[CSL+] News and Announcement - Page 46

Lol so basically the opposing team agrees to two things:

1. No obs
2. All matches played at the same time

Everyone goes to their games, and I am left with iU and crescentia in channel. He says he has a phone call - one that he had been on for about 20 minutes at that point - which goes against what they agreed to do. If you have a phone call and you can't play a game, get DQ'd or send a substitute, I don't care that much I'd let it slide. Don't sit there and tell me that I have to wait for you when I have places to go and things to do because you have some sort of phone call, that's BM.

Then, I host a game for Nexus because neither him nor his opponent could host. iU joins the game. I only wanted to start the game, then leave, because there are no obs. So now this iU character starts arguing with me about why there are no obs, why he can't watch, etc. at which point I've reached my limit because it's very simple - YOUR TEAM AGREED TO NO OBS AND SIMULTANEOUS GAMES. He tries to go against both, which hinders me as well - if he obses this match, I would have to wait another 15 more minutes before our match, and that's bullshit. My friend ate my fucking dinner because I had to wait for this kid to get off his daily parental phone call, so I was hungry all night, and I had to pick up my friend at the bus station - in the rain - and his bus was arriving at 9 pm. Neither of those issues are THAT big, but it's certainly more important than some pussy throwing a fit over me complaining about him not following the decisions set by both teams.

About the pre-game chat, I gave up on reasoning with him (which I did for a while, with manner, by letting him know his team agreed to the conditions that were about to be in this game) and so did Nexus, because either he is braindead or feigned ignorance by continuously ignoring our requests to leave and our explanations. I am not dealing with that shit - I explained to him that the chief reason we were not letting him obs is because we were notified by Phelix (BST.ColdWave, division admin iirc?) that their replays were suspicious - they were reacting too fast to things that they did or did not see. This is by no means a cheating allegation, but it's enough for us to propose a no obs rule. It's interesting that JHU went 2-0 undefeated until we removed obs and played them, and that's when they lost every match they played. It may be true that we just had a superior team, but it's still enough to make me remain suspicious. That's why I said he had to leave because they were cheating faggots - because that's apparently the only line of text that I sent him that night that he understood. He said that he was going to report me for my BM. Are we in fucking kindergarten? OH NO HE SAID A BAD WORD, THIS IS SO UNACCEPTABLE BETWEEN COLLEGE STUDENTS PLAYING A VIDEO GAME. Seriously? I though BM was a standard aspect of pre-game, it's mental war and it's just fun to partake in it and spark some rivalries. Have any of you ever been to a sporting event with fans? If you have, then you know what I mean - opposing players and fanbases are boisterous and talk trash to each other often. I was under the impression that this was similar. Anyway, he left as I was about to ban him and start the game. I start the game, leave at start, and go back to channel.

Now this guy iU who was fine with obsing a game and wasting more of my time, is still on the phone and refuses to play. Finally he agrees to play when I started complaining to crescentia (in a mannered way, because I have no reason to be bm to crescentia; it's iU who was being a douchebag). I host the game and we start. In the first 10 seconds there is so much lag that it is almost a slide-show version of the game, which is why I made the "..." to infer that the situation might need to be amended before the game gets under way so we could rehost and figure things out about lag on either side. It continues to be laggy every other minute or so, choppy at best and flash cards of probes mining minerals at best. My harass required a lot of intensive micro, which as you can imagine is very sensitive to lag. The moment I drop my dark templar in his base after killing 4 overlords, the lag kicks into ultra mode as if he pressed a button (not that I think he did, but still) and he of course reacts perfectly to my surprise DT drop (he thought it would be in another base). I do pretty much no damage, lose my shuttle and 3 DTs and a few sair, all for his 4 overlords. That's a bullshit situation and I felt like letting him know how I feel about it. I never knew that there was no in-game chat in games, I thought that it was only for the livematch Princeton vs. Rutgers. I've chatted with my opponents in other games before and it was no problem for either of us. Combine this admitted misconception with the multiple frustrations I have had to endure due to iU's actions, and I think you have an understandable foundation for frustration to say something like "MUST BE NICE REACTING TO THINGS WITH LAG RIGHT."

