• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 08:28
CET 14:28
KST 22:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners10Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!33$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship6[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win10
StarCraft 2
General
Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" 5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
[ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1503 users

Warcraft 2 and Starcraft

Blogs > StRyKeR
Post a Reply
StRyKeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States1739 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-22 05:29:22
February 22 2010 05:17 GMT
#1
Let me share a perspective as a former die-hard War2 fan.

Many of you have probably never played the game. Heck, many of you are probably wondering "uhh is that like War3?" War2 was an amazing game for its time. Back in 1995, it was the most popular RTS game.

This was before Battle.net, so people had to use Kali to play other people. I never used Kali myself (could never get parents to buy it) but I can remember the days when I used to connect dial-up to a friend and play 1v1 for hours.

There was no progaming scene, there were no major tournaments, and there was no teamliquid equivalent. But it was my obsession back in grade school. I would "mod" the game by changing up unit stats and playing my own version of War2. I would try obsessively to beat my friend, who always kicked my ass.

Players were dedicated. Thankfully, some of them happened to be programmers and legit modding tools became available. Once I found PUDDraft, I could not live without it. It allowed me to place custom doodads, edit the missiles fired by units, and a whole lot of other things. It was everything that a map editor should have had. I still remember the creator's name -- Alexander Ceche. I was a huge fan.

All these developments were happening, and then Starcraft was released.

It was like War2, but with better graphics, better sound, one extra race, and Battle.net.

I can recollect my first time playing it. I was Terran and I moved some marines around.

"Marines. Big deal."

My fear that War2 would fade into oblivion forced me to ignore it. "Starcraft is cool, but Warcraft 2 is my favorite game."

I soon moved to Korea, and because War2 wasn't equipped with Battle.net, I couldn't play with my friend in the states anymore. I was basically forced to quit War2.

In that time, however, I did pick up Starcraft. It was the cyber boom in Korea. PC-bangs everywhere, shitty economy a la IMF crisis. If you were a male in Korea circa 1999 and you didn't know Starcraft, you weren't awake. I was Terran and I played the game tirelessly.

After all those years, War2 still had a special place in my heart. When I heard that War2 Battle.net addition was going to come out, I was ecstatic. When I was back in the states in 2000, I started War2 gaming again.

Battle.net revived War2 like no other. It was as if the dormant passions of War2 players suddenly awoke all at once. I could play the game with anyone in the world. Like USEast Starcraft servers, War2 was mostly filled with 3v3 BGH-type maps. I joined a clan. I racked up a lot of games. The ladder, as always, was corrupt and hacking was rampant. Organizations started hosting tourneys.

In any case, it got me back in the game. I made new PUDs, new unit statistics, new everything. Some independent programmers would eventually develop replays for the game. Yea, War2 never had replays. You could never watch or share your awesome games with anyone. I would always be on the lookout for the next piece of modding tool so I can try out some new things.

But new things stopped happening. Development stopped.

Alexander Ceche had stopped making updates a long time ago. The community reached its peak and started dwindling. There were no longer pages of games to choose from on Battle.net. No more clans vying for position and trash-talking each other, only a few random UMS games and maybe a few 2v2s. 3v3s were impossible to fill.

Truth be told, War2 was deficient on many levels. In the Battle.net edition, Blizzard added an extra speed that was faster than before. That made the game incredibly hard to play accurately. Micro was near impossible. Also, Orcs had Bloodlust which was just ridiculously overpowered.

Luckily, by the time War2 was truly fading, I was into Starcraft. It was the new awesome favorite game. Then War3 came out. We hated it. We were the older sibling and War3 was the newborn. It got all the attention. Soon, SC would very rarely get updates and Battle.net was abandoned by Blizzard. But we stayed on because, simply, SC was a better game.

The release of SC2 reminds me of all these things. War2 is now an old shell of what it used to be. The only remnants are a few players on private servers and still-die-hard fans posting once in a while about the game on Starcraft forums trying to get more players interested. War2 was a great game for its time. Starcraft turned out to be better. War3 was unable to replace Starcraft. What about SC2?

At least back then, there was no centralized "go to" place for War2 news. People migrated slowly, if at all. People like me still hanging on which kept the exodus from accelerating too quickly. Now we have teamliquid, all the streams, and information that spreads like wildfire.

