|
My friend and I have been arguing about the use of "ascertain" in the below sentence. My friend believes that it is incorrect because you need some additional word to make the sentence grammatically correct e.g. "ascertain to the reader".
However I beg to differ:
Im trying to say that I want to make the reader certain of the importance of the [topic at hand].
"The definition of obsolescence in the previous chapter was intentionally detailed in order to ascertain the reader, the importance of discernment between the differences of obsolescence"
Give me your thoughts and opinions
i googled "ascertain the reader"
and i came up with a few uses of the term by writers in philosophy on nietzche (strong contender for me) , so far 3 people have agreed with my friend, and only one with me, (but google has agreed with me in lots of counts as i found lots of uses of "ascertain one" "ascertain the reader's" i.e all forms of ascertain used in the (im not sure of the linguistic term)
but in the sense of using the word ascertain so as to make someone certain of something.
Edit: Oxford English Dictionary entry for "ascertain"
[a. OF. acertaine- tonic stem of acertene-r (late AF. asser-, ascer-), f. à to + certain, certain. In Eng. assimilated to certain; pronounced (@"s3;t@n) as late as 1650; the prefix as- for ac- began with the spelling as-sertayne, and is of course etymologically erroneous.]
I. To make subjectively certain: i.e. a person certain of a fact, or a thing certain to the mind.
†1. trans. To make (a person) certain, sure, or confident; to certify, assure; passing in looser usage into: To inform, apprise, tell. a. simply. Obs.
1465 Paston Lett. 531 II. 244 As I was credebly assartaynyed by a yeman. 1544 Bale Sir J. Oldcastell in Harl. Misc. (Malh.) I. 285 He was thoroughly assertained in his conscience for that conflyct of fayth. 1548 Phaër Æneid iii. (R.) Anchises I ascertaine then, and him declare the caas. 1602 Carew Cornwall 126a, Seeking by a fore-conjecture to bee ascertained. 1676 Bullokar, Ascertain, to assure, to certifie.
 
|
I would've used it the way you did.
|
Your friend is right, "ascertain the reader" is grammatically incorrect, it should be "ascertain to the reader".
Also there shouldn't be a comma after "reader".
However I think you'd be better off with a different word as ascertain doesn't really make sense there. I would suggest "in order to emphasize to the reader..." or "in order to establish to the reader..."
edit: as per your definition
I. To make subjectively certain: i.e. a person certain of a fact, or a thing certain to the mind.
Saying "ascertain the reader" makes "the reader" the direct object of ascertain. Doing this makes your sentence mean that the reader itself has been made subjectively certain, which is not what you want.
Saying "ascertain to the reader" makes "the reader" the indirect object, which is what you want - it makes your sentence mean that something has been made subjectively certain to the reader.
|
Verb - subject agreement is weird, It'd be better not to use "to acertain the reader."
I'd replace "reader" with an indirect object rather than the direct object.
|
|
|
to ascertain something is to like learn something, not to impart knowledge to somebody
the direct object of ascertain has to be the thing you learn
in the case of "ascertain the reader's," it's not ascertaining the reader, it's ascertaining something that the reader knows.
merriam webster def:
Main Entry:
as·cer·tain
Pronunciation:
\ˌa-sər-ˈtān\
Function:
transitive verb
Etymology:
Middle English acertainen to inform, give assurance to, from Anglo-French acerteiner, from a- (from Latin ad-) + certein, certain certain
Date:
15th century
1archaic : to make certain, exact, or precise
2: to find out or learn with certainty
definition 2 is the only commonly used one
example sentence: i ascertained the true nature of liosama's stupidity
also you're a whore
|
|
|
United States3824 Posts
If you are rolling with the definition that you listed, that it is "To make certain," which I feel is comperable to a thing becoming certain of something then it doesn't make sense the way its written. What it looks like is that the book is becoming certain of the existence of the person.
Would you say that a person can become "ascertained?" Because if so then your definition works. But the way I read the definition is that a thing is becoming certain of a concept, that the word "ascertained" marks that acquiring of certainty and is not a property of a being itself.
Might be different in Australia though.
|
On April 28 2009 15:17 cgrinker wrote:
If you are rolling with the definition that you listed, that it is "To make certain," which I feel is comperable to a thing becoming certain of something then it doesn't make sense the way its written. What it looks like is that the book is becoming certain of the existence of the person.
Would you say that a person can become "ascertained?" Because if so then your definition works. But the way I read the definition is that a thing is becoming certain of a concept, that the word "ascertained" marks that acquiring of certainty and is not a property of a being itself.
Might be different in Australia though.
Yeha that is where i originally got confused, and no matter how many times i re-read my sentence i still couldn't see it.
|
On April 28 2009 14:58 liosama wrote:
"The definition of obsolescence in the previous chapter was intentionally detailed in order to ascertain the reader, the importance of discernment between the differences of obsolescence"
Disclaimer: English is not my first language.
"The definition of obsolescence in the previous chapter was intentionally detailed in order to ascertain the importance of discernment between the differences of obsolescence to the reader"
^ is what i would write ^
|
|
|
I very much prefer underscore in place of ascertain. Your friend, however, is right: the reader is an indirect object here and as such you need the "to", because you are ascertaining "the importance of discernment" to him.
|
The way that sentence is structured you need to go with your friend's recommendation. It may work out as a linguistic novelty if you omit the last portion of the sentence after the comma and instead start a new sentence, but I'm guessing you don't want that.
* Tried to pull off the same syntax in Swedish, but doesn't work there either 
|
5391 Posts
On April 28 2009 15:05 Crunchums wrote:
Your friend is right, "ascertain the reader" is grammatically incorrect, it should be "ascertain to the reader".
This one.
|
When you gotta fill a page......
I BEEN THERE BRUTHA. Nice long sentences.... but couldn't you have said that better?
"The definition of obsolescence in the previous chapter was intentionally detailed in order to ascertain the reader, the importance of discernment between the differences of obsolescence"
+ my opinion =
As detailed in the last chapter, it is important for the reader to discern between the multiple types of obsolescence.
|
Yes, it should be "ascertain to the reader" in modern English.
Even according to the obsolete usage that you cite, it should be "ascertain the reader of the importance..."
PS Am I the only one who finds it amusing that the OP cites an obsolete definition in support of a sentence about the importance of discernment between the differences of obsolencence?
edit: never mind that last, it seems that Oxford lists all usages of ascertain as obsolete aside from "To find out or learn for a certainty by experiment, examination, or investigation; to make sure of, get to know. (The only current use.)"
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