I know this e-mail is getting lengthy but I wanted to get the whole story out there, because from the e-mail that I read that was sent by the JHU coordinator, it really makes it seem like my actions were unprovoked and were baseless. This is not the case. I guess you can still do whatever you want to me, as I am not pussy enough to collect evidence against some kid online who is wasting my time so that he can get penalized in a recreational StarCraft league with mostly D+ - C level players. I was under the impression that CSL+'s mission statement was to provide a gaming environment that is beneficial to the player. I guess you can say that me saying "say hi to your mom" is me making the environment negative for him, but... Are we not all mature enough to see through such petty grievances? I'm so sorry if he shed a tear over my trash talk, but what I am seeing here is some Kespa shit - "a person talks during the game, we must penalize him! A person is frustrated due to his time being wasted with no justification, and has uttered a slur! PENALIZE!" It's simply dictatorial BS. The chat doesn't affect the game, if anything it gives him an advantage because I stop doing things to type something out. Chat before game has no physical effect either. Why should CSL+ have the control to punish people for either? I can understand in-game chat at least somewhat, and I admit my grievance in that matter (on the other hand, how are people supposed to decide how to handle difficulties such as latency and rehosting without chatting? broken system). I do not agree with CSL+ having jurisdiction in the other fields, but I am just a player, I don't really have any say in this (sounds reminiscent of the proscene already?).

The bottom line is he wasted my time (which in this case was actually necessary for other things, not just me putting off masturbating for 20 minutes or some shit), made me late to a bunch of shit, made me hungry, and then reported me for being BM about this whole thing. If he had a truly important phone call, or any sort of justification whatsoever beyond "phone call can't play" or whatever, I would understand. As it stands, this is all bullshit. Thanks.

It was adequately said by Astro - "QQ JHU"

Grow a pair.
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I want to say that I never outright said that you guys were definitely cheating - I only went by what I heard, and the no obs measure that we took was sufficient in my eyes. About the "lag hack" - I never said it was anything like that, and I said that it seemed like he pressed a button because that IS what it seemed like - but I knew that it wasn't the case, it was just frustrating. About the lag, I admit I have problems playing with SOME (note: not majority of) people, but a lot of the time it can be fixed by one of us reconnecting to StarCraft/relaunching ICCup launcher. Sometimes it is an ISP issue, which cannot be prevented - just like how you can't join some games due to latency even though neither host nor joining player lag, sometimes it lags in game and cannot be prevented. However, we would have never known if we did not try anything.

Crescentia was in the chatroom, yes, and iU only agreed to play when I started making a complaint to him. That point is void - iU seemed to wait until the last moment to play, which is rude.

Almost everyone had alternate plans for Saturday, and playing simultaneously was a good solution that worked for everyone. I stayed after the game because what happened was my friend had to take MY car in the rain, pick up my other friend from the station, then come back to my house and pick me up so I could drive us to New Brunswick where people were waiting on us. 9 pm should have been a safe time to pick up my friend if the matches started at the appointed time - it WAS planned to be perfect. Also, as I pointed out, my plans were not the only reason for my disapproval of iU's behavior before our match.

I can understand CSL mimicking the Kespa organization, and in many ways this is great for everyone. However, why adopt the policies that have been burdening the proscene, especially in the past year? With the amount of people being put off by Kespa's decisions in terms of chat, recent disqualifications and punishments, I thought we could be wise and learn from the mistakes of others, not having to make them ourselves. Situations like these are what makes Kespa into Gespa, in other words what makes their actions bullshit.

As for the in-game chat rules, I think you missed the point in which I expressly admitted to the fault and have no intention of refuting that fact. However, I have also presented the point of view which sees the system as broken and meaningless. That is an opinion, albeit a realistic one - it has no sway over what is the actuality of the situation or the rules/decisions the CSL staff chooses to implement, like I said "I'm just a player, I have no say in this [sic]."

In terms of what you accuse Clazz of doing, as if it somehow tarnishes his good reputation that he had with you and as if I am a bad influence on him forcing him to partake in shunning this rather childish display of fake tears, I am relatively sure that Clazz is acting on his own behalf. Just as subjective as you are in thinking that his (and Kishan's, and mine) are inappropriate, we are equally subjectively justified in thinking the actions of your team were inappropriate. Why did Clazz not kick Moment out of his game? Probably because he would rather not deal with your team and you, mainly due to the presence of this shit we are dealing with now. I guess it was inescapable when you have people who seem to be doing anything in their power to irritate you by not following the decisions set out by the team (whether or not they were ignorant of these rules is irrelevant, as I and Clazz told the offending parties in a reasonable manner that the decisions had been made already), by delaying games because of a trivial phone call that has yet to be justified, and by paying a deaf ear to our words until we lose patience and utter a slurr. This is a typical elementary school scene - kids are playing a game that everyone understands and cooperates with, but there is one person who has to try to have things his way as if he's the boss, then when the rest of the children shun him for it, first by denying his authority to change things for everyone and then by calling him names when he refuses to listen, the kid puts on a sad face and releases a few tears in front of the teacher and everyone gets punished for it. Like I said before, grow a pair. Instead of crying about how I had to wait almost 30 minutes for my match, how I had to do this and that late thereby inconveniencing more people than iU probably talks to on a weekly basis, I only made one tentative complaint right before the DQ time was about to hit to clarify the situation, and never brought it up again afterward. I was sick of this teary-eyed routine back in 2nd grade, yet some people seem to abide by it like a savior throughout the entirety helicopter-parent-induced lives.

