• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 19:42
CET 01:42
KST 09:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win
Tourneys
StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night
Brood War
General
Let's talk about Metropolis [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Foreign Brood War
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation Path of Exile ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
YouTube Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
Physical Exertion During Gam…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2049 users

What of the build orders?

Blogs > Osmoses
Post a Reply
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
March 05 2009 09:24 GMT
#1
OK, I see alot of new users register at teamliquid and immediately start a thread asking for basic advice and build orders, and like a good little elitist I scoff in an indignant kind of way and tell them to read the threads that have already been posted.

Now, reflecting upon my own superiority, I know all the basics, I got every nuance of what you can do with the keyboard and mouse down to reflexes (cloning, hotkeying, the F keys, etc) buuuut I actually don't know a whole lot of build orders, and the ones I know I have a very slim grasp on what they are good for. I think I got a total of four build orders for all three races.

My main race is Zerg, and I know 2 hatch muta... Oh shit that's actually it. Whenever I decide not to go 2 hatch muta I always wing it, putting down a hydralisk den slightly before the lair finishes or another hatch somewhere in between or something.

I've looked through the strategy forum, and boy there are alot of build orders in there, but I doubt they are very well organized in terms of viability and pros/cons, which is what I'm the most interested in. What does it mean to overpool? What exactly do you gain or lose by making an overlord before your spawning pool? What does 3hatch muta do better or worse than 2 hatch? Is getting the second gas right when you put up the spire optimal for 6 mutas or for your economy in general?

I feel these questions are often overlooked when reading about general build orders. I mean, I get the fact that 9 pooling will get you 6 lings faster than if you went 12 hatch, but what implications follow with this? Is map control and the small chance of surprising your opponent worth the later expansion?

See, this is what I've been doing ever since Starcraft first came out: winging it. Playing it by ear. Sometimes I get steamrolled and I wonder what the hell just happened. Then I read about how this or that build order or putting up one more sunken "lost" someone a game. Are the margins really that small? Could it be that I would become Super-Osmoses if I only learned the underlying implications of build orders?

Does someone feel inclined to perhaps make a list of the common build orders and their uses? Specifically, what exactly will I and my opponent gain or lose by me going with bo A instead of bo B.

*
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
March 05 2009 09:27 GMT
#2
I remember chatting with Day and he'd talk about how he'd consider the distance between mains in TvZ and how many seconds that'd give him extra to delay sunkens etc which are the kinds of things you shoudl consider when making decisions (and BO choices are such decisions)

as a caveat the setting of this conversation was how Day would be thinking of this during sex in order to "delay" the inevitable and get his mind off the action
ToyotaDemon
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Australia150 Posts
March 05 2009 11:43 GMT
#3
Umm for 3 hatch ZvT there are some detailed threads in the Recommended Threads explaining pretty much everything, 3 hatch has changed but not dramatically over the last years, you have to be much more aware of what the terran is doing nowadays and cant just blindly 3hatch like you kinda use to be able to. Should also definitely learn the various ways to deal with mech.

Also theres quite a lot of builds for ZvP in the Ahzz and Superiorwolf guides, that should get you started, got me started and allowed me some wins when I was playing around with zerg, but it was mainly to see timings and stuff for PvZ.
rawr
miseiler
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States1389 Posts
March 05 2009 16:42 GMT
#4
On March 05 2009 18:27 thedeadhaji wrote:
as a caveat the setting of this conversation was how Day would be thinking of this during sex in order to "delay" the inevitable and get his mind off the action


That would totally put me over the edge.
"Jinro soo manly wearing only a T-Shirt while the Koreans freeze in their jackets" -- Double_O
"He's from Sweden, man. We have to fight polar bears on our way to school." -- Yusername
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-05 17:18:42
March 05 2009 17:13 GMT
#5
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-06 04:39:25
March 06 2009 04:39 GMT
#6
mikeymoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada7170 Posts
March 06 2009 05:35 GMT
#7
On March 06 2009 02:13 fusionsdf wrote:

Indeed.
o_x | Ow. | 1003 ESPORTS dollars | If you have any questions about bans please PM Kennigit
Osmoses
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Sweden5302 Posts
March 06 2009 06:47 GMT
#8
God I hate you people
Excuse me hun, but what is your name? Vivian? I woke up next to you naked and, uh, did we, um?
TheAntZ
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Israel6248 Posts
March 06 2009 07:23 GMT
#9
I have pretty much the same problem. I looked over the BO's for every race in the recommended threads, and a lot of them are very descriptive, but for the most part, it doesnt really explain "You are doing this to achieve exactly this". For most people on TL I guess its already obvious what is meant, but to people just starting out like myself, its really hard to execute these BO's to their full potential without knowing what exactly am I doing and why.
43084 | Honeybadger: "So july, you're in the GSL finals. How do you feel?!" ~ July: "HUNGRY."
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL: GosuLeague
22:00
S21: RO16 Round 4 of 5
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft436
WinterStarcraft432
elazer 163
CosmosSc2 37
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 520
Artosis 510
NaDa 32
ggaemo 13
Dota 2
syndereN1467
League of Legends
C9.Mang0200
Counter-Strike
Foxcn154
minikerr31
Other Games
Grubby4438
summit1g3062
Day[9].tv639
JimRising 257
XaKoH 186
Maynarde116
Livibee74
ViBE59
ToD45
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick529
BasetradeTV124
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 86
• davetesta43
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22282
League of Legends
• Doublelift4687
Other Games
• imaqtpie2227
• Day9tv639
• Shiphtur70
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
18m
StarCraft2.fi
16h 18m
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
23h 18m
The PondCast
1d 9h
WardiTV 2025
1d 11h
StarCraft2.fi
1d 16h
WardiTV 2025
2 days
StarCraft2.fi
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Sziky vs JDConan
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs TBD
herO vs Zoun
WardiTV 2025
4 days
IPSL
4 days
Tarson vs DragOn
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Revival: Season 3
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
RSL Offline Finals
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.