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On August 23 2009 11:52 mog87 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2009 11:45 Musoeun wrote:On August 23 2009 11:03 ghostWriter wrote:
Jaedong to woongjin would be awful.
It's a good thing that the good teams can't afford him. Jaedong on Kt, Sktt1 or khan would imbalance progaming so badly. Why would JD to Stars be so bad? Apart from making the Stars relevant and OZ suck, it really wouldn't change anything significant. IMO Stars on paper would still be weaker than at least SK and KHAN. Of course, that's why we play the games. On paper not really... Free, Zero, Jaedong, piano Fantasy,Bisu,best, canata FBH, Jangbi, Stork, great
Wait, what? By "on paper" I mean assuming the players play to potential.
Assuming JD to Stars:
SK vs Woongjin: Jaedong/Bisu is a toss-up, even with JD going all golden mouse on us. fantasy >>>>> free, Canata and Zero I put about equal - Zero's got more up side but Canata's looking better now. BeSt - good BeSt - beats Piano - even good Piano - hollow, despite the vs Z thing.
SK's weakness is the Zerg line, but Bisu/fantasy/Canata or BeSt/some Zerg will take 4 of 10 matches outright and 8 out of 10 to ace if necessary. JD/free/Zero/Piano I'd say only take 2 or 3 of 10 matches in four games and only 7 or so go to ace.
KHAN vs Woongjin: Jaedong > KHAN, but apart from that Stork > free (except against Z), Jangbi > free (ditto), fbh > Piano (except against P, probably). Zero is much better potentially but way streakier than great.
This is a lot closer, but I think that where KHAN has Stork/Jangbi/fbh favored to win (assuming good play) most of the time, hypothetical Stars only have JD/one of free and Zero. Which is good enough to take games to ace, but not good enough to close it out all the time. IIRC, OZ played about 15 ace matches, or 4 per round, while KHAN was more like 3 per round. (Of course, KHAN lost more too...)
Of course, the wild card in all this is that hypothetical Stars looks better than current OZ, suggesting that they really would >> SK and KHAN.
I dunno - but I really just think this would substitute Stars for OZ in the standings.
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Soooo any updates on Jaedong?
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just wanted to say that Free can't beat samsung protoss to save his life, no offense to Yoon yong Tae but facts are facts
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On August 24 2009 03:45 StorrZerg wrote:
Soooo any updates on Jaedong?
2 more days until we know
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People are ignoring Guemchi when considering stars' lineup for some reason (he's much more impressive than piano/mvp/ganzi).
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On August 24 2009 03:53 sixghost wrote:2 more days until we know
sweet thanks
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I think Oz should really consider buying some new flesh to share the Jaedong's PL burden ... Or else, if next season is gonna be another version of this one, Lee Jaedong is gonna die at the age of 30, no kidding.
Assuming that JD will stay, of course.
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On August 24 2009 04:09 nayumi wrote:
I think Oz should really consider buying some new flesh to share the Jaedong's PL burden ... Or else, if next season is gonna be another version of this one, Lee Jaedong is gonna die at the age of 30, no kidding.
Assuming that JD will stay, of course.
well if they won't pay jaedong more than stx pays Calm why would they hire someone else for dirt cheap?
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On August 24 2009 04:03 Nevuk wrote:
People are ignoring Guemchi when considering stars' lineup for some reason (he's much more impressive than piano/mvp/ganzi).
Him being more impressive isn't too relevant since Stars would have to play a Terran, they couldn't go JD/Zero/Free/GuemChi.
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On August 23 2009 08:08 (paladin)roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2009 07:50 sixghost wrote:On August 22 2009 22:11 (paladin)roMAD wrote:
Light told me that Jaedong would either join WeMade, Woongjin, STX or stay at OZ, as Samsung, KT and SKT dont have enough money to afford him. Meanwhile Guemchi also told me that Jaedong to Woongjin is quite possible. Is that true about Samsung/kt/skt? STX seems like the last place he would go. They just handed out a ton of money to hwasin/calm, and they already have a ton of zergs. That's what Light told me. He said that the companies are rich but proteams themselves dont have much money to spend.
I find this interesting, haven't SKT and KT bought quite a few players in the past?
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On August 24 2009 04:03 Nevuk wrote:
People are ignoring Guemchi when considering stars' lineup for some reason (he's much more impressive than piano/mvp/ganzi).
Except he doesn't play terran.
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anxious to see who picks up go.go.
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On August 24 2009 14:22 Jaksiel wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2009 08:08 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On August 23 2009 07:50 sixghost wrote:On August 22 2009 22:11 (paladin)roMAD wrote:
Light told me that Jaedong would either join WeMade, Woongjin, STX or stay at OZ, as Samsung, KT and SKT dont have enough money to afford him. Meanwhile Guemchi also told me that Jaedong to Woongjin is quite possible. Is that true about Samsung/kt/skt? STX seems like the last place he would go. They just handed out a ton of money to hwasin/calm, and they already have a ton of zergs. That's what Light told me. He said that the companies are rich but proteams themselves dont have much money to spend. I find this interesting, haven't SKT and KT bought quite a few players in the past?
