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United States12607 Posts
A while back I decided to compile IdrA's match record in recent foreigner tournaments, for purposes of argument in this month-old thread (which, coincidentally, was bumped as I was writing this post). Here's an updated list of all of IdrA's recent match (BoX) results, for all you curious fans out there (tournaments are in no particular order):
SC2GG Starleague
Ro8: WIN 2>0 Oystein
Ro4: WIN 3>1 Xiaozi
Final: WIN 3>2 Yayba
Ansadi Starleague
Ro32: WIN 2>0 SarenS
Ro16: WIN 2>0 Enivid
Ro8: WIN 2>0 ret
Ro4: LOSS 2<4 PJ
Valor Tournament
Ro32: WIN 2>1 MaNa
Ro16: WIN 2>0 Tarson
Ro8: WIN 2>1 CastrO
Ro4: WIN 3>1 Brat_OK
Final: WIN 4>0 Fenix
ESL Major Series
Ro8: WIN 3>0 Mondragon
WB Ro4: WIN 3>0 Arew
WB Final: WIN 3>2 ret
Final: vs. ret on Sunday
ESWC Asia Masters American Qualifier
WB Ro16: WIN 2>0 iNcontroL
WB Ro8: WIN 2>0 Machine
WB Ro4: WIN 2>1 Dinot
WB Final: WIN 2>1 Fenix
Final: WIN 2>2 Fenix
ESWC Asia Masters
Match 1: LOSS 1<2 White-Ra
LB Match 1: WIN 2>1 Super
LB Match 2: WIN 2>0 Tossgirl
Final: WIN 3>0 White-Ra
Zotac Cup 2
Ro8: WIN 2>0 MaNa
Ro4: WIN 2>1 Yoon
Final: WIN 3>1 DIMAGA
Zotac Cup 8
Ro8: WIN 2>0 Fenix
Ro4: WIN 2>0 ASL-Radio (?)
Final: WIN 3>0 ret
Zotac Cup 9
Ro8: WIN 2>1 Yayba
Ro4: WIN 2>0 Shudo (?)
Final: WIN 3>0 JF
The Highlander
Ro32: WIN 2>1 DIMAGA
Ro16: WIN 2>1 CastrO
Ro8: vs. Xiaozi
Fun facts:
- With the exception of the Ansadi Starleague, IdrA has won, or is still alive in, every major non-Korean event since, and including, ESWC.
- Barring an exit in Bo1s that I missed or an unknown smurf, IdrA has won every Zotac Cup that he has participated in.
- IdrA's record across these matches is 81-24 (80%).
 
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I wonder when he's reached the point where he just has to be excluded from foreign tournaments because he's playing in another league. IMHO, this is going to happen pretty soon..
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i remember some caster saying that it's idra's turn to win everything, like how JF was a while ago
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-______________- imba practice partners 
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United States12607 Posts
On July 29 2009 13:54 Tehinf wrote:
i remember some caster saying that it's idra's turn to win everything, like how JF was a while ago
No offense to JF, but he was never dominant on this scale.
(Then again, at JF's peak (around TSL time) there were far fewer tournaments for him to play in.)
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is awesome32277 Posts
Why would you ban Idra? I don't think anyone banned draco, or madcow, or pj or lx while they were in korea?
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its good news that idra won cos i wanna see him representing in CJ's PL in future,or perhaps some big stage just to watch idra pwning ppl
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On July 29 2009 13:56 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 13:54 Tehinf wrote:
i remember some caster saying that it's idra's turn to win everything, like how JF was a while ago No offense to JF, but he was never dominant on this scale. (Then again, at JF's peak (around TSL time) there were far fewer tournaments for him to play in.)
Then again, IdrA gets to practice with CJ Entus, JF practiced with who knows?
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Well it would have been disappointing if he wasn't able to produce results vs this kind of not too hard competition ( sry foreigners :p )
He is a pro playing amateurs afterall.
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Um, it's not like IdrA was randomly chosen to go to Korea. He was given a chance to, and given his circumstances, he could. Some people have to refuse to go because of personal issues, and so won't participate in those few tournaments that allowed them to go to Korea.
He deserved, you guys are all acting like he stumbled upon the CJ and they're freely bestowing him with SC prowess.
