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ICCup report 4

Blogs > Dromar
Post a Reply
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
December 17 2008 11:05 GMT
#1
So a new season has started for ICCup, and just in time for my winter break. Last semester was my first semester back after over a year off of college and studying, and also my first semester as a teaching assistant, so it was pretty busy, and didn't give me much time to play SC. Though I did manage to keep up with proleague and the individual leagues. Anyways I'm gonna get right into it.

I've played 26 games on ICCup so far this season, 15 1v1s and 11 2v2s. One of the 2v2s though must have been disqualified or something, because even though I lost, I got +0 points. I think one of the opponents disconnected after I left (game was pretty long, I left after 38 minutes, game went on for another 5 minutes after I left apparently). So I'm counted for 25 games.

1v1 analysis:

Zerg(15 games)
(2)ZvZ: 2-0 100 %
(8)ZvP: 1-7 12.5%
(5)ZvT: 1-4 20.0%

overall: 4-11 26.6%

ZvZ: I've played 2 ZvZs, and won both. The first game the guy basically tried to get away with a build that you can't get away with in ZvZ, and so I had superior ling numbers, with ling speed, against his smaller number of slowlings and a morphing sunk. gg.
The second game was against a pretty terrible player. I made a pretty big mistake early on (I saw one of his drones at the edge of my vision, and thought "5pool sunk rush" and totally reacted wrongly by freaking out and grabbing all my drones and running for the ramp. I honestly have no idea what I was thinking, since I would be safer by the mins where I can drone-drill anyway, not to mention my pool was nearly finished, and I was doing a build that's safe against the 5pool sunk rush. Stupid of me.), yet fortunately came out way on top since the player was so bad. Really, ZvZ is a pretty low economy game, so you shouldn't have 400+ minerals and 200+ gas without ling speed or lair started. So free win there, even though I reacted really poorly to what turned out to be nothing more than a drone scout (who does that in ZvZ anyway?).
Anyway, the build I've been using lately for ZvZ is just overpool speed to lair. Pretty simple. Gives room for aggression, defense, relatively quick teching, etc.

ZvP: If you read my last ICCup report, you may remember that I was enjoying some relative success in ZvP. Well, that's over with. First off, this first week of ICCup has me playing against players that are generally better than me, so maybe it's not as bad as I make it out to be. But the fact is I basically have no game plan when entering the game, so I end up doing basically nothing until they steamroll me. I may have had a plan before, but I've since forgotten, it's been so long since I've played SC. Before I go into my next ZvP, I need to have a plan laid out for my whole game. Obviously I am able to adapt, but I need to have a plan in the first place of what to do in the standard situation. The only game I won was an overpool speedling runby and the guy just left after I killed most of his probes. Not a great victory.

ZvT: So, I've been trying all kinds of new builds in ZvT, and I've been getting steamrolled by 250+ APM Terrans who I'm guessing are actually way better than D level. My only win was from a Terran who did proxy rax in the center on Python, and my cross-map scout on 9 found it, and I reacted semi-properly.
I've come to realize that I need to just play standard more, and that standard is standard for a reason. It's generally a strong build. Also, I've noticed that my standard play has been lacking in the muta harass department, resulting in Terran moving out before I'm ready and me not being able to defend my third. Well, that's pretty much always happened, but what I've noticed is that I don't supplement my initial 8/9 mutas, while progamers and other FPVods I've watched do. I've just been getting the initial 8 or 9 and then going directly to lurker tech.

Anyway, my next step is to play more standardly, in order to get back on track with strong builds, and to know what I'm planning on doing next, rather than just winging it ingame.



Questions:

ZvZ:
1. Are 12hatch and 12pool simply inferior builds to 9pool and overpool unless you plan on taking your nat for the extra gas? Seems like 9pool and overpool get faster lings and faster gas, and having a few less drones doesn't even matter really since ZvZ is so gas-driven.

ZvP:
Eh, nothing here, I know exactly why I suck at ZvP. I don't emphasize macro enough, and I have no game plan, and my micro isn't godly, so I pretty much completely fall apart as soon as protoss get's aggressive.

