Wow wtf is that. I only played the gundam mod. I think it was an official blizzard release. Lurkers shooting fire and overpowered firebats etc. I tried playing the normal campaign with the mod on, but there was this terran stage where some neutral valks (and other units) come out and take out some defending zerg units for you to establish your base there, but the new valks were too shitty and got raped by the mutas.

IskatuMesk

Canada969 Posts

March 11 2009 06:07 GMT

#10

On March 11 2009 14:59 pangshai wrote:
I think it was an official blizzard release.

Blizzard does not support modding in the least, much less "release" anything related to modding.

The mod above is Open Rebellion.

MamiyaOtaru

United States1687 Posts

March 11 2009 06:47 GMT

#11

Mod is Open Rebellion, yeah.

I'm impressed that ppl took the time to sit down and draw out new models.

person. Sniped Ash did the artwork. Took him some time, but the result is nicely consistent.

it's old as hell

Open Rebellion has been around for a long time. Bajadulce over at Brood War AI did some work and has it running with 1.15.0, with some nasty AI for when your friends aren't Star Wars nerds.

BG on the pic: I was Empire. His supply is super low because I pushed him early with stormtroopers and really damaged his econ. He was just headed out for some last ditch harass with his speeders when he ran into me about to raze his base. 10 of them lost in 3 seconds made me super happy, I really really hate them.

(In the following, building names are approximate, as the tech tree is totally different from SC, just to give you an idea of the amount of buildings required)
Rebels get airspeeders really early. They only need to make Barracks, then Factory (where speeders are produced). To fight them off efficiently at the start, Empire needs hoverscouts which you get with Gateway, then RoboBay then Support Bay. To get air to fight back with (sucky TIE fightersm which cost more and have Ion Surge aka stimpack but no way to heal) you need Garrison, RoboBay, Stargate, Fleet Beacon. Or Gunboats, which need Stargate and Arbiter Tribunal. Of course by then rebels have put up a Starport and are pumping Xwings along with Speeders from the Factory.

The other guy in the gif has never beaten me in a 1v1 in BW but the only way I can beat him Imp vs Reb is early trooper pushes. I've come to the conclusion he gets air too soon, which Bajadulce suspected a good year ago. Expanding without a lot more units is risky as his speeders can be anywhere. They take out probes in a hurry (for some reason they stack naturally, working on that).

So I've been editing the tree a little. I moved speeders to the Starport, Xwings now require a Port with a Control Tower. So that he can still build something right away out of the Factory, I made FreeRunners not require an Armory. I've been experimenting with TIEs' Ion Surge not take health. Considering slow regen instead, or losing a smaller portion of health.

Also, since Freerunners are rather expensive (200 mineral, some amount of gas I forget) and speeders are cheap (70 min I think?) who would build Runners instead of going straight to Port and Speeders? It just delays them. I mean, having them from the same building as X-wings means you can't pump them both without making more Ports, so that's nice. But I was considering bumping down the price of Runners to be closer to AT-STs and bumping up the price of speeders to be closer to TIEs. Also I was thinking about removing the Fleet Beacon requirement for TIEs so empire can build an offensive unit from the Stargate right away.

This seems to help, but it's hard to tell he's such a chobo (as am I, just not as bad). Still Imperial Air takes forever to come out. Possible further tweaks below.

Currently you need the Landing Pad and TIE launch bay to get TFs. Pad and Missile Bay for gunboats. Pad, TIE bay AND Missile Bay for TIE Bombers. I was thinking about just Pad for TFs, Pad and Missile Bay for Gunboats, Pad, Missile Bay and Bomber Hangar (renamed TIE Bay) for bombers. That way TIEs could come out about as fast as airspeeders.

My problem with this is every change I make seems to make them more of a mirror. Right now both sides infantry is very similar. I mean Rebel Pathfinders are faster, and Troopers can get maelstrom aka Stun and adrenal upgrades while Rebels get Medics (21Bs), but the initial units (troopers and pathfinders) are very similar. None of that ranged vs melee like with marines vs lots or lings. Currently you would transition into vehicles vs air, where air has a major mobility advantage and no cost downside. But with my changes I think you'd transition into vehicle vs vehicle then air vs air. There are differences, and it's certainly no TvT mirror, but I worry any changes towards balance just make them too similar to be interesting, with no timing windows.

It doesn't help that I suck and the guys I play with are even worse. I'm going to talk to the guys at BWAI about this (I've been inactive there for way too long) but if anyone here has any feedback I'd love to hear it.

long post

AcrossFiveJulys

United States3612 Posts

March 11 2009 07:00 GMT

#12

On March 11 2009 15:47 MamiyaOtaru wrote:

* snip *

long post

Well, are you going to put up a link for us to try it out ourselves, or are you going to tease us with development tweaks?

IskatuMesk

Canada969 Posts

March 11 2009 07:01 GMT

#13

I'm a regular at BWAI. While Baja did the AI, I don't believe he has taken any effort to rebalance the mod - just add AI. I may be wrong though, I don't follow the workings of other mods very much. I know for a fact that Ash has been out of the picture for quite a long time and won't be coming back.

MamiyaOtaru

United States1687 Posts

March 11 2009 07:17 GMT

#14

True, Baja hasn't done a ton to change balance; he's plenty busy with other stuff and what he did was a whole lot of work as it is. But the tech tree in ORAI is different from OR, so he's done something. Anyway I should probably get my ass over there and discuss it with him.

When I first showed up there I was a terrible newb, so I sort of took some time (10 months? lol) off to actually get somewhat decent at SC (and ended up here). I'm still terrible but I feel better about tweaking balance in a mod. Amusingly, my interest initially and my early efforts were about making the rapetrain AI easier so I could have a chance. Now I'm more interested in getting the multiplayer balanced.

Well, are you going to put up a link for us to try it out ourselves, or are you going to tease us with development tweaks?

The Mod
That's the untweaked version of course, only my chobo buddies have my balance edits so far.

IskatuMesk

Canada969 Posts

March 11 2009 07:21 GMT

#15

I think he doesn't balance it further because it's still technically Ash's mod, and he doesn't want to diverge from the original goal too much. If he did alter it, I'm sure he had his reasons (possibly AI-related?). In any case, it might take some persuasion to get him to update it again. Perhaps you could propose your changes to him as an official release/update?

I'm actually surprised to find a few people interested in modding here. I'm a rather experienced modder myself... perhaps I should post a bit more.

MamiyaOtaru

United States1687 Posts

March 11 2009 07:26 GMT

#16

I'll do so. I'm happy to do as much as I can myself. Editing the tree (down to messing with requirement strings) I can do. Heck, he was going to have me in charge of making an easier AI before I disappeared. Check my posting history there, I was actually active for a while. Time to be so again I think. And good to see you again, even if you have no idea who I am haha

ps: if you want to tell him I'm working on stuff again go ahead. The longer I've been away from somewhere the more awkward it is for me to show up and say "hay guise Im back", sort of like Tycho here (the part about Never Logging On Again)

IskatuMesk

Canada969 Posts

March 11 2009 07:39 GMT

#17

Your name is a bit familiar but I haven't been too active until very recently when I picked up Armageddon Onslaught again with the intention of finishing it. If Baja does decide to let you update the mod and you need to figure some stuff out, don't hesitate to ask me.

Tekin

2711 Posts

March 11 2009 07:49 GMT

#18

Epic fail by the airspeeders

fanatacist

10319 Posts

March 11 2009 11:10 GMT

#19

Lol it looks so close but so off to me because I'm an insomniac. I was like wait... WAIT.

Yea, it's 7:10 am, class in 3 hours and I haven't slept woooop