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my god i just clicked on the bracket link, i think i filled out my bracket wrong..
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United States12607 Posts
When IdrA didn't show great results in TSL and vs. F91 in Liquibition, he was bashed for not making good on his time as a professional gamer. And now that he actually is showing great results, his critics act like this is what they expected all along.
I think IdrA's recent performance is wicked impressive, even considering all of the advantages that come from playing for CJ.
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On July 29 2009 13:57 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 13:56 JWD wrote:On July 29 2009 13:54 Tehinf wrote:
i remember some caster saying that it's idra's turn to win everything, like how JF was a while ago No offense to JF, but he was never dominant on this scale. (Then again, at JF's peak (around TSL time) there were far fewer tournaments for him to play in.) Then again, IdrA gets to practice with CJ Entus, JF practiced with who knows?
Then again?
They were not even talking about the circumstances of which why Idra is more dominant. Just that his dominance is on a higher level.
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
dont forget he won the north/south american ESWC qualifier, a very hard run with players like fenix/dinot/eg members.
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United States12607 Posts
On July 29 2009 14:03 Artosis wrote:
dont forget he won the north/south american ESWC qualifier, a very hard run with players like fenix/dinot/eg members.
Oh good call Artosis, I'll look for results and edit this in added!
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On July 29 2009 13:57 Roffles wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 13:56 JWD wrote:On July 29 2009 13:54 Tehinf wrote:
i remember some caster saying that it's idra's turn to win everything, like how JF was a while ago No offense to JF, but he was never dominant on this scale. (Then again, at JF's peak (around TSL time) there were far fewer tournaments for him to play in.) Then again, IdrA gets to practice with CJ Entus, JF practiced with who knows?
soda FTW.
it's not only that he has good partners, it's the whole environment he is in, which kind of makes him the only one who should be winning.
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
btw, thx JWD for outlining this. i hope all the haters who were flaming me for calling him the foriegn bonjwa in mumbo jumbo read this. artosis always speaks the truth thx.
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Should total up his prize money too.
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On July 29 2009 14:03 Etherone wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 13:57 Roffles wrote:On July 29 2009 13:56 JWD wrote:On July 29 2009 13:54 Tehinf wrote:
i remember some caster saying that it's idra's turn to win everything, like how JF was a while ago No offense to JF, but he was never dominant on this scale. (Then again, at JF's peak (around TSL time) there were far fewer tournaments for him to play in.) Then again, IdrA gets to practice with CJ Entus, JF practiced with who knows? soda FTW. it's not only that he has good partners, it's the whole environment he is in, which kind of makes him the only one who should be winning.
Agreed. Idra should be winning all these and good for him. He would be putting in a lot more practice and effort then everyone else. Complete dominance at the moment from Idra. very impressed
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I think until he plays a televised game for CJ he is still technically a foreigner, at least imo.
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On July 29 2009 14:05 Artosis wrote:
btw, thx JWD for outlining this. i hope all the haters who were flaming me for calling him the foriegn bonjwa in mumbo jumbo read this. artosis always speaks the truth thx.
Shouldn't the bonjwa status be giving to Idra if he was competing with other foreigners who have the same practice routine and exposure to starcraft as him? I don't think its fair to call him that when he has that advantage. Hes damn good and owning it up, but just not with that title
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Katowice25012 Posts
This is really great, thanks.
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
On July 29 2009 14:09 SonuvBob wrote:
Should total up his prize money too.
actually, i disagree with this. showing the amount won is only luck based. people will start quoting amount of money won as if it matters. its really luck based what tournaments pop up during one person's peaks in skill.
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No doubt Idra is the foreign bonjwa.
Would be a tragedy if he couldn't participate in foreign leagues.
That being said, I believe he'll continue to bonjwa it up until SC2 comes out.
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On July 29 2009 14:03 Artosis wrote:
dont forget he won the north/south american ESWC qualifier, a very hard run with players like fenix/dinot/eg members.
oh right, it was artosis that said that, how jf was winning everything
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United States22883 Posts
If Jaedong wanted to compete in these foreigner tournaments, you would all blow your load for a chance to watch him and see some replays. Maybe it would get old after 2 or 3 tournaments, but it's not like people aren't giving IdrA real games.
