• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:29
CEST 11:29
KST 18:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-63PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)8Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE15Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b8IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly5
StarCraft 2
General
Life's Huge Gambling Spree After IEM Katowice 2014 Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 1/8 Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"
Tourneys
INu's Battles#19 2-Days Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-6 PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion BW Drama: Terror's Debt Incident + C9 disbanding Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues BSL LAN Party - Kraków 29-30 August - OPEN SIGNUPS
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation PvT advise for noobs
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The Scarlett Fan Club The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3236 users

Warcraft 2 and Starcraft

Blogs > StRyKeR
Post a Reply
StRyKeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States1739 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-22 05:29:22
February 22 2010 05:17 GMT
#1
Let me share a perspective as a former die-hard War2 fan.

Many of you have probably never played the game. Heck, many of you are probably wondering "uhh is that like War3?" War2 was an amazing game for its time. Back in 1995, it was the most popular RTS game.

This was before Battle.net, so people had to use Kali to play other people. I never used Kali myself (could never get parents to buy it) but I can remember the days when I used to connect dial-up to a friend and play 1v1 for hours.

There was no progaming scene, there were no major tournaments, and there was no teamliquid equivalent. But it was my obsession back in grade school. I would "mod" the game by changing up unit stats and playing my own version of War2. I would try obsessively to beat my friend, who always kicked my ass.

Players were dedicated. Thankfully, some of them happened to be programmers and legit modding tools became available. Once I found PUDDraft, I could not live without it. It allowed me to place custom doodads, edit the missiles fired by units, and a whole lot of other things. It was everything that a map editor should have had. I still remember the creator's name -- Alexander Ceche. I was a huge fan.

All these developments were happening, and then Starcraft was released.

It was like War2, but with better graphics, better sound, one extra race, and Battle.net.

I can recollect my first time playing it. I was Terran and I moved some marines around.

"Marines. Big deal."

My fear that War2 would fade into oblivion forced me to ignore it. "Starcraft is cool, but Warcraft 2 is my favorite game."

I soon moved to Korea, and because War2 wasn't equipped with Battle.net, I couldn't play with my friend in the states anymore. I was basically forced to quit War2.

In that time, however, I did pick up Starcraft. It was the cyber boom in Korea. PC-bangs everywhere, shitty economy a la IMF crisis. If you were a male in Korea circa 1999 and you didn't know Starcraft, you weren't awake. I was Terran and I played the game tirelessly.

After all those years, War2 still had a special place in my heart. When I heard that War2 Battle.net addition was going to come out, I was ecstatic. When I was back in the states in 2000, I started War2 gaming again.

Battle.net revived War2 like no other. It was as if the dormant passions of War2 players suddenly awoke all at once. I could play the game with anyone in the world. Like USEast Starcraft servers, War2 was mostly filled with 3v3 BGH-type maps. I joined a clan. I racked up a lot of games. The ladder, as always, was corrupt and hacking was rampant. Organizations started hosting tourneys.

In any case, it got me back in the game. I made new PUDs, new unit statistics, new everything. Some independent programmers would eventually develop replays for the game. Yea, War2 never had replays. You could never watch or share your awesome games with anyone. I would always be on the lookout for the next piece of modding tool so I can try out some new things.

But new things stopped happening. Development stopped.

Alexander Ceche had stopped making updates a long time ago. The community reached its peak and started dwindling. There were no longer pages of games to choose from on Battle.net. No more clans vying for position and trash-talking each other, only a few random UMS games and maybe a few 2v2s. 3v3s were impossible to fill.

Truth be told, War2 was deficient on many levels. In the Battle.net edition, Blizzard added an extra speed that was faster than before. That made the game incredibly hard to play accurately. Micro was near impossible. Also, Orcs had Bloodlust which was just ridiculously overpowered.

Luckily, by the time War2 was truly fading, I was into Starcraft. It was the new awesome favorite game. Then War3 came out. We hated it. We were the older sibling and War3 was the newborn. It got all the attention. Soon, SC would very rarely get updates and Battle.net was abandoned by Blizzard. But we stayed on because, simply, SC was a better game.

