• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 02:48
CET 08:48
KST 16:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns5[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach
Tourneys
SC2 AI Tournament 2026 WardiTV Winter Cup OSC Season 13 World Championship uThermal 2v2 Circuit WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I would like to say something about StarCraft Data analysis on 70 million replays Empty tournaments section on Liquipedia A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread The Big Programming Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
How do archons sleep?
8882
Psychological Factors That D…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
GOAT of Goats list
BisuDagger
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2136 users

Warcraft 2 and Starcraft

Blogs > StRyKeR
Post a Reply
StRyKeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States1739 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-22 05:29:22
February 22 2010 05:17 GMT
#1
Let me share a perspective as a former die-hard War2 fan.

Many of you have probably never played the game. Heck, many of you are probably wondering "uhh is that like War3?" War2 was an amazing game for its time. Back in 1995, it was the most popular RTS game.

This was before Battle.net, so people had to use Kali to play other people. I never used Kali myself (could never get parents to buy it) but I can remember the days when I used to connect dial-up to a friend and play 1v1 for hours.

There was no progaming scene, there were no major tournaments, and there was no teamliquid equivalent. But it was my obsession back in grade school. I would "mod" the game by changing up unit stats and playing my own version of War2. I would try obsessively to beat my friend, who always kicked my ass.

Players were dedicated. Thankfully, some of them happened to be programmers and legit modding tools became available. Once I found PUDDraft, I could not live without it. It allowed me to place custom doodads, edit the missiles fired by units, and a whole lot of other things. It was everything that a map editor should have had. I still remember the creator's name -- Alexander Ceche. I was a huge fan.

All these developments were happening, and then Starcraft was released.

It was like War2, but with better graphics, better sound, one extra race, and Battle.net.

I can recollect my first time playing it. I was Terran and I moved some marines around.

"Marines. Big deal."

My fear that War2 would fade into oblivion forced me to ignore it. "Starcraft is cool, but Warcraft 2 is my favorite game."

I soon moved to Korea, and because War2 wasn't equipped with Battle.net, I couldn't play with my friend in the states anymore. I was basically forced to quit War2.

In that time, however, I did pick up Starcraft. It was the cyber boom in Korea. PC-bangs everywhere, shitty economy a la IMF crisis. If you were a male in Korea circa 1999 and you didn't know Starcraft, you weren't awake. I was Terran and I played the game tirelessly.

After all those years, War2 still had a special place in my heart. When I heard that War2 Battle.net addition was going to come out, I was ecstatic. When I was back in the states in 2000, I started War2 gaming again.

Battle.net revived War2 like no other. It was as if the dormant passions of War2 players suddenly awoke all at once. I could play the game with anyone in the world. Like USEast Starcraft servers, War2 was mostly filled with 3v3 BGH-type maps. I joined a clan. I racked up a lot of games. The ladder, as always, was corrupt and hacking was rampant. Organizations started hosting tourneys.

In any case, it got me back in the game. I made new PUDs, new unit statistics, new everything. Some independent programmers would eventually develop replays for the game. Yea, War2 never had replays. You could never watch or share your awesome games with anyone. I would always be on the lookout for the next piece of modding tool so I can try out some new things.

But new things stopped happening. Development stopped.

Alexander Ceche had stopped making updates a long time ago. The community reached its peak and started dwindling. There were no longer pages of games to choose from on Battle.net. No more clans vying for position and trash-talking each other, only a few random UMS games and maybe a few 2v2s. 3v3s were impossible to fill.

Truth be told, War2 was deficient on many levels. In the Battle.net edition, Blizzard added an extra speed that was faster than before. That made the game incredibly hard to play accurately. Micro was near impossible. Also, Orcs had Bloodlust which was just ridiculously overpowered.

Luckily, by the time War2 was truly fading, I was into Starcraft. It was the new awesome favorite game. Then War3 came out. We hated it. We were the older sibling and War3 was the newborn. It got all the attention. Soon, SC would very rarely get updates and Battle.net was abandoned by Blizzard. But we stayed on because, simply, SC was a better game.

