• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:28
CET 17:28
KST 01:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT24Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book16Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0241LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker16
StarCraft 2
General
Liquipedia WCS Portal Launched ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Kaelaris on the futue of SC2 and much more... How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) How do the "codes" work in GSL? Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [LIVE] [S:21] ASL Season Open Day 1 ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 Gypsy to Korea A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Fighting Spirit mining rates Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread Diablo 2 thread Path of Exile Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Inside the Communication of …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1942 users

Warcraft 2 and Starcraft

Blogs > StRyKeR
Post a Reply
StRyKeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
United States1739 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-02-22 05:29:22
February 22 2010 05:17 GMT
#1
Let me share a perspective as a former die-hard War2 fan.

Many of you have probably never played the game. Heck, many of you are probably wondering "uhh is that like War3?" War2 was an amazing game for its time. Back in 1995, it was the most popular RTS game.

This was before Battle.net, so people had to use Kali to play other people. I never used Kali myself (could never get parents to buy it) but I can remember the days when I used to connect dial-up to a friend and play 1v1 for hours.

There was no progaming scene, there were no major tournaments, and there was no teamliquid equivalent. But it was my obsession back in grade school. I would "mod" the game by changing up unit stats and playing my own version of War2. I would try obsessively to beat my friend, who always kicked my ass.

Players were dedicated. Thankfully, some of them happened to be programmers and legit modding tools became available. Once I found PUDDraft, I could not live without it. It allowed me to place custom doodads, edit the missiles fired by units, and a whole lot of other things. It was everything that a map editor should have had. I still remember the creator's name -- Alexander Ceche. I was a huge fan.

All these developments were happening, and then Starcraft was released.

It was like War2, but with better graphics, better sound, one extra race, and Battle.net.

I can recollect my first time playing it. I was Terran and I moved some marines around.

"Marines. Big deal."

My fear that War2 would fade into oblivion forced me to ignore it. "Starcraft is cool, but Warcraft 2 is my favorite game."

I soon moved to Korea, and because War2 wasn't equipped with Battle.net, I couldn't play with my friend in the states anymore. I was basically forced to quit War2.

In that time, however, I did pick up Starcraft. It was the cyber boom in Korea. PC-bangs everywhere, shitty economy a la IMF crisis. If you were a male in Korea circa 1999 and you didn't know Starcraft, you weren't awake. I was Terran and I played the game tirelessly.

After all those years, War2 still had a special place in my heart. When I heard that War2 Battle.net addition was going to come out, I was ecstatic. When I was back in the states in 2000, I started War2 gaming again.

Battle.net revived War2 like no other. It was as if the dormant passions of War2 players suddenly awoke all at once. I could play the game with anyone in the world. Like USEast Starcraft servers, War2 was mostly filled with 3v3 BGH-type maps. I joined a clan. I racked up a lot of games. The ladder, as always, was corrupt and hacking was rampant. Organizations started hosting tourneys.

In any case, it got me back in the game. I made new PUDs, new unit statistics, new everything. Some independent programmers would eventually develop replays for the game. Yea, War2 never had replays. You could never watch or share your awesome games with anyone. I would always be on the lookout for the next piece of modding tool so I can try out some new things.

But new things stopped happening. Development stopped.

Alexander Ceche had stopped making updates a long time ago. The community reached its peak and started dwindling. There were no longer pages of games to choose from on Battle.net. No more clans vying for position and trash-talking each other, only a few random UMS games and maybe a few 2v2s. 3v3s were impossible to fill.

Truth be told, War2 was deficient on many levels. In the Battle.net edition, Blizzard added an extra speed that was faster than before. That made the game incredibly hard to play accurately. Micro was near impossible. Also, Orcs had Bloodlust which was just ridiculously overpowered.

Luckily, by the time War2 was truly fading, I was into Starcraft. It was the new awesome favorite game. Then War3 came out. We hated it. We were the older sibling and War3 was the newborn. It got all the attention. Soon, SC would very rarely get updates and Battle.net was abandoned by Blizzard. But we stayed on because, simply, SC was a better game.

The release of SC2 reminds me of all these things. War2 is now an old shell of what it used to be. The only remnants are a few players on private servers and still-die-hard fans posting once in a while about the game on Starcraft forums trying to get more players interested. War2 was a great game for its time. Starcraft turned out to be better. War3 was unable to replace Starcraft. What about SC2?