Will SC's fire dim to embers only to be found sporadically in SC2 forums, to make people aware of "this awesome game you should check out"? Will it fade to darkness as quickly as War2 only to be revived with a Battle.net 2.0 upgrade? It seems like yesterday when all the top players were competing fiercely for titles in SC and developers trying hard to make mods and tools to analyze replays.

War2 went through a number of stages before demise.
1) Loss of Battle.net players
2) Loss of clans
3) Loss of tournaments
4) Loss of Blizzard support
5) Loss of 3rd party development
6) Loss of community websites

I'm seeing some of these symptoms from SC already.
1) We'll have to see if ICCup user count diminishes.
2) Clans have definitely been thinning out.
3) Tournaments might still stay alive, if only because of Korea.
4) Blizzard has already stopped.
5) MasterOfChaos?
6) Teamliquid! The SC2 section is huge and will soon overtake everything.

I got over War2. Maybe I'll get over SC.

*****
Ars longa, vita brevis, principia aeturna.
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
February 22 2010 05:24 GMT
#2
Good read, but I think people are getting a little TOO prepared to ditch sc. Melee did survive brawl and BW might do the same who knows.

Of course if SC2 exceeds BW in terms of a game then yeah people will switch, like in the case of people transferring from War2 to SC. However if it doesn't exceed BW, we will probably have a regression back to BW.

Reading all these blogs makes me realize that competitive gaming really has nothing to do with the game, it's all about who is playing what.
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
February 22 2010 05:25 GMT
#3
I played war2 as well but didn't really remember the war2 -> sc transition.

I was a bit too young to really remember how that transition went but maybe the sc -> sc2 will work out the same sort of way.

I hope so!
Foreplay
Profile Joined May 2008
United States1154 Posts
February 22 2010 05:34 GMT
#4
i hope you're right
Better than Pokebunny
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
February 22 2010 05:37 GMT
#5
Seems like a fairly insightful post. I'll have to look into wc2 some
NeoOmega
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States495 Posts
February 22 2010 05:44 GMT
#6
I love old stories. And I hope Sc1 doesnt die. I havn't been able to play the beta, but to me Sc2 just looks different, not necessarily better. I'm sure its refreshing at first, but in 10 years we may look at the two games similarly, at least in terms of gameplay. Maybe I'm wrong, but if Im right there is no reason Sc1 should be replaced, it should be able to stand alongside Sc2. Sadly, it may all be wishful thinking.
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
February 22 2010 06:08 GMT
#7
more like 2 extra races (orcs and humans were exactly the same except for spells on their spellcasters)
brood war for life, brood war forever
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Sea Duckling Open #140
CranKy Ducklings78
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 338
Lowko277
RotterdaM 112
Railgan 27
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 6643
Horang2 4443
GuemChi 1871
Larva 1055
Jaedong 1019
Rush 377
actioN 311
Soma 281
Mini 261
Killer 228
[ Show more ]
BeSt 220
EffOrt 143
ToSsGirL 95
Hyun 85
Backho 58
Sharp 52
Bonyth 41
Mind 39
PianO 33
sas.Sziky 31
JYJ25
Terrorterran 22
zelot 21
soO 9
Bale 7
HiyA 7
Sacsri 7
sorry 7
Dota 2
Gorgc6315
singsing2174
qojqva1478
Dendi410
XcaliburYe179
BananaSlamJamma55
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor199
Other Games
B2W.Neo1102
Sick289
Fuzer 180
XaKoH 92
nookyyy 41
MindelVK18
Organizations
StarCraft 2
WardiTV622
Counter-Strike
PGL158
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH197
• StrangeGG 57
• Dystopia_ 4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1480
League of Legends
• Stunt748
• HappyZerGling87
Upcoming Events
IPSL
4h 32m
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
LAN Event
4h 32m
Lambo vs Clem
Scarlett vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs TBD
Zoun vs TBD
BSL 21
6h 32m
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs OyAji
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
Replay Cast
9h 32m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
20h 32m
WardiTV Korean Royale
22h 32m
LAN Event
1d 1h
IPSL
1d 4h
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
1d 6h
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
Replay Cast
1d 19h
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
1d 22h
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.