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Hell ya I'm excited. I just got a refurbished Creative "Zen" player for half off the MSRP -- about $100. I used to have an iPOD mini and a FM transmitter, but some punk kid in my neighourhood stole it from my car. Anyway, I've been mp3 less for a few weeks and with a 40 minute commute to work everyday, I couldn't take it anymore =).
Anyway, iPODs suck. No seriously, if some other company came out with a mp3 player with the feature set the iPOD has it wouldn't get very far. (doesn't include the new "Touch", of course, that shit is sexyyy) What the iPod has going for it is very reliable software, it's fashionable, and a sleek interface. In my mind though, these reasons don't redeem the ipod.
Software: I prefer winamp over itunes anyday. It's more extensible, has more features, and the new version is completely compatible with not just the iPod, but any kind of portable music player. I don't think it's out for Mac, but who cares about Mac users?
Fashionability: The ipod looks very nice, ya, but so do a lot of other players. But really, looks and popularity isn't something you should be judging a $200 purchase on :\.
Interface: The click wheel is overrated. It's super sensitive and not very accurate. When I'm trying to choose between four or five songs, I'd much rather be able to press a button to go up and down. What the wheel is great for is being able to scroll down long lists very rapidly, but that's something the folks at creative have overcome by letting you scroll by first letter of the alphabet using a directional pad. That gives you speed and accuracy.
What really hurts the iPod though is its lack of features. It's 2008, and the nano/classic models still doesn't have radio or voice recording, which is standard with all its competitors. It also only accepts proprietary formats for video... increasing the chances you'll have to spend half an hour trying to convert the video to the correct format.
I'm not saying the iPod isn't a great product. I'm saying there are better options out there, that are about three quarters the price. For those of you looking for a fully featured flash based 4-32 GB model, I recommend the Creative Zen. It's got everything the iPod has (like literally. there isn't a single feature the ipod has that the zen doesn't, except maybe solitaire), and a user interface that's just as easy to use, if not as sexy looking. PLUS, it's got radio, voice recording, and a (poorly implemented) SD card extension. All that, and it costs $20 less at the 8 gig level.
ya, that was long, but i spent 4 hours today comparing different players, and damned if I wasn't going to share with someone.
Poll: What kidn of MP3 player do you have?
(Vote): iPod, because I'm a drone
(Vote): Creative Zen
(Vote): Other (tell us about it)
 
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iRiver iHP-120 from 4 or so years back, it gets pretty good use. Nothing amazing about it I suppose, though back then having support for ogg was big for me as the online p2p community were experimenting with different kinds of audio formats. Radio is nice too, though I don't tend to catch much of anything being in NY and riding subway for most of my commute.
Oh, and as for the iPod, not sure why anyone would put up with it, especially the Touch with the new iPhone.
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51385 Posts
who seriously uses their radio or recording function EVER?
maybe once or twice, but not more than that.
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Recording was nice until I realize the classes I want to have audio recordings for either have them available directly from the course instructor or is too big for it to be practical 
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On July 13 2008 15:23 GTR-2-Go wrote:
who seriously uses their radio or recording function EVER?
maybe once or twice, but not more than that.
most people don't, but i personally use it a lot for speech and debate. voice recording was the main reason I didn't go with the iPod. Even if you don't use those features, there's still plenty of reasons not to go with the ipod.
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I use voice recording all the time, (but its on my cellphone). Its good for quick notes or phrases (i'm learning chinese)
alternatively as a musician when a melody or lyric pops into my head i'd like to record it asap so i don't forget it
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Do you have thousands of useful 3rd party applications available like dictionaries, programming languages? MSN? IRC? Youtube/Video downloading? FTP Server? Do you have lots of cool games on it? CAN YOU EVEN PLAY MONKEY ISLAND 3 ON YOUR ZEN? EH? CAN YOU?
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i specifically said "not including the ipod touch"
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Samsung p2 8gb. fucking awesome player, highly recomend it.
