• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:20
CEST 14:20
KST 21:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play1Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8
Community News
[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation05.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start)78ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo36Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611
StarCraft 2
General
Is the larve respawn broken? The future of the SC game model 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser
Tourneys
Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles#17 <BO.9> Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery Mutation # 530 One For All Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Best thing happen to StarCraft since Remastered? Fact based Zerg Upgrade Tier List BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Grand Finals The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL22] GosuLeague Casts - Tue & Thu 22:00 CEST
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
McBoner: A hockey love story 2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Listen To The Coaches!
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 11669 users

Ampere's Law and the Displacement Current

Blogs > micronesia
Post a Reply
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24779 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-19 01:25:39
June 19 2010 01:22 GMT
#1
This a brief discussion about Ampere's Law and why Maxwell added a term for the 'Displacement Current' to a seemingly perfect formula.


When electricity flows in a wire, it produces a magnetic field. You can easily look up pictures online of the direction of a magnetic field around a straight wire. Calculating the magnitude is a bit more tricky.

The most basic way to calculate he magnetic field is to use the Bio-Savart law, which is basically just the integral you have to solve to get the magnetic field for a 'continuous current distribution.' It's the analogue to using E = integral[k*dq/r^2] to find the electric field near a continuous charge distribution. The problem is that this integral (bio-savart) is ugly and/or impossible to solve for most problems aside from the easy ones.

During a chapter on static electricity you learn about how you can use Gauss' Law instead of the big integral associated with Coulomb's Law for solving some problems that have a high degree of symmetry. This is often a great shortcut. The analogue to that for magnetic fields is that you can use Ampere's Law to find the magnetic field near currents (provided the appropriate symmetry and whatnot). For Gauss' law you imagine a closed surface wrapped around a charge distribution and relate the electric flux passing through the surface to the amount of charge inside the surface. For Ampere's law instead of creating a closed surface you create a closed curve.

Way to think about a closed surface: an empty plastic bag that is stitched closed to have no opening with a charge distribution placed inside it.

Way to think about a closed curve/loop: a string with both ends tied together to make a circle or similar shape. This actually creates an 'open' surface. Think of a normal plastic bag with a draw-string at the top/opening. In order for current to pass through the bag it needs to pass through the loop of the string AND it needs to bust through a hole in the bag somehow (similar to how electric field lines pass through the closed surface) otherwise the current would get trapped by the bag, which would be pretty depressing for the current since it just got trapped by a bag which doesn't actually exist.

Of course for Gauss' and Ampere's Law there is no actual surface or loop near the charge/current distribution... it is just an imaginary construct placed to allow us to use the simple formulas. To use Ampere's law you place the closed curve around the current so that the string lines up parallel to the magnetic field. The current passes 'through' the loop of the string, like a beam of water being shot through a ring of fire... or something like that. Now you can mathematically relate the amount of current passing through the loop to the strength of the magnetic field where the 'string' of the loop is. If you want to know the magnitude of the magnetic field near the current you need to make a loop with a small radius; if you want to know the magnetic field further from the wire you need to make a loop with a bigger radius.

Ampere's Law, u0*I = closed_int[B*dl] works great for simple examples such as a long, straight wire. There is a flaw, however, that Maxwell discovered (and integrated into his more complete 'Maxwell's Equations')

Imagine a capacitor. Current flows through a wire into one plate of the capacitor, and then an equal current flows away from the other plate through another wire. Since there is current flow there is a magnetic field, and while the capacitor is still mostly uncharged it behaves mostly like a closed switch. Let's attempt to use Ampere's Law to find the magnetic field produced by the wire leading into the first plate. We take our closed curve (string) and wrap it around the wire a fixed distance (radius) away. You basically just have to do [u_0 * I / circumference_of_loop] in order to find the strength of the magnetic field. But Maxwell discovered a way to make this 'break.' He placed his closed loop in the same place but imagined the open surface it created (open plastic bag) to be positioned so that the first plate of the capacitor was inside the bag. The bottom of the bag was positioned between the two plates so that no hole needed to be punched in the plastic bag. Looks sorta like this:

[image loading]
Image Courtesy of Glider*

You can see that the closed loop (orange) wraps around the current without any problem, but the open surface (green) it creates is stretched so that the wire doesn't cut through it (this is a 2d depiction but is really a 3d situation so beware). If the current doesn't cut through the open surface then according to Ampere's Law there should be no magnetic field... but if you choose to use a smaller 'plastic bag' then the wire will cut through the bottom of the bag. How could the size of the imaginary bag affect how much current passes through the closed loop? Maxwell realized that Ampere's Law was wrong. His solution? Add a new term to the equation until it works for all situations regardless of how the open surface is chosen.

The Displacement Current: I_d = e_0 * d E_flux / dt

The fact that charge was building up on the capacitor plates means that an electric field is being produced steadily... and you have to take that into account when trying to use Ampere's Law to calculate the induced magnetic field. In Ampere's Law, where 'I' appears, Maxwell said substitute in I+I_d where 'I' is the current being carried by a wire/etc, called the conduction current, and I_d is the displacement current which only comes into play when there is a changing electric field penetrating the open surface of the closed loop.


This has been just a brief attempt to make clear some aspects of how to calculate magnetic fields being induced by currents before and after Maxwell added the Displacement Current to Ampere's Law. There was no major attempt to help the reader understand the mathematics behind using Ampere's Law to begin with (it's simple to solve algebraically, but a bit difficult to set up perhaps). Since each reader has a different background with this material it will probably come across as confusing (vocab, assumptions, etc) for some people and elementary and obvious to others... but oh well. If any notation, names, etc are confusing please ask!

*Just kidding. Glider couldn't make an image look this bad if he tried :p

*****
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Count9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China10928 Posts
June 19 2010 01:27 GMT
#2
If you're gonna post physics equations please please please please please use Latex image for equations... please.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24779 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-06-19 01:29:01
June 19 2010 01:28 GMT
#3
On June 19 2010 10:27 Count9 wrote:
If you're gonna post physics equations please please please please please use Latex image for equations... please.

I don't actually know how to do that so advice would be appreciated. Now keep in mind I purposefully am de-emphasizing equations in this description and they are there in a few instances just to make clear the readers are able to confirm they know which things I am actually talking about.

edit: not sure why you are making such a big deal out of this though...
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Myrmidon
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
United States9452 Posts
June 19 2010 01:33 GMT
#4
Well, the easiest way would be to just typeset the whole thing in LaTeX and then publish a pdf and link that. The equations were hard enough for me to read, and I had studied them before. I really don't want to complain though, as you don't have an obligation to obey our every whims.
Bibbit
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada5377 Posts
June 19 2010 01:35 GMT
#5
I was actually just noticing earlier how, at some point during my time here at TL, I just started to accept you and Kwark as super geniuses without ever really consciously thinking about it. I guess its things like this that made me come to that realization.
crate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2474 Posts
June 19 2010 01:35 GMT
#6
I'm not sure I'd say that the displacement current was added to a "seemingly perfect formula". There was no experimental reason to doubt that Ampere's Law (which is derived from the magnetostatic case) carried over to the dynamic case--simply because of the magnitude of the effect--but the theoretical problems (both the one you mention and the fact that without the displacement current Maxwell's equations can't be correct because the divergence of the curl of B is not generally zero like it has to be for a well-behaved vector field) show that it's not so perfect.

Granted I'm not sure how developed vector calculus was back 100 years ago but....

---

I don't see a problem with the equations in this topic. They seem to be presented for completeness more than for clarity.

If you wanted to turn them into images you could write them up in LaTeX and then build the .tex, then screenshot, crop the screenshot, and host it somewhere. There's likely a simpler way as well (heh) but I'm not familiar with any.