The release of SC2 reminds me of all these things. War2 is now an old shell of what it used to be. The only remnants are a few players on private servers and still-die-hard fans posting once in a while about the game on Starcraft forums trying to get more players interested. War2 was a great game for its time. Starcraft turned out to be better. War3 was unable to replace Starcraft. What about SC2?

At least back then, there was no centralized "go to" place for War2 news. People migrated slowly, if at all. People like me still hanging on which kept the exodus from accelerating too quickly. Now we have teamliquid, all the streams, and information that spreads like wildfire.

Will SC's fire dim to embers only to be found sporadically in SC2 forums, to make people aware of "this awesome game you should check out"? Will it fade to darkness as quickly as War2 only to be revived with a Battle.net 2.0 upgrade? It seems like yesterday when all the top players were competing fiercely for titles in SC and developers trying hard to make mods and tools to analyze replays.

War2 went through a number of stages before demise.
1) Loss of Battle.net players
2) Loss of clans
3) Loss of tournaments
4) Loss of Blizzard support
5) Loss of 3rd party development
6) Loss of community websites

I'm seeing some of these symptoms from SC already.
1) We'll have to see if ICCup user count diminishes.
2) Clans have definitely been thinning out.
3) Tournaments might still stay alive, if only because of Korea.
4) Blizzard has already stopped.
5) MasterOfChaos?
6) Teamliquid! The SC2 section is huge and will soon overtake everything.

I got over War2. Maybe I'll get over SC.

*****
Ars longa, vita brevis, principia aeturna.
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
February 22 2010 05:24 GMT
#2
Good read, but I think people are getting a little TOO prepared to ditch sc. Melee did survive brawl and BW might do the same who knows.

Of course if SC2 exceeds BW in terms of a game then yeah people will switch, like in the case of people transferring from War2 to SC. However if it doesn't exceed BW, we will probably have a regression back to BW.

Reading all these blogs makes me realize that competitive gaming really has nothing to do with the game, it's all about who is playing what.
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
February 22 2010 05:25 GMT
#3
I played war2 as well but didn't really remember the war2 -> sc transition.

I was a bit too young to really remember how that transition went but maybe the sc -> sc2 will work out the same sort of way.

I hope so!
Foreplay
Profile Joined May 2008
United States1154 Posts
February 22 2010 05:34 GMT
#4
i hope you're right
Better than Pokebunny
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
February 22 2010 05:37 GMT
#5
Seems like a fairly insightful post. I'll have to look into wc2 some
NeoOmega
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States495 Posts
February 22 2010 05:44 GMT
#6
I love old stories. And I hope Sc1 doesnt die. I havn't been able to play the beta, but to me Sc2 just looks different, not necessarily better. I'm sure its refreshing at first, but in 10 years we may look at the two games similarly, at least in terms of gameplay. Maybe I'm wrong, but if Im right there is no reason Sc1 should be replaced, it should be able to stand alongside Sc2. Sadly, it may all be wishful thinking.
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
February 22 2010 06:08 GMT
#7
more like 2 extra races (orcs and humans were exactly the same except for spells on their spellcasters)
brood war for life, brood war forever
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
SOOP
04:00
SOOP Invitational #1
Liquipedia
PiGosaur Cup
01:00
#63
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft529
Nina 207
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 1600
actioN 342
Larva 324
Pusan 282
ggaemo 177
Hyuk 110
Shuttle 86
sorry 85
EffOrt 84
Mong 72
[ Show more ]
Bale 35
ZergMaN 31
NotJumperer 20
zelot 20
Shine 19
Dota 2
XaKoH 672
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 587
C9.Mang0522
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox302
Mew2King43
Other Games
summit1g7848
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick31100
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 6
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt389
Upcoming Events
OSC
4h 12m
TBD vs MindelVK
Cham vs sebesdes
Shameless vs Jumy
Nicoract vs Krystianer
OSC
1d 6h
SOOP
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
IPSL
4 days
DragOn vs Sziky
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-05
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
OSC Championship Season 13
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Big Gabe Cup #3
Nations Cup 2026
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.