Which is why they can't afford it. SKT has the payroll on Bisu Best and Fantasy, factor in star power wages on Oov and Boxer and they've already got a massive budget foregoing their back up team.
KT is similar. While they don't have as much actual performing talent, Flash/Forgg/Luxury can't be cheap, and they might have to end up raising Violet's wages if he doesn't begin failing as bad as he used to.
The only way I could see them spending cash on Jaedong is because they've both dropped a player. If you devote old money from either Shine or Midas, and beg your company for some more, they might be able to splurge on Jaedong. But at this point, both teams are probably feeling comfortable on their next year proleague chances, so they don't NEED Jaedong to bring the hype for their team, and thus pro bono advertisement. Woongjin, mbc, et al do need the boost to get them to the playoffs, so it might not be an unwise investment.
This is still a business. The only reason to really break bank to get Jaedong is to get into the PL finals. If you're confident your current team can do that, why lose money on something you aren't sure is gonna return it?
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On August 24 2009 15:08 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2009 14:22 Jaksiel wrote:On August 23 2009 08:08 (paladin)roMAD wrote:On August 23 2009 07:50 sixghost wrote:On August 22 2009 22:11 (paladin)roMAD wrote:
Light told me that Jaedong would either join WeMade, Woongjin, STX or stay at OZ, as Samsung, KT and SKT dont have enough money to afford him. Meanwhile Guemchi also told me that Jaedong to Woongjin is quite possible. Is that true about Samsung/kt/skt? STX seems like the last place he would go. They just handed out a ton of money to hwasin/calm, and they already have a ton of zergs. That's what Light told me. He said that the companies are rich but proteams themselves dont have much money to spend. I find this interesting, haven't SKT and KT bought quite a few players in the past? Which is why they can't afford it. SKT has the payroll on Bisu Best and Fantasy, factor in star power wages on Oov and Boxer and they've already got a massive budget foregoing their back up team. KT is similar. While they don't have as much actual performing talent, Flash/Forgg/Luxury can't be cheap, and they might have to end up raising Violet's wages if he doesn't begin failing as bad as he used to. The only way I could see them spending cash on Jaedong is because they've both dropped a player. If you devote old money from either Shine or Midas, and beg your company for some more, they might be able to splurge on Jaedong. But at this point, both teams are probably feeling comfortable on their next year proleague chances, so they don't NEED Jaedong to bring the hype for their team, and thus pro bono advertisement. Woongjin, mbc, et al do need the boost to get them to the playoffs, so it might not be an unwise investment. This is still a business. The only reason to really break bank to get Jaedong is to get into the PL finals. If you're confident your current team can do that, why lose money on something you aren't sure is gonna return it?
Well ... this is a business. From a cynical/realistic standpoint, I think the "only" reason to break bank is to make more bank in return. Perhaps major Korean corporations feel that it's necessary to sponsor an SC team because it's kind of a "we are a big player" statement, but don't care TOO much about the results as long as the team is not a laughingstock (and maybe not even then...).
PL finals is nice but maybe market research (or lack thereof) has shown that it doesn't really make a huge difference on the bottom line. I suppose the key is to get more fans because fans might be more likely to prefer a product - getting to the finals must help with that so there is some potential correlation.
Ironically, having said all that, I do fully believe Jaedong is worth a MEGA contract. I think if SC were a more developed business like a pro sport in America, teams would be looking at the JD free agency the same way NBA teams look at LeBron, or MLB teams looked at ARod back in 2001. Like LeBron and ARod, Jaedong is a superduper mega talent who at the time of his free agency has a great chance of going down as the greatest player of all time (just like ARod looked like he would break the HR record ... this was pre-roids of course, and LeBron currently still looks like he fits the part). In fact, JD actually wins championships so in that sense he's even better, haha. If it weren't for SC2, I would put his chances of winning a 4th OSL at over 50%, but even now I give him a good chance to get one of the next two (the last two that I think will come out before SC2). Not saying that SC2 kills BW, but it's hard to speculate beyond that as to what will happen.
It's times like this that, even though I'm a CJ fan, I wish KT wasn't so retarded. For a team that has been wasting arguably the greatest natural talent in SC (Flash's age 15 run may well never be topped) and has been notorious for coming up short, breaking the bank for JD is the highest probability move to change years and years of built up association between KTF Starcraft and failure. All jokes about KT ruining players aside, isn't KT automatically a top 2 team in SC? I would argue they're the safe bet for #1 in the regular season, as both JD and Flash are monsters on every given day whereas Fantasy hasn't proven that he can do that. Also I'll put my money on ForGG/Lux/Violet over Best/Canata/some Zerg any day of the week. Also, doesn't the likelihood of multiple KT players rolling through the individual leagues go up a ton?
The baller play by KT would be to make a move for JD and reinvent themselves as a true challenger to the premier SC franchise (which is undoubtedly SKT1). But I'm guessing management there isn't paid well to take chances, but rather to come up with awful names. Oh well.
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@darktreb. Nada and Calm got the same amount of money. I think it's safe to say that "star quality" is much more important than actual performance. As I'm not Korean, I can only guess that perhaps Jaedong just doesn't attract enough fanboys and fangirls to warrant the mega-bucks like 200 million won. Which is what players like Savior and Nada easily made during their heydays.
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EPT