The release of SC2 reminds me of all these things. War2 is now an old shell of what it used to be. The only remnants are a few players on private servers and still-die-hard fans posting once in a while about the game on Starcraft forums trying to get more players interested. War2 was a great game for its time. Starcraft turned out to be better. War3 was unable to replace Starcraft. What about SC2?

At least back then, there was no centralized "go to" place for War2 news. People migrated slowly, if at all. People like me still hanging on which kept the exodus from accelerating too quickly. Now we have teamliquid, all the streams, and information that spreads like wildfire.

Will SC's fire dim to embers only to be found sporadically in SC2 forums, to make people aware of "this awesome game you should check out"? Will it fade to darkness as quickly as War2 only to be revived with a Battle.net 2.0 upgrade? It seems like yesterday when all the top players were competing fiercely for titles in SC and developers trying hard to make mods and tools to analyze replays.

War2 went through a number of stages before demise.
1) Loss of Battle.net players
2) Loss of clans
3) Loss of tournaments
4) Loss of Blizzard support
5) Loss of 3rd party development
6) Loss of community websites

I'm seeing some of these symptoms from SC already.
1) We'll have to see if ICCup user count diminishes.
2) Clans have definitely been thinning out.
3) Tournaments might still stay alive, if only because of Korea.
4) Blizzard has already stopped.
5) MasterOfChaos?
6) Teamliquid! The SC2 section is huge and will soon overtake everything.

I got over War2. Maybe I'll get over SC.

*****
Ars longa, vita brevis, principia aeturna.
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
February 22 2010 05:24 GMT
#2
Good read, but I think people are getting a little TOO prepared to ditch sc. Melee did survive brawl and BW might do the same who knows.

Of course if SC2 exceeds BW in terms of a game then yeah people will switch, like in the case of people transferring from War2 to SC. However if it doesn't exceed BW, we will probably have a regression back to BW.

Reading all these blogs makes me realize that competitive gaming really has nothing to do with the game, it's all about who is playing what.
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
February 22 2010 05:25 GMT
#3
I played war2 as well but didn't really remember the war2 -> sc transition.

I was a bit too young to really remember how that transition went but maybe the sc -> sc2 will work out the same sort of way.

I hope so!
Foreplay
Profile Joined May 2008
United States1154 Posts
February 22 2010 05:34 GMT
#4
i hope you're right
Better than Pokebunny
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
February 22 2010 05:37 GMT
#5
Seems like a fairly insightful post. I'll have to look into wc2 some
NeoOmega
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States495 Posts
February 22 2010 05:44 GMT
#6
I love old stories. And I hope Sc1 doesnt die. I havn't been able to play the beta, but to me Sc2 just looks different, not necessarily better. I'm sure its refreshing at first, but in 10 years we may look at the two games similarly, at least in terms of gameplay. Maybe I'm wrong, but if Im right there is no reason Sc1 should be replaced, it should be able to stand alongside Sc2. Sadly, it may all be wishful thinking.
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
February 22 2010 06:08 GMT
#7
more like 2 extra races (orcs and humans were exactly the same except for spells on their spellcasters)
brood war for life, brood war forever
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
09:00
Season 6 - Playoffs Day 4
Clem vs Serral
herO vs Rogue
Tasteless1035
ComeBackTV 558
RotterdaM440
IntoTheiNu 380
Ryung 295
3DClanTV 78
Rex77
CranKy Ducklings47
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 1035
RotterdaM 440
Ryung 295
Rex 77
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 1427
actioN 1226
Hm[arnc] 950
BeSt 451
Larva 278
EffOrt 174
Dewaltoss 167
Soma 129
sorry 86
JulyZerg 37
[ Show more ]
Sharp 32
ZerO 30
ToSsGirL 20
Bale 20
ZergMaN 17
NotJumperer 10
Dota 2
Gorgc6123
Counter-Strike
Sick124
kRYSTAL_99
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King87
Other Games
singsing1565
WinterStarcraft825
Pyrionflax136
RuFF_SC226
ZerO(Twitch)4
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH292
• StrangeGG 49
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2287
League of Legends
• Jankos1339
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2h 31m
WardiTV Weekly
1d 1h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
INu's Battles
2 days
Percival vs Zoun
Cure vs Rogue
ByuN vs Classic
Clem vs NightMare
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
INu's Battles
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
K-JUNGMAN
RSL Revival: Season 6
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.