• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:42
CEST 23:42
KST 06:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China1Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL63Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?13FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster16
StarCraft 2
General
Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? PiG Sty Festival #5: Playoffs Preview + Groups Recap
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
SC uni coach streams logging into betting site Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion Practice Partners (Official)
Tourneys
[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 611 users

What of the build orders?

Blogs > Osmoses
Post a Reply
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
March 05 2009 09:24 GMT
#1
OK, I see alot of new users register at teamliquid and immediately start a thread asking for basic advice and build orders, and like a good little elitist I scoff in an indignant kind of way and tell them to read the threads that have already been posted.

Now, reflecting upon my own superiority, I know all the basics, I got every nuance of what you can do with the keyboard and mouse down to reflexes (cloning, hotkeying, the F keys, etc) buuuut I actually don't know a whole lot of build orders, and the ones I know I have a very slim grasp on what they are good for. I think I got a total of four build orders for all three races.

My main race is Zerg, and I know 2 hatch muta... Oh shit that's actually it. Whenever I decide not to go 2 hatch muta I always wing it, putting down a hydralisk den slightly before the lair finishes or another hatch somewhere in between or something.

I've looked through the strategy forum, and boy there are alot of build orders in there, but I doubt they are very well organized in terms of viability and pros/cons, which is what I'm the most interested in. What does it mean to overpool? What exactly do you gain or lose by making an overlord before your spawning pool? What does 3hatch muta do better or worse than 2 hatch? Is getting the second gas right when you put up the spire optimal for 6 mutas or for your economy in general?

I feel these questions are often overlooked when reading about general build orders. I mean, I get the fact that 9 pooling will get you 6 lings faster than if you went 12 hatch, but what implications follow with this? Is map control and the small chance of surprising your opponent worth the later expansion?

See, this is what I've been doing ever since Starcraft first came out: winging it. Playing it by ear. Sometimes I get steamrolled and I wonder what the hell just happened. Then I read about how this or that build order or putting up one more sunken "lost" someone a game. Are the margins really that small? Could it be that I would become Super-Osmoses if I only learned the underlying implications of build orders?

Does someone feel inclined to perhaps make a list of the common build orders and their uses? Specifically, what exactly will I and my opponent gain or lose by me going with bo A instead of bo B.

*
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
March 05 2009 09:27 GMT
#2
I remember chatting with Day and he'd talk about how he'd consider the distance between mains in TvZ and how many seconds that'd give him extra to delay sunkens etc which are the kinds of things you shoudl consider when making decisions (and BO choices are such decisions)

as a caveat the setting of this conversation was how Day would be thinking of this during sex in order to "delay" the inevitable and get his mind off the action
ToyotaDemon
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Australia150 Posts
March 05 2009 11:43 GMT
#3
Umm for 3 hatch ZvT there are some detailed threads in the Recommended Threads explaining pretty much everything, 3 hatch has changed but not dramatically over the last years, you have to be much more aware of what the terran is doing nowadays and cant just blindly 3hatch like you kinda use to be able to. Should also definitely learn the various ways to deal with mech.

Also theres quite a lot of builds for ZvP in the Ahzz and Superiorwolf guides, that should get you started, got me started and allowed me some wins when I was playing around with zerg, but it was mainly to see timings and stuff for PvZ.
rawr
miseiler
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States1389 Posts
March 05 2009 16:42 GMT
#4
On March 05 2009 18:27 thedeadhaji wrote:
as a caveat the setting of this conversation was how Day would be thinking of this during sex in order to "delay" the inevitable and get his mind off the action


That would totally put me over the edge.
"Jinro soo manly wearing only a T-Shirt while the Koreans freeze in their jackets" -- Double_O
"He's from Sweden, man. We have to fight polar bears on our way to school." -- Yusername
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-05 17:18:42
March 05 2009 17:13 GMT
#5
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-06 04:39:25
March 06 2009 04:39 GMT
#6
mikeymoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada7170 Posts
March 06 2009 05:35 GMT
#7
On March 06 2009 02:13 fusionsdf wrote:

Indeed.
o_x | Ow. | 1003 ESPORTS dollars | If you have any questions about bans please PM Kennigit
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
March 06 2009 06:47 GMT
#8
God I hate you people
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
March 06 2009 07:23 GMT
#9
I have pretty much the same problem. I looked over the BO's for every race in the recommended threads, and a lot of them are very descriptive, but for the most part, it doesnt really explain "You are doing this to achieve exactly this". For most people on TL I guess its already obvious what is meant, but to people just starting out like myself, its really hard to execute these BO's to their full potential without knowing what exactly am I doing and why.
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL: ProLeague
18:00
Grand Finals - bo9
Dewalt vs Bonyth
ZZZero.O615
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Livibee 92
ProTech81
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 615
Terrorterran 43
League of Legends
Grubby4460
Dendi1322
Counter-Strike
fl0m1811
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King204
Chillindude77
Westballz49
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor803
Liquid`Hasu661
Other Games
summit1g4866
FrodaN2916
tarik_tv790
mouzStarbuck327
Pyrionflax208
ViBE124
elazer94
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick44472
EGCTV1715
BasetradeTV47
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 62
• Adnapsc2 25
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• 3DClanTV 101
• blackmanpl 6
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler140
League of Legends
• masondota2734
Other Games
• imaqtpie2305
• Shiphtur360
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
13h 18m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 12h
WardiTV European League
1d 18h
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
FEL
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 2v2 Season 3
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.