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I'm taking the GRE this Saturday and I know many people on TL are either in grad school or post grad school, so I figure I'd ask people for their experience with the test (and maybe grad school in general).
I'm applying for grad school (in physics) this coming fall and I'm trying to aim for the top (Berkeley, Stanford, MIT, maybe stay in LA) or at least the highest I can get. I've been getting mixed opinions on what my GRE scores need to be. On the practice test I downloaded from the ETS website, I hit 580 verbal and 770 math (trying to get at least 1400 somehow, I'll probably need 800 on math and then try to muster a 600+ on verbal). I really haven't studied much for the essay portion, I should probably start doing that now right? =P
Also, is it just me or do verbal scores fluctuate a shitload? I think I hit 600 highest and something like 380 lowest. Sometimes there's just a chain of words that I have no clue on.
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I'm not sure what "good" GRE scores are... but if it's anything like SAT score correlation to getting into top rated schools (undergrad) .. you are going to need A LOT higher than a 1400 to get in Stanford and MIT for a grad program.
For example, you would have needed like 1550+ SAT, and an excellent GPA, etc in High School in order to get into those schools for undergrand, and I can't imagine it would be very different for grad programs (like 3.8+ GPA / 1500+ GRE).
So uh, if you are aiming for the Ivy schools, better mass cram this week O_O...
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Regarding the practice test you took, keep in mind those probably used a different scoring format (though I obviously didn't see what format they used, this is generally true). In the actual test the first five questions of a section are the most important. Like, after 5 it could already put you at a 500, and the next 25 determine if you're a 550, 570, or whatever. Correct me if I'm wrong someone. :O
About your choice of grad schools... I'm not into physics, but if it's like Biology, it is more like you are applying to work under a certain researcher (your adviser) rather than a particular school. The type of adviser you get, and the type of work he/she does is often pretty independent between schools. For me, that is the chief consideration, well over the reputation of a school. Likewise, the value of your graduate degree will be more based on the type of publication you put out with your research, which again is more related to your adviser than school. And after that, same for your post-doc.
I'm also studying for it (general + bio subject test), but will be taking it later in the fall.
The toughest part seems to be having good skills for test questions. I can't speak for the actual exam, but many of the questions in the practice books you can buy are ambiguous and debatable. Even when you know the subject matter of a question backwards and forwards, answering poorly defined questions is a challenge.
Example from one of my bio practice tests: One about the citric acid cycle. I think the question asked which component of the cycle is regenerated... But... it's a cycle... each part is regenerated at some point! So I decided to go with the 1st component of the cycle... the answer was the last component :/ lolz.
On the general GRE I find the math incredibly easy... just have to guard against silly mistakes. On the other hand, the vocab looks like a pain in the ass. Quite a lot of the words I've simply never seen used, and probably never will again. I expect verbal scores are, quite unfortunately, pretty variable, as you said. T_T
GL HF :o
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On August 19 2008 09:05 Xeris wrote:
I'm not sure what "good" GRE scores are... but if it's anything like SAT score correlation to getting into top rated schools (undergrad) .. you are going to need A LOT higher than a 1400 to get in Stanford and MIT for a grad program.
I kind of doubt that... I've never heard of a cutoff at 1400 (I've heard of 1300 tho). The GRE is a basic test. I think if he has a good, but not outstanding score, and has other good qualifications, he can get in.
What I've heard is: Letters of recommendation >> Relevant research experience (for science) >> GPA > GRE. I feel like I'm missing one or two things.. :O
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The math really is incredibly easy. The verbal is mainly vocabulary. Either pay for one of the online classes from the main GRE programs or scout around for free websites. Just learn vocab and you will do fine.
I studied for about 3 days and had no problems at all. One day to review all the math you did when you were in HS, then a few days to take several practice verbal tests and learn vocab. I guess analogies can use some practice, but even then you need to know all of the words that are being used so vocab is really the main thing being tested in the entire verbal section.
Shouldnt you just be concerned with the GRE Subject exam? I took mine in literature and that test was harddddddddddd.