ZvT:
1. Is there ever a reason (not map-specific) to do an open other than 12hatch in ZvT? In a recent thread, Idra addressed this question, basically saying, "just every once in a while to keep the Terran from 14cc every game." OK, that's fine, but 14cc is so rare in ZvT, I've only ever seen it once in my games. But if I choose to do a non-12hatch open, how do I follow that up? It's going to be economically weaker, generally will deal little to no damage to the terran, and even the more aggressive ZvT builds (like 2hatch muta or 2hatch lurker) start with 12hatch.
1. Why does everyone build six lings initially? I've been toying with the idea of whoring out a couple extra drones and only building two lings. This would be coupled with a relatively quick sunk to keep out any future scouting SCVs.
Pros:
A)little bit more drone-whoring
B)you're gonna need the sunk anyway
C)keeps out scouts and keeps you safe from the Terran's possible retaliation with a really early push (rare anyway)
Cons:
A)harder to kill initial scout with 2 lings than with 6
B)??? I dunno, sunks are expensive, but as I mentioned, you're going to have to eventually get at least one, and the "1 less drone so early" argument doesn't hold since you have 2 more drones rather than 4 lings already.
This could even be followed up with ling speed + mass lings
which he probably won't expect after scouting only 2 initial lings, or sneaky tech, or just standard play.
So, why 6 lings rather than 2 lings and a sunk?


2v2 analysis:

10 games; 7-3 70%

So far, I've played Z every game, although I'm considering playing R, like I do in 3v3 hunters on bnet. That said, every game I've done the same build, and I've been pretty satisfied with it so far:
overpool, 3 drones, extractor, hatch before lings (at a strategic location, like atop the ramp on Python), lings, ling speed, take 2 drones off gas, constant ling pumping (maybe squeeze in a drone if you can/should), get lair with the next 100 gas, shortly after put 2 drones back on gas.
Maybe it would have to be changed when playing on a map other than Python, since python allows for easier defense once the hatch by ramp is up, allowing for ramp blocking with lings with sunk(s) if needed. It's reasonably aggressive with speedlings, and also gets muta tech pretty quickly. Though of course, like most things in 2v2, you have to tailor your strategy a bit based on the map, your ally, your opponent's, and what everybody has been doing. But that's been my general game plan so far, and it's worked pretty well. One loss was because of a total noob ally, the other two I just got outplayed.

As always, comments and constructive criticism welcome.

***
Lurgee
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Australia252 Posts
December 17 2008 12:41 GMT
#2
In ZvT to the best of my knowledge you follow up a 12pool with 13~ hat -> standard play and a 9pool with 2hat tech builds (or 1hat lurker at lower levels). If you want another zerg to 2v2 with some time, /f add Treefingers ^_^.
s.a.y
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Croatia3840 Posts
December 17 2008 13:17 GMT
#3
On December 17 2008 21:41 Lurgee wrote:
In ZvT to the best of my knowledge you follow up a 12pool with 13~ hat -> standard play and a 9pool with 2hat tech builds (or 1hat lurker at lower levels). If you want another zerg to 2v2 with some time, /f add Treefingers ^_^.


too many radiohead nicknames per player ^^
I am not good with quotes
Zortch
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada635 Posts
December 17 2008 16:54 GMT
#4
Its not uncommon to only make 2 lings in ZvT is it -- right at the beginning that is.

If you're interested, check out Chill's FPVODS for ZvP. I did and it really really helped out.
Respect is everything. ~ARchon
Dromar
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States2145 Posts
December 17 2008 20:43 GMT
#5
On December 18 2008 01:54 Zortch wrote:
Its not uncommon to only make 2 lings in ZvT is it -- right at the beginning that is.

If you're interested, check out Chill's FPVODS for ZvP. I did and it really really helped out.


Yeah I've been rewatching those recently, and they've helped me realize that I don't have a solid enough game plan going into the games.
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