When he starts facing nothing but cheese, then it'll be time to move on.
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On July 29 2009 14:14 Artosis wrote:actually, i disagree with this. showing the amount won is only luck based. people will start quoting amount of money won as if it matters. its really luck based what tournaments pop up during one person's peaks in skill.
Shhh, I want a number to quote. 
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Actually really cool too see how good he's been doing lately =D. Thanks for this thread, and i don't think you should put in his total prize money ;;.
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did zotac cup ever end up paying him?
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Well I decided to do some math, if we assume that Idra has a 76% chance of winning any given game against a foreigner (which is obviously a very rough approximation) then he will lose against this typical opponent in ~9.3% of Bo5 series.
This is obviously extreme domination and one could make the case for foreign bonjwa, but I don't think I will hand him that title until there are at least a few more months of domination (I don't doubt it, but I think it might be a little premature to grant it so soon).
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Baa?21244 Posts
Does "foreign" include China? A lot of these tournaments don't include Chinese players, and some Chinese players are at least on the same level as Idra, if not higher.
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United States12607 Posts
On July 29 2009 14:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
Does "foreign" include China? A lot of these tournaments don't include Chinese players, and some Chinese players are at least on the same level as Idra, if not higher.
I'd guess not. Artosis defines three BW scenes: Korean, Chinese, and foreign.
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Baa?21244 Posts
So again, there's this contradiction - a Korean (mostly?) player, Idra, is being considered a "foreign" bonjwa? Seems, um, odd to say the least o.O
(Don't mistake me, I'm not trying to take anything away from Idra here, he's been doing great. It's just the classifications of "scenes" is a bit sketchy...)
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The Chinese scene is totally separate, except for PGL which includes elements of all 3 (interestingly enough it's pretty much the ONLY large scale BW event outside of the WCG World Finals that incorporates the Korean, Chinese, AND Foreigner scene).
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Baa?21244 Posts
I heard rumors that PGL's not gonna have BW anymore >_>
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On July 29 2009 14:02 JWD wrote:
When IdrA didn't show great results in TSL and vs. F91 in Liquibition, he was bashed for not making good on his time as a professional gamer. And now that he actually is showing great results, his critics act like this is what they expected all along.
I think IdrA's recent performance is wicked impressive, even considering all of the advantages that come from playing for CJ.
Hahaha. It's true, but no one can deny that being on a proteam for that long isn't a major advantage. Certainly, he's improving, and that's great news, it means he's not going to stagnate too quickly. But in most people's minds he's gone from "omg, how pathetic that he loses to people who don't practice as much as him" to "Why isn't he showing results against people with the same opportunities?"
IT WILL NEVER BE ENOUGH!! HUAHAHAHA!
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On July 29 2009 15:02 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I heard rumors that PGL's not gonna have BW anymore >_>
Is this confirmed because this would be a real shame. I think it might be a sure thing.
Idra beat Sarens, Envid, and Ret in ASL according to the bracket, don't know the scores of the series though. I am glad he is doing so great.
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United States12607 Posts
On July 29 2009 16:17 Nick_54 wrote:
Idra beat Sarens, Envid, and Ret in ASL according to the bracket, don't know the scores of the series though. I am glad he is doing so great.
Oh? Where'd you find that bracket??
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On July 29 2009 16:29 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 16:17 Nick_54 wrote:
Idra beat Sarens, Envid, and Ret in ASL according to the bracket, don't know the scores of the series though. I am glad he is doing so great.
Oh? Where'd you find that bracket??
http://www.ansadi.com/asl1.html
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United States12607 Posts
On July 29 2009 16:33 Nick_54 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 16:29 JWD wrote:On July 29 2009 16:17 Nick_54 wrote:
Idra beat Sarens, Envid, and Ret in ASL according to the bracket, don't know the scores of the series though. I am glad he is doing so great.
Oh? Where'd you find that bracket?? http://www.ansadi.com/asl1.html
Thanks man! Updated OP with his opponents.
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On July 29 2009 13:56 IntoTheWow wrote:
Why would you ban Idra? I don't think anyone banned draco, or madcow, or pj or lx while they were in korea?
Ok just for arguments sake. Koreans are banned from tournaments because they are just too good, I presume? It's not about race or whatever because that would obviously not be cool.