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no problems at all = score of what?!
Your advice is impractical (as in, you must be good at the test material, so what worked for you won't work for everyone) :p Simply because of the distribution of scores. If it were so simple I wouldn't hear noobs crying about studying for a while, getting a 1100, studying more and retaking, and getting a 1050 :p
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He already got a BA and did fine on the math section. One day of studying covers whatever silly little detail he forgot.
Yea yea advice cannot be perfect. Really anyone with ANY decent IQ or education should get 750+ on the math regardless of what area your BA/BS is in. It is that easy.
The only tricky part is the verbal. I just wanted to emphasize that vocab is the main thing to study. Also, the GRE has a word bank of all of like 500 words (not counting the words you should know anyway if you are even remotely literate). When you pay some money at any real testing site, like kaplan, you get access to the words that they think will be on there. I used kaplan and saw about 13 words (out of the 32ish questions on the test) that I may not have gotten without studying. That is a ridiculously huge edge from 2 days of studying and $99.
Sure I memorized several hundred words and only saw 13, but when the test consists of so few questions even a few words that you would not have otherwise gotten are a big return. Especially in the first 5 questions since that is still how the test is basically scored. The GREs have to be one of the dumbest standardized tests I have ever taken. I found them to be far far worse (accuracy wise) than the SATs.
Oh and I got a 780 math and a 770 verbal. I checked the stats on the ETS website after the results were in and about 80% of science majors score an 800 on math. Why have a test that is that easy? I was a Renaissance Drama grad student BTW.
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On August 19 2008 09:45 maleorderbride wrote:
He already got a BA and did fine on the math section. One day of studying covers whatever silly little detail he forgot.
Yea yea advice cannot be perfect. Really anyone with ANY decent IQ or education should get 750+ on the math regardless of what area your BA/BS is in. It is that easy.
Haha :d Looking at the math practice exams, I am inclined to agree... but that implies that most BA/BS holders do not have a decent IQ or education T_T And to think, those are the smarter portion of the country.
Oh and I got a 780 math and a 770 verbal. I checked the stats on the ETS website after the results were in and about 80% of science majors score an 800 on math. Why have a test that is that easy? I was a Renaissance Drama grad student BTW.
I wonder as well <_< In addition, why make us memorize useless words? >_>
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I took the test back when it was all still paper-and-pencil (1997...sigh). So I am not sure if they still use the same scales. I can't remember the raw scores... I know I got 99th percentile on math (you pretty much should do high-90s automatically if you are applying for physics). Think it was 95% on analytical (again, I think physicists go high here) and verbal was high-80's. Actually now I think my verbal raw score was 700... I would worry more about the physics subject than all of these... that has a lot more range for separating potential candidates. Remember, in physics you'll be high on the verbal, comparitively, simply because there are a lot of non-native speakers in the talent pool. But you need to do well on the subject test. When I took it, getting 50-60% of the questions on that would put you in the 90-percent range (I think I had like 53 or 55 pts out of 100, and 90th percentile), so there's a lot of room to kick its ass. The problem with the subject tests is that your normal "problem set mentality" can actually lead you astray. Think more hit-and-run when you're preparing for it.
The best schools I applied to were Berkeley (got in) and Stanford (wait list --> then removed myself when I enrolled at Brown). I'd think you'll need at least 80's to have a shot at MIT/Berkeley/Stanford. Plus (and it's probably too late), having research experience is huge, esp. if you've published. Letters of recommendation, as someone mentioned, might be the most important thing, esp. if its from a person you've done research with and/or have had a close working relationship with.
As far as the application goes, I recommend not applying specifically to one advisor. Yes, you should consider individual professors at the schools you are considering, and definitely contact them if you are very interested to improve your chances. But at the same time, there is NEVER, EVER a guarantee that you'll be able to work with the person you want. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Depending on what you want to do in terms of research, there are schools that are well-rounded in those disciplines. Certainly the ones you suggested are strong all-around and likely won't let you down.