---

Can't really comment too much on the presentation because it's pretty easy to understand when you have seen the argument before and know where it's going. :p
We did. You did. Yes we can. No. || http://crawl.akrasiac.org/scoring/players/crate.html || twitch.tv/crate3333
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32278 Posts
June 19 2010 01:43 GMT
#7
On June 19 2010 10:35 Bibbit wrote:
I was actually just noticing earlier how, at some point during my time here at TL, I just started to accept you and Kwark as super geniuses without ever really consciously thinking about it. I guess its things like this that made me come to that realization.


Actually micronesia is really bad at physics.

He makes great jokes though!
Moderator<:3-/-<
ptell
Profile Joined October 2009
United States103 Posts
June 19 2010 01:53 GMT
#8
Micronesia, you can use this website to generate latex equation in picture form.
http://www.codecogs.com/latex/eqneditor.php
DeathByMonkeys
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States742 Posts
June 19 2010 03:04 GMT
#9
Good stuff man, I'm actually doing this exact stuff right now in my class I'm taking this summer. Coulomb's and Gauss' Laws and what not. I haven't quite got to Ampere's and Maxwell's Laws yet, but soon I'd imagine. This will probably give me a good understanding of what's going on from a conceptual point of view when I do start them.
n.DieJokes
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3443 Posts
June 19 2010 04:04 GMT
#10
I am so disappointed someone gave this one star. Thanks for the review, would have been even better early this may ^.^
MyLove + Your Love= Supa Love
Kentor *
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5784 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-26 23:31:28
August 26 2010 23:28 GMT
#11
I didn't get what my professor was talking about at all today (first day of school :\) so I googled

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=ampere's law maxwell term

and there was a link to this page. Thanks a lot for explaining why Ampere's law fails in the situation with the capacitor, the picture helped out. I still don't understand maxwell's term though and why it is what it is :p
AoN.DimSum
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States2983 Posts
August 27 2010 00:27 GMT
#12
huh interesting topic. thanks for sharing!

funny how it turns up on google :D
by my idol krokkis : "U better hope Finland wont have WCG next year and that I wont gain shitloads of skill, cause then I will wash ur mouth with soap, little man."
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24779 Posts
August 29 2010 02:08 GMT
#13
On August 27 2010 08:28 Kentor wrote:
I didn't get what my professor was talking about at all today (first day of school :\) so I googled

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=ampere's law maxwell term

and there was a link to this page. Thanks a lot for explaining why Ampere's law fails in the situation with the capacitor, the picture helped out. I still don't understand maxwell's term though and why it is what it is :p

Wow that's pretty crazy hahaha
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 40m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech175
MindelVK 35
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 44379
Calm 11217
Mini 1106
Jaedong 768
EffOrt 406
Soma 338
BeSt 274
Light 208
Last 186
Mong 172
[ Show more ]
Hyun 169
Zeus 106
ggaemo 104
JYJ 87
Rush 78
Pusan 62
Sea.KH 34
GoRush 25
Hm[arnc] 25
sorry 20
zelot 17
Sacsri 16
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
Purpose 11
Noble 9
Terrorterran 3
Dota 2
Gorgc4527
XaKoH 488
XcaliburYe294
Counter-Strike
pashabiceps1230
kRYSTAL_131
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King79
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor235
Other Games
B2W.Neo1509
crisheroes275
Hui .271
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream7253
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 14
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 46
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP26
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 703
League of Legends
• Lourlo652
Upcoming Events
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
1h 40m
Mihu vs TBD
Online Event
2h 40m
RSL Revival
13h 40m
WardiTV Weekly
22h 40m
RSL Revival
1d 21h
RSL Revival
2 days
Bombastic Starleague
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
OSC
3 days
CrankTV Team League
3 days
[ Show More ]
Bombastic Starleague
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
HomeStory Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
HomeStory Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
HomeStory Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
Maestros of the Game 2
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
SCTL 2026 Spring
Douyu Cup 2026
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026

Upcoming

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
ASL Season 22:Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
BCC 2026
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E1
Heroes Pulsing #3
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.