Let's summarize the situation at hand in regards to my match, for the benefit of everybody:

1. JHU and Rutgers agree to the terms for their matches. 2 of JHU's members were late by their own choice, because clearly a practice match is more important than being prompt and courteous to their opponents by arriving on time. They did not know the conditions set forth.

2. iU sat on the phone, AFTER his practice match, for still unmentioned reasons and for at the time an indeterminable time. He however is willing to obs the games of others. I jokingly say "say hello to your mom," in relation to his phone call, because I have to accommodate his lack of consideration for others.

3. iU refuses to leave the game after being told multiple times that there is no obsing by myself and Kishan. My patience wears thin and I make public the suspicions we have of their team and why the measures that need to be taken are appropriate, and I also say that the team is comprised of "cheating faggots." iU then leaves the game, after telling us he will make a complaint.

4. I tell iU to make the complaint to his mom, once again referring to the phone call that is STILL GOING ON. I wait for iU to give a sign of being ready to join our game but he does not respond. I begin making my complaint to crescentia. Somehow iU's phone call is over right when this is happening and he joins the game.

5. There is extreme lag in the opening moments and I type in "..." in order to evoke a response from the opponent so that we could structure a rematch or try to fix the lag otherwise. I later reach the limit of my patience with the lag and I say that it must be nice being able to react to my harass due to the lag.

6. iU takes selective screen caps of all of this and sends a complaint.

Lol? Are you really so petty? Please.
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Also, if you want to be anal about chat in game, I have replays of people talking in multiple games, both players and observers and organizers. Do we really want to open this can of worms over such minor bullshit, or should we realize that such rules are pretty bullshit in general? Nothing I said had any impact on the game, isn't that what matters? I don't like picking names but if you will make this molehill into a mountain, I will make this argument into a war. I will expect the proper punishments to be handed out to everyone who has ever offended this rule in all of the matches that were played in CSL, because it would be simply unjust to be selective about it. If we get losses for our matches, I expect all previous matches with talking in them to be considered losses as well. If I get disqualified, I expect the same for everyone else.

OR we can stop counting pennies and picking at scraps like rats and realize that this is all laughably stupid.
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One more thing: I can't help but wonder what the motivation of your complaint e-mail was (I guess this is more addressed to the players in question, not the organizer - it is Hao-Min's responsibility to represent the concerns of his players and therefore I can't incriminate him in this). In my eyes there are only 3 options:

1. You really want to win. Should have practiced more, preferably not into our match time though.

2. You really got offended. Since when do people's feelings get hurt on the internet? Have you never played public games? Do you get upset every time someone calls you a noob or fag or something? Prioritize your influences.

3. You are trying to punish us by using the rules. We beat you, so why not eye-for-an-eye and make it so that you either win or so that the offending players can't play in the future? Like Gandhi said, at this rate the whole world will be blind. If you think of us as such moral inferiors to you, why do you stoop to our level? We gave you a few lines of admittedly insulting lines, you give me over an hour of explaining and arguing with others and a potential punishment for my actions. Is this equal repayment in your eyes or something? Rules are only as broken as they are abused, and justice is no longer justice when such disproportionate measures are taken over petty grievances. How about you cut off my arm for stealing bread, or stone my future wife for not wearing a veil?
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I will offer no apology for my justified behavior. You can't handle name calling for your actions? That's unfortunate, you must have a hard life, or a sheltered one. And no, people SHOULDN'T get offended over the internet, because you don't know me and I don't know you, thus all of our words should be meaningless to one another once they enter a spiteful spectrum.

The games are played simultaneously. You came late and did not know that, I can understand that now. We told you multiple times after that, however, that it was time to play as was decided by both teams. You did not see it fitting to follow our decision, and instead continued a phone call that was clearly made AFTER your practice game (since you can't play and talk at the same time). I expect at least a viable reason for you delaying our match despite the decision made by the organizers of both teams, something more than "I am on the phone." Phone calls can be optional or mandatory - is it your friend who wants to hang out later or is it your sibling telling you that your parents god forbid were in a car crash? There are different variations of the situation, and you did not make it clear when you will be done talking, whether or not it is something worth wasting my time for, or anything of that manner. Good sportsmanship is not what YOU did either, and I repaid you in full for that.

