• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:25
CET 00:25
KST 08:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy7ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool48Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open RSL Season 4 announced for March-April
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
Gypsy to Korea RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site KK Platform will provide 1 million CNY ASL21 General Discussion mca64Launcher - New Version with StarCraft: Remast
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2026 Changsha Offline Cup [ASL21] Ro24 Group B [ASL21] Ro24 Group A
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Darkest Dungeon General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1813 users

Warcraft 2 and Starcraft

Blogs > StRyKeR
Post a Reply
StRyKeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States1739 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-22 05:29:22
February 22 2010 05:17 GMT
#1
Let me share a perspective as a former die-hard War2 fan.

Many of you have probably never played the game. Heck, many of you are probably wondering "uhh is that like War3?" War2 was an amazing game for its time. Back in 1995, it was the most popular RTS game.

This was before Battle.net, so people had to use Kali to play other people. I never used Kali myself (could never get parents to buy it) but I can remember the days when I used to connect dial-up to a friend and play 1v1 for hours.

There was no progaming scene, there were no major tournaments, and there was no teamliquid equivalent. But it was my obsession back in grade school. I would "mod" the game by changing up unit stats and playing my own version of War2. I would try obsessively to beat my friend, who always kicked my ass.

Players were dedicated. Thankfully, some of them happened to be programmers and legit modding tools became available. Once I found PUDDraft, I could not live without it. It allowed me to place custom doodads, edit the missiles fired by units, and a whole lot of other things. It was everything that a map editor should have had. I still remember the creator's name -- Alexander Ceche. I was a huge fan.

All these developments were happening, and then Starcraft was released.

It was like War2, but with better graphics, better sound, one extra race, and Battle.net.

I can recollect my first time playing it. I was Terran and I moved some marines around.

"Marines. Big deal."

My fear that War2 would fade into oblivion forced me to ignore it. "Starcraft is cool, but Warcraft 2 is my favorite game."

I soon moved to Korea, and because War2 wasn't equipped with Battle.net, I couldn't play with my friend in the states anymore. I was basically forced to quit War2.

In that time, however, I did pick up Starcraft. It was the cyber boom in Korea. PC-bangs everywhere, shitty economy a la IMF crisis. If you were a male in Korea circa 1999 and you didn't know Starcraft, you weren't awake. I was Terran and I played the game tirelessly.

After all those years, War2 still had a special place in my heart. When I heard that War2 Battle.net addition was going to come out, I was ecstatic. When I was back in the states in 2000, I started War2 gaming again.

Battle.net revived War2 like no other. It was as if the dormant passions of War2 players suddenly awoke all at once. I could play the game with anyone in the world. Like USEast Starcraft servers, War2 was mostly filled with 3v3 BGH-type maps. I joined a clan. I racked up a lot of games. The ladder, as always, was corrupt and hacking was rampant. Organizations started hosting tourneys.

In any case, it got me back in the game. I made new PUDs, new unit statistics, new everything. Some independent programmers would eventually develop replays for the game. Yea, War2 never had replays. You could never watch or share your awesome games with anyone. I would always be on the lookout for the next piece of modding tool so I can try out some new things.

But new things stopped happening. Development stopped.

Alexander Ceche had stopped making updates a long time ago. The community reached its peak and started dwindling. There were no longer pages of games to choose from on Battle.net. No more clans vying for position and trash-talking each other, only a few random UMS games and maybe a few 2v2s. 3v3s were impossible to fill.

Truth be told, War2 was deficient on many levels. In the Battle.net edition, Blizzard added an extra speed that was faster than before. That made the game incredibly hard to play accurately. Micro was near impossible. Also, Orcs had Bloodlust which was just ridiculously overpowered.

Luckily, by the time War2 was truly fading, I was into Starcraft. It was the new awesome favorite game. Then War3 came out. We hated it. We were the older sibling and War3 was the newborn. It got all the attention. Soon, SC would very rarely get updates and Battle.net was abandoned by Blizzard. But we stayed on because, simply, SC was a better game.