So, if Idra gets too good while staying in Korea, should be be banned from tournaments too? Or is it about race after all? Him being a "foreigner" and "white hope".
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On July 29 2009 14:05 Artosis wrote:
btw, thx JWD for outlining this. i hope all the haters who were flaming me for calling him the foriegn bonjwa in mumbo jumbo read this. artosis always speaks the truth thx.
Well good sir Artosis, I think that "Bonjwa" is a nickname/concept that should only be used within the korean sc scene, because of the level of dominance some particular players exert over ALOT of other insanely good sc players.
With Idra, he is very good and as we all know trains with pros and lives with a pro gaming team, something that no other foreigner currently is doing. Thus he obviously gets an edge and the Bonjwa thing is more a result of the other foreigners semi-bad mechanics and what not.
Anyways, I get your point and all. I just don't think the term "Bonjwa" should be thrown around loosely.
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On July 29 2009 17:07 Foucault wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2009 14:05 Artosis wrote:
btw, thx JWD for outlining this. i hope all the haters who were flaming me for calling him the foriegn bonjwa in mumbo jumbo read this. artosis always speaks the truth thx. Well good sir Artosis, I think that "Bonjwa" is a nickname/concept that should only be used within the korean sc scene, because of the level of dominance some particular players exert over ALOT of other insanely good sc players. With Idra, he is very good and as we all know trains with pros and lives with a pro gaming team, something that no other foreigner currently is doing. Thus he obviously gets an edge and the Bonjwa thing is more a result of the other foreigners semi-bad mechanics and what not. Anyways, I get your point and all. I just don't think the term "Bonjwa" should be thrown around loosely.
I think the term "Bonjwa" should go to hell and die already. Some random journalist in Korea made that word up to spice up his article. The word bonjwa is not used in modern Korean, guess the journalist just thought it sounds cool and ancient and, without much thinking, just put it in his article. Now everyone and his mother thinks he knows what bonjwa means, when even the guy who created the hype doesn't know himself. There's no definition or anything for it, it was the community that picked the word up and gave it (about a million different) meanings. Even if the community would offer a few variations of a definition and made a big poll, people will still find loopholes and call their neighbour a bonjwa, because the wording of the definition was not precise enough. In the end it's just a useless waste of time to fret over something this trivial, considering the origin of this word. People try to give arguments why their definition is right, but they have nothing to back it up except that that other guy some time ago said the same thing, so it must be true since we're already two now.
That journalist guy is sitting in his room rofling over netizens around the world writing essays about his made up word, and I just became a part of it. GG.
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Would be very sad if he wouldnt win everything after nearly 2 years practicing 14 hours every day in the best possible environment.
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In all honestly. Idra need to step up on some big tournaments for people to take him seriously.
That or produce results against the Chinese players.
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Didn't Idra lose to ret in the GOL tournament?
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Impressive.  It's funny how not too long ago I almost had to give an apologetic explanation about why I would actually support Idra and now everyone's like "hey he is too good, no wonder after prac'ing with pro's for so long ololol".
And he shouldn't be banned from any event for being too good or whatever, he worked hard for it and it is a pleasure to see him destroy people left and right. I can imagine it's hard for the people facing him, though. But still, I'd rather get the opportunity to see vods, livecasts and reps of his matches than root for someone else that I couldn't give a rat's ass about (except ret).
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idra win because he practice with cj koreans, better practice than usual whites
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United States12607 Posts
On July 29 2009 19:45 nevamind wrote:
Didn't Idra lose to ret in the GOL tournament?
Ah, I think you're right! Totally forgot about that event, I'm sorry. I will edit in results.
I can't find results for this anywhere. The GoL website says IdrA was in group stages with ret, but he didn't make it as far as the Ro4. I have no idea what happened in the Ro32->Ro8.
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we counted the first game of the esl series that i won 2-1 for the gol tournament as well, since we had to play like 3 times that week. unfortunately that was the game i lost
my asl matches were all 2-0's before pj
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Calgary25987 Posts
Can't argue with numbers like that. Wow.
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
But those are some pretty impressive stats nonetheless. While you can't win every single game you play, making sure that you win series is more important.
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EPT
