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[BlizzCon] Pics + SC2 Analysis

Blogs > PanoRaMa
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PanoRaMa
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States5069 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-12 20:49:16
October 12 2008 08:20 GMT
#1
I'm absolutely exhausted and I should really sleep but I'd like to get everything written before I forget. BlizzCon, as expected, was fucking great. I spent roughly ~20 hours at the actual venue, and my time there was comprised of watching the progamers and playing SC2. I went to BlizzCon last year and wrote a giant essay on what I thought about the game. At the time I felt like I played enough to give a good critique on the game without the need to really theorycraft as I had hands-on experience right then and there. I think this applies again as well, as I probably played somewhere in the area of 30 games of SC2 at BlizzCon. So hopefully you guys will enjoy this, as I will be writing extensively about the game.

BUT first and foremost here are some pictures!

+ Show Spoiler [PICS] +

Sorry about the quality, there was some weird haze/fog in the area and until the middle of the 2nd day I couldn't figure out that flash would work better than no flash. I also felt that I didn't need to take so many damn pictures of progamers/the venue because everyone else with better skills/cameras than me prob already did so.

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Guy in white on right looking at camera is ZILEAS (the man the myth the legend), guy to his right is his buddy who works for Blizzard on WoW.

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And onto SC2...

+ Show Spoiler +
Some balance:
I played roughly 25 games as Protoss, 4 as Terran, 1 as Zerg. Zerg is absolutely ridiculously confusing and unaesthetically pleasing - I didn't even know I had an overlord at the start because it blended into the disgusting looking creep. It has all sorts of little units which all end up sucking. Lings at start seem a lot better now though, banelings are reportedly strong, and everything else gets raped by the Terran Hellions.

Terran is by far the funnest race to play atm. It's kind of like Human in war3 if any of you guys play - While it's not necessarily the strongest, it has a ton of pretty and interesting things that make it really fun to dick around with.

Protoss is probably the strongest race in this build, with Terran at second and Zerg at a far third. The effectiveness of Zealots early game has been diminished, and getting leg/charge tech (doubled into 1 upgrade) takes quite a while to research. Stalkers are the upgraded dragoon but control a lot better, but also arent as beefy I think. The real sexiness is found in Immortals which are expensive but an amazing tank and damage dealer (imagine giving Toss unsieged tanks to roll around with), Dark Templars which do 45 fucking damage, CARRIERS (which are atm incredibly effective vs every race, most especially Terran).

Some Strategy:
I thought there was going to be an official tournament on the 2nd day, turns out that was a farce and I had been practicing build orders nonstop the previous day for nothing. Here's my results:
- As a Zerg, your best bet is to make a lot of units and get raped by Hellions or Archons or whatever the fuck your opponent has.

- As a Terran, the current best strategy is Marine/Marauder into Medivac. This was exposed to me by Gaetele who stole it from some other TL.net member and I refined it and told my buddy Ghostclaws to try it out and he's been having amazing success with it despite not even being that good ;p. This works for TvZ and TvP - you can now do this safely against Protoss ground because Dragoons alone CANNOT take on an MM army because the terran focus fire is way too strong at this point (and you cant even micro out of it because Marauders slow whatever it's attacking). I've refined this build into getting 3 Medivacs and dropping the fucking shit out of everyones main because in SC1, everyone protects their natural and not their main which leads me to my first revelation - You CAN'T approach SC2 with an SC1 perspective. It's a different game in that you need to be creative enough to figure out due to the new unit/map selection, how the metagame will turn out. In SC1, ramp/1 choke maps are prevalent so no one defends their mains. In SC2 however, there's a lot more options as far as dropping and various forms of sneak attacking.

- As a Protoss, I'm currently 2 gate gooning into various builds vs Protoss and having tremendous success, due in part to the revamped control of the Dragoon unit (Stalker) which makes the game feel a lot like WarCraft 3, and I was always a ton better at war3 than I ever was at sc1, so that gave me a huge advantage. Against Terran I'm going Zealot into Immortal if they're dong Marine/Marauder, but that doesn't seem to be that effective, otherwise I'm going Immortals against terran which rapes the fuck out of any other build (which is likely to be mech).

Some Thoughts
So the game isn't balanced, the game has huge inherent differences from SC1, and the engine is completely different. My second revelation would be that the entire pathing and attacking/animation system has been reworked. Advanced Micromanagement has thus been stunted. What this means is, you can't pull a NaDa and micro 2 vultures into raping a ton of lings chasing you. You can't pull a July with mutas and wreak havoc on an SCV line. What you CAN do is watch your units creep up to your target, animate itself a bit, and THEN fire an attack volley. So think "DRAGOON" but EVEN WORSE. This is one of the biggest problems I have with the game, because with MBS (which to my knowledge, has been reworked as well btw, but nothing too significant) making macro easier, and micro being restricted by the game engine, one has to wonder if this was a conscious decision by Blizzard to limit the emphasis on speed, and increase emphasis on strategy/thinking.

