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In TvZ, Flash is the exact opposite of Fantasy. Fantasy's bio control is unimpressive but his mech/valkonic/what-have-you play is incredibly deadly (in important starleague matches anyway). Flash on the other hand just gets rolled when he tries for fancy builds against top notch TvZ. I wish he'd forget about this biomech stuff, or at least save it for proleague matches against easy players, and go for solid builds in really critical matches.
All Flash needs is a secure main and natural, and a couple of raxes, and he can compete with any zerg on any map. His bio control is flawless and his muta defense is actually amazingly good --- it just seems bad because he keeps erring on the side of too little defense, and consequently loses in embarrassing fashion.
Flash has always been known to cut corners, but lately he's been taking it way too far. I'm sick of seeing him play fragile builds that involve expanding when his only unit support is a vulture (in case of lings!!!), a turret (in case of mutas!!!), and a goliath (extra precaution!!!). If anyone can afford to trade economy for early-game safety, it's Flash --- he's got the mechanics and game sense to come back from a slight economic lag, if it comes to that. What he doesn't have is the ability to hold off 9 mutas and 2 scourges with a valkyrie and a turret. It's just not possible.
What's more, if there ever was a time to be a good bio TvZ player, it's right now. Nowadays zergs have to deal with more crap from terrans than ever before --- everything from "standard" mech (whatever that is) to valk-mech to valkonic to 2-port wraith to fake-vulture-go-bio (hello Mind)... the list goes on. I don't know when the last time was that I saw 1rax->CC-> bionic play. Has it become bad? Don't tell me it sucks against 2-hatch muta, because it can't possibly suck more against 2-hatch muta than the stuff Flash has been doing lately.
tl;dr
Flash, why can't you play a safe bionic TvZ build that will let you capitalize on your great mechanics and bio control?
edit: Like this:
+ Show Spoiler +
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I agree, Flash plays way too risky I can't understand why. Apparently it works in practice or else he wouldn't do it right?
I just can't understand.....
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yeah I don't understand why flash insists on his builds :/
What he is doing is getting really old really fast
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Obviously flash feels he has the best chance to win on the current maps using these kinds of builds, or else he wouldn't be trying to do them.
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14 cc all over again? FlaSh really insists on gaining the economical advantage
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It seems like 2 hatch muta has been a good counter against his crazy new build
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On July 06 2009 09:32 il0seonpurpose wrote:
It seems like 2 hatch muta has been a good counter against his crazy new build
Do you really think Flash never faced 2 hatch muta when he practiced that build? I would rather say that Flash did some mistake that he normally doesn't do and together with Jaedongs good micro (which I think is a bit better than most zergs, in all circumstances) it just failed.
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Yeah Flash bio is freaking great. And his control v two hatch got to be extremely impressive....
Oh well.
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konadora
Singapore66156 Posts
The reason why Flash loses when he does all these 'fancy builds' is because he plays too greedily
Despite what situation he's in, he always tries to get his nat running, which means more areas to defend, which in turn means that his defense will be spread out and weaker, at least in one area.
His builds can also be dismantled by off-timing attacks. Take his game versus Yellow[Arnc] as an example.
Had Yarnc attacked a few seconds later after gathering all his mutas, Flash would have had 2 goliaths, a few turrets and a valkyrie up. His defense there was terrible. He lost the first goliath while trying to attack the mutas, eventually losing it and unable to make it 2 goliaths (which is much much more stronger than 1 goliath), which could have also allowed him to save his valkyrie.
It's just his playstyle that causes him to lose games. His build is decent.
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On July 06 2009 10:05 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2009 09:32 il0seonpurpose wrote:
It seems like 2 hatch muta has been a good counter against his crazy new build Do you really think Flash never faced 2 hatch muta when he practiced that build? I would rather say that Flash did some mistake that he normally doesn't do and together with Jaedongs good micro (which I think is a bit better than most zergs, in all circumstances) it just failed.
Well, in the game against Jaedong it's safe to assume that Flash was hoping to do a lot more damage with his bunker rush. It was JD's drone control that really won the game for him, since if he'd had a lower drone count going into his lair tech he would have had later mutas or fewer reinforcements once his muta harass started. Flash was actually close to stabilizing in that game, and if JD had been unable to afford ling reinforcements I think it might have turned out differently.
The bunker rush -> biomech strategy worked perfectly against Hoejja, which makes me think it's not necessarily a bad build, but against a player of Jaedong's calibur it's risky (to say the least). Basically I think bunker rushing Jaedong is almost never a good idea, unless the map is perfect for it (Blue Storm, Hwarangdo). Once the bunker rush failed Flash didn't really have any good options and probably would lost to mutas no matter what he tried to do, unless it were one-base turtling.
As always, Flash can do whatever he wants against B-class players and still win, but against the S-class he needs to play less greedily so that he can actually make it into the midgame.