Also, make sure you trust your gut in choosing schools. You'll be there for 5-6 years, don't choose an environment you don't want to live in.
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The GRE general test doesn't mean as much as the SAT, especially the verbal part. Research experience/publications >>>> anything else for graduate school, but not everybody has publications as an undergrad so it's not the end of the world if you don't.
As a physics student, you should be able to do very well on the math portion without difficulty. An 800 on GRE math is only about 94th percentile. By comparison, the high 600's on verbal would be a similar percentile. Even at a good school, you'll find plenty of International students who only have somewhere in the 500's on their verbal. You might want to pay a little bit more attention to the Physics subject test of the GRE (assuming your schools require it). It's probable that schools would pay more attention to that.
PS. Remember to pick recommenders who can comment on your research ability if possible. Also, don't forget your fellowship proposals.
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man I have to apply to grad school / take the gre and shit too... should be interesting. Going into neuroscience but really wishing there were a neuroscience subject test since all the schools I'm looking at recommend a subject test but the closest one to it is just regular biology =/ and that means relearning and studying a bunch of shit I don't know.
regular gre I'm most worried forgetting basic math stuff. I haven't done sat-style math in a LONG time. vocab and other verbal stuff doesn't worry me at all.
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On August 19 2008 10:39 talismania wrote:
man I have to apply to grad school / take the gre and shit too... should be interesting. Going into neuroscience but really wishing there were a neuroscience subject test since all the schools I'm looking at recommend a subject test but the closest one to it is just regular biology =/ and that means relearning and studying a bunch of shit I don't know.
hurray for relearning flowering plant anatomy ;p
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When I talked to my advisor who was the chair of graduate admissions, he basically said that they looked at GRE verbal to make sure that you're not an idiot (550+) and the same with math (750+) and pretty much ignored it after that. Letters of recommendation are way more important.
don't go to a school because of 1 guy: you may not get him, you may decide his research isn't actually all that cool, and then you're fucked.
fwiw i finished the GRE overall over an hour early. 800 math, 680 verbal, 6? 12? (or whatever the highest was) on the essay part
i didn't have to take a subject test because of my field (engineering)
Enjoy recruitment weekends to the fullest. they'll never treat you that nicely again haha
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On August 19 2008 10:52 KOFgokuon wrote:
When I talked to my advisor who was the chair of graduate admissions, he basically said that they looked at GRE verbal to make sure that you're not an idiot (550+) and the same with math (750+) and pretty much ignored it after that. Letters of recommendation are way more important.
don't go to a school because of 1 guy: you may not get him, you may decide his research isn't actually all that cool, and then you're fucked.
Sometimes you can pre-arrange to get that person. Anyway, it seems better to me than going to a school because of reputation and their general research aims. Sounds like a way to end up with some random guy who may not be a great researcher and that in turn screws you over. E.G., within my own school I'm really high on like 6 of the bio faculty, but the rest are highly suspect ;p I heard one of them is seriously just waiting for some mutation of a certain kind to happen in his corn... He keeps his corn healthy I guess and sits and waits. (Well, I doubt it is that bad, but that is what I heard :p). Anyway, my point is there is probably a pretty large variability in the type of experiences you have for your graduate studies within a school (greater than the variability between universities), so imo it is better to prioritize a specific person, if possible.
A few of you said that there is no guarantee that you will get a specific person, but in some cases you can. Like if you were to do grad school at the same place as undergrad, and you already did research with that person as a undergrad, that can obviously simplify getting a commitment. :O Though perhaps that is just about the only case where you can get a guarantee, idk...
(btw I'm just giving my unfiltered thoughts, I'm not a licensed college advisor!  So I hope I'm not pissing anyone off by giving suspect advice)
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You can do that, but you better be damn sure that you're going to get that person. It's always better to have acouple of people that you're interested in and are sure that you can work with. These are all things that you'll find out on the actual recruiting trips when you talk to faculty and stuff. Personal interaction with your advisor is key to having a good time in grad school. If you hate your advisor and don't get along, then you're going to have a terrible time in grad school almost guaranteed.
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EPT
