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v1.1: Added info on Valkyrie numbers, what to in the Mid and Late game
The following is a look at Valkaryie use in TvZ.
OK first off, DISCLAIMER:
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I'm putting this as a guide but I'm only D+ so thats why I have Blogged it rather than put it in the stratergy forum. If it gets at least some approval maybe I will move it, who knows. Additionally I have only so far tested out my build(s) vs a D/D- friend. When I do have the chance to use it on iCCup I will either update this or make a new blog.
I would also like to make clear that this is not an 'ultimate build', nor is it likely to shake the foundations of BW as we know it (well,you never know
). It is simply my findings based on experimentation, reading and theorycrafting
I would also like to make clear that this is not an 'ultimate build', nor is it likely to shake the foundations of BW as we know it (well,you never know
). It is simply my findings based on experimentation, reading and theorycraftingAlso, before commenting I suggest you do some background reading:
Terran Revolutionist by Day[9]
[I] Valkyrie Use, TvZ by Nintu
and some background watching:
BoxeR vs Baxter GOMTV G1 - InspirationBoxeR vs Baxter GOMTV G2 - InspirationFurther videos can be found in the above threads.
Without further adieu...
9 Depot (then scout)
11 Rax
15 Depot
20 Command Center (off 2 marines, then pump more)
21 Gas
24 Depot
26 Factory
Around this time (30ish) your CC will finish, so transfer a good number of SCVs and build a bunker, you should have around 5 marines. I prefer to put 3 in the bunker and 2 plus an SCV on the ramp/choke to prevent run-bys. When the factory finishes you should put down the next 3 building simultaneously:
34 StarPort
34 Armoury
34 Ebay (followed by immediate turrets)
38 Gas
38 Starport
40 +1 Air Weapons
42 Control Tower 1 (followed by Immediate Valkyrie)
Etc...
Do not cut SCVs, unless you need the supply for a Valkyrie (tsk tsk build those depots!). I have only included a minimal amount of marines and only one bunker, although you should have plenty of excess minerals to keep up constant marine production and add bunkers after the factory goes down.
This build relies heavily on scouting.
It is safe vs 3 hatch muta
Mutas will be arriving at your base at about 7.30 into the game. Your first Valkyrie is out by 6:50 with 2 more on the way.
It is also 'safe' vs 3 hatch lurker
By the time lurkers make it to your front door (about 8 minutes in) you will have plenty of turrets up and bunkers at the front. This ofcourse relies on you scouting the build, which should not be too difficult with air dominance. Once scouted pump tanks and get siege, even if it means cutting valks for a short while. (i didnt put an addon in my build but its only 50 gas which wou should have spare after the port and armoury go down.)
It is unsafe vs 2 hatch muta
Mutas will be arriving at your base at about 6.30 into the game. Turrets will be up in time (by around 6 mins) but Valkyries will not arrive for another 20 seconds or so
)It is unsafe vs 2 hatch lurker
I do not have a solid timing for 2 hatch lurkers, but I am presuming it is around 7 minutes. Please let me know if you know of a timing. From this assumtion you will have turrets up in time for detection, but it will be much harder to scout. Pump tanks and get siege (as with 'vs 3 hatch lurker')
For both the 2 hatch openings the best scouting I can suggest is to keep your SCV alive in thier base to see whether they go 3rd hatch or gas and quick lair, then put down more bunkers at the front and more turrets if they go for the lair.
This build also relies on denying the scout.
This is comparitivly easy compared to scouting. Basic things really:
Block your ramp with marines to prevent lings running by your bunker (
July style).Place your tech near the middle of your base so that overlords will have a long way to travel if they want to suicide scout. Keep a marine about to fend off lords floating about. His scouting drone should be long dead by the time you place your gas down.
Mid Game
Once your valks are up, I dont recommend venturing out with them untiul you have 3 or 4, unless you have neutralised the muta harass or are confident he isnt going air. Even at this point watch out for scourge which will be a threat until you have a 'critical mass' at about 6-8 +1 Valkyries.
Some people have asked below about how many you should get. 3-4 will decimate Mutas. The build i have above is designed to get 3 Valkyries out by the time the Mutas arrive from a 3 hatch buiId, effectivly negating the harass.
The 2nd half of this stratergy is to go Overlord hunting. I think 8 is the most you will ever need. At this point they are at a 'critical mass' level so scourge will have a hard time touching them, unlesss micro'ed extremely well. Overlord groups will pop in literally 1 second, so the amount of counterfire from Hydras and Spores is so minimal that you wont be needing to replace them. I suggest switching to Science Vessels and a Dropship or two. Your valkyries can be used as an escort for the dropships and vessels to prevent them getting scourged off.
After you have started pumping Valkyries, you can transition into MnM or Metal. The merits of these are covered in Day[9] and Nintus threads quite well, so read those for a more indepth look. I believe it is quite map dependant, as certain maps favour Metal (Katrina) and some dont (Luna). If they persist with a spire build, MnM will counter the scourges well, as you can flee your Valkyries back to them. However mass Tanks counter Hydra/Lurker which would seem like the most likely route Zerg will take after seeing the Valkyries (good luck morphing those lurkers with red supply
).Late Game
The late game weakness to this stratergy will be Defilers with plague, especially if you went Metal. As long as you are killing his overlords, he will have a hard time getting a defiler out, and you should have scouted the tech as you are all over his base.
If the Zerg has played well, he will have most of the map, although very little forces to defend it. Mass up your army and roll out, take a base and finish him.
Closing remarks
I dont feel like covering the specific correct counters to this build as they are being discussed in Nintu's thread (above). I may add these later as i get to play more games and gain experience with it. Feel free to mention them below.
If anyone wants to help refine this build go ahead, post your findings here please.
If anyone wants to practice vs this build, or test some timings, PM me, I am usually available on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and weekends.
The timings i used for zerg are as follows:
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2 hatch mutas 6.30 mins
ToT. Mondragon vs TSL_Beaver game 2 (TSL replay pack)
3 hatch muta 7.30 mins
Saviour vs Flash (TL Replays)
ToT. Mondragon vs TSL_Beaver game 1 (TSL replay pack)
3 hatch lurker 8 mins
Savior vs Flash (TL Replays)
ToT. Mondragon vs TSL_Beaver game 2 (TSL replay pack)
3 hatch muta 7.30 mins
Saviour vs Flash (TL Replays)
ToT. Mondragon vs TSL_Beaver game 1 (TSL replay pack)
3 hatch lurker 8 mins
Savior vs Flash (TL Replays)
Discussion commence....