At least back then, there was no centralized "go to" place for War2 news. People migrated slowly, if at all. People like me still hanging on which kept the exodus from accelerating too quickly. Now we have teamliquid, all the streams, and information that spreads like wildfire.

Will SC's fire dim to embers only to be found sporadically in SC2 forums, to make people aware of "this awesome game you should check out"? Will it fade to darkness as quickly as War2 only to be revived with a Battle.net 2.0 upgrade? It seems like yesterday when all the top players were competing fiercely for titles in SC and developers trying hard to make mods and tools to analyze replays.

War2 went through a number of stages before demise.
1) Loss of Battle.net players
2) Loss of clans
3) Loss of tournaments
4) Loss of Blizzard support
5) Loss of 3rd party development
6) Loss of community websites

I'm seeing some of these symptoms from SC already.
1) We'll have to see if ICCup user count diminishes.
2) Clans have definitely been thinning out.
3) Tournaments might still stay alive, if only because of Korea.
4) Blizzard has already stopped.
5) MasterOfChaos?
6) Teamliquid! The SC2 section is huge and will soon overtake everything.

I got over War2. Maybe I'll get over SC.

*****
Ars longa, vita brevis, principia aeturna.
Zapdos_Smithh
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada2620 Posts
February 22 2010 05:24 GMT
#2
Good read, but I think people are getting a little TOO prepared to ditch sc. Melee did survive brawl and BW might do the same who knows.

Of course if SC2 exceeds BW in terms of a game then yeah people will switch, like in the case of people transferring from War2 to SC. However if it doesn't exceed BW, we will probably have a regression back to BW.

Reading all these blogs makes me realize that competitive gaming really has nothing to do with the game, it's all about who is playing what.
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
February 22 2010 05:25 GMT
#3
I played war2 as well but didn't really remember the war2 -> sc transition.

I was a bit too young to really remember how that transition went but maybe the sc -> sc2 will work out the same sort of way.

I hope so!
Foreplay
Profile Joined May 2008
United States1154 Posts
February 22 2010 05:34 GMT
#4
i hope you're right
Better than Pokebunny
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
February 22 2010 05:37 GMT
#5
Seems like a fairly insightful post. I'll have to look into wc2 some
NeoOmega
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States495 Posts
February 22 2010 05:44 GMT
#6
I love old stories. And I hope Sc1 doesnt die. I havn't been able to play the beta, but to me Sc2 just looks different, not necessarily better. I'm sure its refreshing at first, but in 10 years we may look at the two games similarly, at least in terms of gameplay. Maybe I'm wrong, but if Im right there is no reason Sc1 should be replaced, it should be able to stand alongside Sc2. Sadly, it may all be wishful thinking.
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
February 22 2010 06:08 GMT
#7
more like 2 extra races (orcs and humans were exactly the same except for spells on their spellcasters)
brood war for life, brood war forever
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
15:00
Bonus Cup #4
uThermal431
IndyStarCraft 224
Liquipedia
Epic.LAN
12:00
#47 - Day 2
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
uThermal 431
IndyStarCraft 224
BRAT_OK 62
goblin 25
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 27662
Sea 4082
Rain 3728
Horang2 1845
Shuttle 907
firebathero 430
Hm[arnc] 334
Mini 288
HiyA 271
Light 237
[ Show more ]
Last 108
Dewaltoss 106
Hyun 97
Bonyth 51
ToSsGirL 38
JYJ 36
Rock 30
Noble 21
Movie 17
Sacsri 14
Shine 14
Terrorterran 8
Dota 2
Gorgc5875
qojqva1841
canceldota6
Counter-Strike
fl0m4022
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King154
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor578
Liquid`Hasu371
Trikslyr44
MindelVK8
Other Games
singsing2550
FrodaN482
byalli399
Fuzer 397
DeMusliM344
Hui .187
Liquid`VortiX148
ArmadaUGS68
KnowMe31
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL49461
StarCraft 2
WardiTV1120
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 8
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH109
• Shameless 21
• HeavenSC 16
• Adnapsc2 12
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 4
• FirePhoenix1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2014
• Shiphtur114
Other Games
• tFFMrPink 17
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
7h 33m
PiG Sty Festival
16h 33m
Serral vs YoungYakov
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Sparkling Tuna Cup
17h 33m
Replay Cast
1d 7h
Replay Cast
1d 16h
Wardi Open
1d 19h
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Winter Champion…
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: King of Kings
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round Qualifier
WardiTV Winter 2026
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

Acropolis #4 - TS5
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026: China & Korea Invitational
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.