There's some stupid feature where everyone runs out of gas harvesting capabilities on a refinery/etc. after a certain amount of gas has been taken out of that building. It then "repairs" itself which takes a long ass while while your 3 probes are sitting there waiting to get in. Yes it's just that peculiar. So throughout the game you're constantly having to juggle your gas econ and timings due to that because sometimes you're going to have to pull probes off gas, and then back again, etc. Definitely a weird game.

I mentioned it last year, but it deserves another mention. The graphics are BEAUTIFUL, but imo detract from the overall gameplay and feasibility of SC2 as a spectator sport (ironically). Look, this is coming from a warcraft 3 player - when I say that there's just way too much shit flying everywhere and going every which way in 15 hundred different color schemes, something is definitely up. There will be times where I'd say, blow something up with a tank, and for whatever reason that unit's remains will fly all over the terrain. I mean it's a cute touch, but come the fuck on, I'm not trying to visually impress myself when I'm playing competitively. The game just isn't visually simple, it's tough to really discern what the fuck is going on or why until you've had a lot of experience, which should be avoided if this game is ever going to become a spectator sport.

I also mentioned this last year, and Blizzard either said fuck you panorama i hate you, or just didn't read my awesome blog, but the sounds STILL aren't poignant enough. I NEED to be able to recognize instantly when a unit dies as opposed to when they're just grunting or whatever the hell they're doing. I need to know when units die so I can register the information subconsciously in my head and adjust accordingly. Half the battle I'm here trying to figure out just exactly what I lost and what I should do (medium battles+ obviously). I don't know if it's sincerely a problem or if it' just a product of habit, but I am very unsatisfied with the visual/audio aspects of this game past the "Wow that looks/sounds sweet!", which is the "But wait what the fuck.....?"

Some Conclusions
Overall, this is going to be an exciting, fast-paced game. There are so many elements that are unique to SC2 at this current point in time that SC1 and War3 lack, which I think is pretty cool. It's a bit weird if a top SC player can pick up SC2 and say, become the best within a week of playing. I definitely think there should be a balance of new-ism and old shit in this game, and I think Blizzard has done a pretty good job. Builds, timings, styles of play will become so significantly different I can't wait to see how it turns out (most specifically in the dropping/countering department).


Update 10/12:

SaviOr vs YellOw SC2 short clip

Conclusions:
Another great year. I wish certain people were able to come, but beggars can't be choosers. Special thanks to my man DKNIGHT for hooking me up with a ticket in the first place!

More shoutouts to people that I chilled/at least conversed with that I still remember: my main dudes at UCI GhostClawS and blabber, CharlieMurphy, NEOILLU, "Etter" Etter, omgbnetsux aka joe, cF trident, HajiRaMa, XCetron, intrigue/tuna (twins imo), LastRomantic, SemiOldGuy (SAWG), gaetele, retsukage, MAHHHHHHHHnini, LosingID8 who organized the cheers and did a damn good job, Sigrun, dude who I beat PvP with DTs, etc. everyone really was awesome and a great bunch of dudes. There really is no better feeling than walking around feeling superior to everyone because you play StarCraft and are from TL.net while everyone else is a huge wow nerd around you ("these guys actually make me feel happy to be a starcraft nerd" -omgbnetsux commenting on WoW cosplayers), also cutting a huge line and just walking straight into the convention while security guards are yelling at you and you pretend like you don't hear them, etc, etc. Great times, great job with the representation, TL.

Kevin

*****
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
October 12 2008 08:23 GMT
#2
Thanks for sharing, btw, Bunny is quite small no?
Resistance ain't futile
Aesop
Profile Joined October 2007
Hungary11290 Posts
October 12 2008 08:28 GMT
#3
Thanks for your analysis! The changed engine you mentioned sounds really annoying - isn't it even possible to do animation cancelling as in war3?
ModeratorNon veritas sed auctoritas facit legem. | Liquipedia: Don't ask me, I'm retired.
PanoRaMa
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States5069 Posts
October 12 2008 08:34 GMT
#4
On October 12 2008 17:28 Aesop wrote:
Thanks for your analysis! The changed engine you mentioned sounds really annoying - isn't it even possible to do animation cancelling as in war3?


If there is, then it's not the traditional way we know of going about things. You definitely need to sometimes sit there and and auto attack (which ends up being the most effective attack form simply because you're unable to micro it any other way). Another way of describing it is, imagine a vulture or a mutalisk's turning speeds (i.e. it's the same as if they were moving straight). Imagine how you can "dance" any SC unit because it can turn fast, etc. etc. you can't really do this anymore in SC2 (to an extent you could even in war3).

Someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong and i'm just a giant newb
p4NDemik
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States13896 Posts
October 12 2008 09:18 GMT
#5
Thank you for your insight. From watching the Exibition match I sort of felt the same way you did about how it was difficult to discern what was going on in mid-to-large sized battles, had that same thing where my brain was like "looks cool, but I have no idea who is gaining an advantage." I couldn't tell what was dying, how many units were dying ... whatever. Which is very concerning from a spectators standpoint.
Moderator
Ganfei
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Taiwan1439 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-12 09:39:43
October 12 2008 09:39 GMT
#6
That was a really good read about SC2. Blizz really needs to understand the community they are going to be marketing this game to. Sure there will be an initial surge of noobs buying the game, but the people who are gonna stick with it are us - the real players of SC1 and the big fans who want to see Korean progaming and follow the game for years and play for years. It's nice to see someone actually just come out and say what I've thought, that being that SC2 just is too fuckin complicated looking on screen with too much shit going on.

V. good read. Zerg sounds shitty. And fuck not being able to pull a Nada...it's what makes SC great.
You are crushing me like a cheese sandwich
prOxi.swAMi
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Australia3091 Posts
October 12 2008 09:40 GMT
#7
Nice blog Pano
Oh no
404.Nintu
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Canada1723 Posts
October 12 2008 09:53 GMT
#8
The sc2 developers, having seen the units and scenes so many times, knew exactly what was going on and that's what's important. It might be confusing initially, but both of the commentators knew immediately how many lings died or drones died, etc.. At times when I was looking quite closely, they just knew more about what was happening.

Our eyes will adjust to be able recognize units and deaths very easily.
"So, then did the American yum-yum clown monkey also represent the FCC?"
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36374 Posts
October 12 2008 10:16 GMT
#9
did savior make any comments about your cj shirt
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
zatic
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Zurich15325 Posts
October 12 2008 10:18 GMT
#10
Hmm funny I disagree on almost anything you wrote about SC2 except the sound part. The early Marine Marauder push is also known as the "Zatic build" imo :-)
ModeratorI know Teamliquid is known as a massive building
Ki_Do
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Korea (South)981 Posts
October 12 2008 11:03 GMT
#11
mmm
i could watch the game pretty well
but i felt micro and macro sucked hard...
i doubt what Yellow did with stalkers was something really pro, i bet a lot of ppl can do that it doesnt require amazing apm.
Macro was (no coments) everyime we saw tons of units everywhere... in a low eco game....
even sonkie with that bad macro could be competitive...
I dont think there will be a difference between a macro player and a micro player in sc2, unless they remove some automatizations
I've got a point, and i'm ready to kill or die for it.
DhakhaR
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United Kingdom721 Posts
October 12 2008 11:04 GMT
#12
[image loading]


NOOOOOOOOO, dont shoot Savior!!!
clazziquai
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
6685 Posts
October 12 2008 11:06 GMT
#13
Awesome read and thanks for sharing about SC2. Honestly, I have like very very little knowledge because I have NO interest in it whatsoever. I only knew about like the Immortals (goons that can take in tank damage?) and zealots that had the charge ability...so yea >_>
#1 Sea.Really Fan / #1 Nesh Fan / Terran Forever~
NeverGG *
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom5399 Posts
October 12 2008 12:02 GMT
#14
It looks like a really cool set up there at the con. Jangbi looks kind of badass in his photo - which is pretty unusual for him ^_^;
우리 행운의 모양은 여러개지만 행복의 모양은 하나
Aerox
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Malaysia1213 Posts
October 12 2008 12:59 GMT
#15
IMO from the screenshots, it really does look kinda hard to recognize the units from an outsider perspective due to the particles and explosions. And especially shadows which I noticed. But I need to really see the game in action in person myself for a better judgement.
"Eyes in the sky."
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
October 12 2008 16:12 GMT
#16
The game can be really good imo, but they need to work a lot on the graphics.
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
rA.Hippie
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Denmark714 Posts
October 12 2008 16:57 GMT
#17
Choblar ? 8D
Great read btw.
I love teh shisha.
Gaetele
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Esper760 Posts
October 12 2008 17:03 GMT
#18
marine marauder imba imba imba
aka Ghostclaws
LosingID8
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
CA10827 Posts
October 12 2008 17:04 GMT
#19
i hate the zatic build
ModeratorResident K-POP Elitist
Physician *
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States4146 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-10-12 17:11:43
October 12 2008 17:11 GMT
#20
There really is no better feeling than walking around feeling superior to everyone because you play StarCraft and are from TL.net while everyone else is a huge wow nerd around you ("these guys actually make me feel happy to be a starcraft nerd" -omgbnetsux commenting on WoW cosplayers), also cutting a huge line and just walking straight into the convention while security guards are yelling at you and you pretend like you don't hear them, etc, etc.

best part lol
"I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...."
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