The release of SC2 reminds me of all these things. War2 is now an old shell of what it used to be. The only remnants are a few players on private servers and still-die-hard fans posting once in a while about the game on Starcraft forums trying to get more players interested. War2 was a great game for its time. Starcraft turned out to be better. War3 was unable to replace Starcraft. What about SC2?

At least back then, there was no centralized "go to" place for War2 news. People migrated slowly, if at all. People like me still hanging on which kept the exodus from accelerating too quickly. Now we have teamliquid, all the streams, and information that spreads like wildfire.

Will SC's fire dim to embers only to be found sporadically in SC2 forums, to make people aware of "this awesome game you should check out"? Will it fade to darkness as quickly as War2 only to be revived with a Battle.net 2.0 upgrade? It seems like yesterday when all the top players were competing fiercely for titles in SC and developers trying hard to make mods and tools to analyze replays.

War2 went through a number of stages before demise.
1) Loss of Battle.net players
2) Loss of clans
3) Loss of tournaments
4) Loss of Blizzard support
5) Loss of 3rd party development
6) Loss of community websites

I'm seeing some of these symptoms from SC already.
1) We'll have to see if ICCup user count diminishes.
2) Clans have definitely been thinning out.
3) Tournaments might still stay alive, if only because of Korea.
4) Blizzard has already stopped.
5) MasterOfChaos?
6) Teamliquid! The SC2 section is huge and will soon overtake everything.

I got over War2. Maybe I'll get over SC.

*****
Ars longa, vita brevis, principia aeturna.
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
February 22 2010 05:24 GMT
#2
Good read, but I think people are getting a little TOO prepared to ditch sc. Melee did survive brawl and BW might do the same who knows.

Of course if SC2 exceeds BW in terms of a game then yeah people will switch, like in the case of people transferring from War2 to SC. However if it doesn't exceed BW, we will probably have a regression back to BW.

Reading all these blogs makes me realize that competitive gaming really has nothing to do with the game, it's all about who is playing what.
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
February 22 2010 05:25 GMT
#3
I played war2 as well but didn't really remember the war2 -> sc transition.

I was a bit too young to really remember how that transition went but maybe the sc -> sc2 will work out the same sort of way.

I hope so!
Foreplay
Profile Joined May 2008
United States1154 Posts
February 22 2010 05:34 GMT
#4
i hope you're right
Better than Pokebunny
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
February 22 2010 05:37 GMT
#5
Seems like a fairly insightful post. I'll have to look into wc2 some
NeoOmega
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States495 Posts
February 22 2010 05:44 GMT
#6
I love old stories. And I hope Sc1 doesnt die. I havn't been able to play the beta, but to me Sc2 just looks different, not necessarily better. I'm sure its refreshing at first, but in 10 years we may look at the two games similarly, at least in terms of gameplay. Maybe I'm wrong, but if Im right there is no reason Sc1 should be replaced, it should be able to stand alongside Sc2. Sadly, it may all be wishful thinking.
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
February 22 2010 06:08 GMT
#7
more like 2 extra races (orcs and humans were exactly the same except for spells on their spellcasters)
brood war for life, brood war forever
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PiG Daily
22:00
Best Games of SC
Maru vs Solar
Rogue vs MaxPax
herO vs Clem
SHIN vs ByuN
herO vs SHIN
TBD vs ByuN
PiGStarcraft450
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft450
ViBE171
Ketroc 44
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 16410
Shuttle 396
LancerX 50
Aegong 48
Dota 2
Gorgc5771
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0298
AZ_Axe84
Other Games
summit1g11237
tarik_tv4181
Grubby3253
shahzam519
mouzStarbuck291
crisheroes160
KnowMe150
Liquid`Hasu140
ProTech122
PPMD41
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV37
StarCraft 2
angryscii 32
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 91
• mYiSmile134
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie870
• Scarra713
• Shiphtur125
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
10h 35m
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
Platinum Heroes Events
15h 35m
BSL
20h 35m
RSL Revival
1d 10h
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
1d 12h
BSL
1d 19h
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

2026 Changsha Offline CUP
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.