On July 06 2009 10:14 konadora wrote:
Despite what situation he's in, he always tries to get his nat running, which means more areas to defend, which in turn means that his defense will be spread out and weaker, at least in one area.
Couldn't agree more. No matter what happens, Flash always tries to get the natural expansion up early, and sometimes it really costs him. Expanding and teching to academy/factory/armory right after a failed bunker rush is just asking for trouble.
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Anyone remember back in December or so when there were worries about Flash slipping a little bit? Turned out he was working on a slightly different TvZ style and he eventually jumped right back into things. I think the same thing's happening here, only we're actually getting to see some of his ideas in real play.
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What's more, if there ever was a time to be a good bio TvZ player, it's right now. Nowadays zergs have to deal with more crap from terrans than ever before --- everything from "standard" mech (whatever that is) to valk-mech to valkonic to 2-port wraith to fake-vulture-go-bio (hello Mind)... the list goes on.
Hey which InteR.Mind game are you talking about? I'd like to see...
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On July 06 2009 11:19 Musoeun wrote:
Anyone remember back in December or so when there were worries about Flash slipping a little bit? Turned out he was working on a slightly different TvZ style and he eventually jumped right back into things. I think the same thing's happening here, only we're actually getting to see some of his ideas in real play.
No player would ever use a build they are "working on" lol. They play like 30 games every single day, the builds Flash are using are complete, or else he wouldn't use them.
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On July 06 2009 11:19 Musoeun wrote:
Anyone remember back in December or so when there were worries about Flash slipping a little bit? Turned out he was working on a slightly different TvZ style and he eventually jumped right back into things. I think the same thing's happening here, only we're actually getting to see some of his ideas in real play.
His TvZ is probably going through "growing pains" right now, I just wish it hadn't happened right at the time of his OSL group of death. I'm sure he will eventually either improve or abandon his new build... but what lousy timing!
On July 06 2009 11:49 KP_CollectoR wrote:Show nested quote +
What's more, if there ever was a time to be a good bio TvZ player, it's right now. Nowadays zergs have to deal with more crap from terrans than ever before --- everything from "standard" mech (whatever that is) to valk-mech to valkonic to 2-port wraith to fake-vulture-go-bio (hello Mind)... the list goes on.
Hey which InteR.Mind game are you talking about? I'd like to see...
Game one of Mind vs Effort in GOM, I think. Mind goes vulture, wraith, bio transition off of (I think) one base and really throws Effort off balance with aggressive bio/tank play on Neo Medusa.
On July 06 2009 11:51 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2009 11:19 Musoeun wrote:
Anyone remember back in December or so when there were worries about Flash slipping a little bit? Turned out he was working on a slightly different TvZ style and he eventually jumped right back into things. I think the same thing's happening here, only we're actually getting to see some of his ideas in real play. No player would ever use a build they are "working on" lol. They play like 30 games every single day, the builds Flash are using are complete, or else he wouldn't use them.
Nobody can change their whole playstyle overnight. It's completely plausible (IMO) for a player to develop a new strat and take some time to hone it to perfection.
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On July 06 2009 09:12 sixghost wrote:
Obviously flash feels he has the best chance to win on the current maps using these kinds of builds, or else he wouldn't be trying to do them.
Not really. Maybe if he's using a new build and relying on its uniquess to throw the zerg off, then yes he has a better chance to win. But zergs have shown how fragile the build is to a quick lair and he insists on sticking with it.
I think his greed showed in his game vs FBH, although in an indirect manner. Yes, FBH seized the game with his great tank formation, but Flash's early third means that he didn't go for a Starport or 2fact build and couldn't sustain vision on FBH's tanks or have more tanks to back his army up. His 3rd indirectly put him into trouble, but in this case it saved him because FBH was never ahead economically. Or am I wrong?
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This is just pure speculation, but maybe Flash doesn't receive as good coaching and/or practice as other S-class players. Obviously there is a crapload of planning and practice involved for any strategy a progamer uses, which leads me to guess that Flash's practice with his teammates leads him to think these risky builds and risky tactics are airtight. Luxury has always had a unique playstyle, so playing against Flash in practice would probably produce weird results like a lot of Lux's games do. KTF's other Zergs just seem pretty crappy.
One possible reason KTF is struggling for a playoff spot despite having 3 starleague winners and Violet is the fact(?) that their players lack brilliant and experienced mentors who can help construct and perfect builds, tactics or playstyle like players on other teams do or did in the past (i.e. oov/fantasy, Nada/Mind, July/by.hero).
And maybe whenever Flash lost by going 14CC or from some other early game unit disadvantage KTF's coach just goes "well he's Flash, I'll just let him do whatever he wants and it'll work out." Flash is a creative player (like any player with a build named after him) but it seems like he's a one man strategical crew.
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EPT