It was not the matter of you being up for game 2 or observing a game before it - it was your resistance to our saying that BOTH of those things were unacceptable. When you responded you made it seem like you didn't pay attention to what we said, and when you didn't respond I assume you were talking on the phone, which is inappropriate given the fact that we were trying to play our games and you were hindering that process with your continued ignorance. I don't know whether you just didn't believe us (which is foolish considering you weren't there for the decision being made, which is once again your fault but I can understand that) or if you just ignored us due to your conversation, but I did not feel like being good-natured about the whole situation after I had to deal with that kind of behavior.

Impatiently whined? A few minutes? I'm sorry, it must not seem like a lot of time for you, but 20-30 minutes of just sitting in front of the computer while my friend ate my food in the next room waiting for me to finish because you chose to delay the match is not just a few minutes. On top of that, I didn't say ANYTHING for the first 10-15 minutes about the situation until it became evident that you were selfishly continuing a phone conversation without any justification. Upon finding this out my patience wore thin and I let you know about it. Then I helped my teammate and yours to play a match, and then I had to wait on you after that and the obs debacle. Then I lost my patience after you did not respond to my offer to join a game, and I started making a formal complaint to crescentia. There was no "whining" involved. That's what YOU are doing right now, crying about how your feelings got hurt over the internet. Maybe you have low self-esteem or don't take criticism well, but like I said above, if I don't know you then why should my words affect you? I don't care about sportsmanship when you present the kind of behavior you did. In the past, for example in our match vs. CMU, there was trash talk on both sides pre-game, but everyone was in understanding that it was a joke. Then post-game everyone was on good terms and we left it at that. Why this was an issue for you I don't understand, especially considering your actions prior to the conflict.

If we were rude in asking you to leave, by the way, it must have been in your own admittedly skewed observation, because clearly you did not see fit to screen cap that part of the conversation. I recall both myself and Nexus blankly telling you that you cannot obs because that is what has been agreed upon, and then due to your lack of reaction to these words and later your resistance to the measures that were already agreed upon, things started to heat up.

I didn't think for a fact that you were a cheater or a hacker, don't skew my words to fit your argument. We were tipped off by a coordinator that your actions MIGHT be suspicious, and therefore we took the appropriate measures, without incriminating anyone until I had to point-blank tell you so you would leave the game. The lag thing was just the way it SEEMED, I never stated it to be fact, and I don't know of a "lag hack" either. Whining just because you lost seems closer to home because I really can't wrap my mind around the fact that you got upset over some words during an internet game. I hope you never get fired or told off by your parents, because I can imagine you will be a wreck over a real life situation if this is the magnitude of the effect that I've had upon you.
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Lol yea you sure show your maturity by backing out of the argument playing the holier-than-thou card. I presented valid arguments on all the situations, and I did accept that I violated a rule set forth by CSL+. You have also yet to admit any fault for your actions. Your coordinator made a decision you can't handle? Tough, don't make me suffer for it - either disqualify yourself or deal with your organizer.

Let me tell you something about maturity, if you have enough to be reading this e-mail. You think you are "mature" because you can see the faults in my behavior. Maturity is seeing faults in your own behavior as well. Your pretentious assessment of me because of my reaction to YOUR disrespect is laughable at best. I have accomplished things in my life that you would never be capable of doing, and I am sure you have done things that I couldn't fathom as well. However, until you own a home and pay for your own rent and food out of the money that you painstakingly earned 5 days a week, don't talk to me about being mature. You're a kid, going to school either racking up debt on your loans or having your parents pave your way to a successful future. You have no idea what being an adult, or being mature is. Your sensitive response to the situation, be it against the rules or not, is clear evidence of this. So, please, gently pull your head out of your ass and stop thinking that you are 2 years ahead of me on some maturity timeline. It makes your whole argument look pathetic and weak, like your emotional fortitude apparently. By backing out of this, you have painted yourself as the immature person unable to deal with the consequences of his actions. I don't care for another game with you, my manner was never a reflection of our game, it was a reflection of your behavior. We had an interesting game, and that's that. There is no need for a rematch.

Mona, I don't know what "tasteful" bad manner is, but I know for sure that I won't be partaking in any of it when I am forced into a situation such as this one, I hope you understand. However I find it highly unlikely that anyone will be nearly as inconsiderate to me as Billy. I think that circumstantial evidence helped your decision, and I applaud you for that. I agree with your decision and I will be more aware of my behavior in-game in the future; as I said before, it was a misunderstanding due to the unique nature of the first CSL+ match I played in, and it won't be a problem in the future.