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I use a Cowon Q5W. As a matter of fact, my PC just crapped out on me and while waiting I am surfing TL with it. Its pretty cool. I even took a pic of it (plugged into my HDTV). Best thing about it though is that it plays lossless music. Supports so many video files too. Love it.
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Creative Zen V Plus 8GB
I would kill the motherfucker who even thought about stealing it, I love it as much as I love sAviOr.
Hell, at times it gives musical relief more soothing than any symphony the Maestro of Zerg could provide.
Creative fighting~
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i use a zune... it's awesome 
i especially love the zune pass, you can download as much music as you want from their site for $15 a month... it's awesome.
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I have a Samsung Sansa which covers my needs for the moment. Sort of a iPod Shuffle competitor, but half the price.. And includes a screen/radio/recorder/more memory. Very happy with it.
I basically use it as a 'new music sampler' by dumping new music on it sunday and listening to it all week, by saturday I have decided which stays and which goes. It works alright.
But sometimes I do wish I had a high-capacity MP3 player.. I have this awkward situation where if I get a 'real' mp3 player (a non-tiny one) I want it to be big enough so that I don't have to do any swapping though. I want my entire collection to be on the player, but currently that at 324GB of mp3s so.. there is nothing that even comes close to big enough right now :\
I think at this point I am only going to be interested in a strong mp3 player/phone hybrid which must have at least SD card for expandable storage and it must be able to navigate the internet (read: TL.net) without being a painful ordeal. Most importantly though it must support Flash player with full youtube support so that I can watch Small Vod Thread postings on the go. I also really really want to be able to write custom apps for it without jumping through hoops and to use any custom apps I can find to download, not just what the carrier will sell me.
I messed with a friend's iPhone, and it is not there yet. No expandable storage, the inability to replace the battery yourself, and no flash player support at all. :\ A shame too since the web browser on it was absolutely fantastic. It does have that standalone youtube app, but the interface for that is abysmal... Following proleague through it is not possible. And then there is the whole lockdown on the API just recently being opened, with devs having to go through apple and apple holding the right to lockdown programs at any time. No thanks.
Right now I am sitting tight waiting for the first generation Android phones. For anyone not familiar with them, Android is a phone operating system Google is developing that looks very promising. It can be used on multiple hardware profiles, so there will be high end and low end phones. Most importantly you can use any android software on it interchangably and they hook together like legos (IE: make an application that needs an address entered and it can load up the google maps app to pick one out, etc). But... yea not materializing this year I don't think. -_-
May end up just getting a Zune or something with a nice vid screen and use youtube downloaders to save progames as *.mp4s to it.
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Creative Zen Touch 20GB
pretty outdated though
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iriver n12- Its a flash player 2gb- really cool looking
If I feel like carrying 10gb of music around, I'll just put in on my video player.
I had a 40gb ipod and ya I know ipod's suck. My family still likes them for some reason.
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New zens are a good buy. im cheep so i just use my phone which i got for free
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my zen 8gig had this white screen problem so its out on a journey to get repaired /get a new one at the moment
SUX !
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i've had two zens (one micro 4gb, the genration before color, and one zen vision:m 30gb) and two ipods(3rd gen, gen with 4 buttons up top 15gb, and classic 6th gen 80gb, current), and ipods have been overall more reliable for me. also, current generations of ipods have better battery life. zens do have better video quality, 4x the amount of color if i recall, and more compatibility, but tahts just more converting for me. it still all gets to high quality usable shit. you don thave to use itunes, i do because it works? i actually use a napster subscription, rip off the drm, and change the wma to lame mp3 for minimal losses and then put it on my ipod
dont you fucking call me a drone
fuck you, buddy
edit: i realize that the only flash mp3 player i've had is the micro, but it broke really fucking fast and i need more space for my massive amounts of music
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United States22883 Posts
On July 13 2008 15:38 Shauni wrote:
Do you have thousands of useful 3rd party applications available like dictionaries, programming languages? MSN? IRC? Youtube/Video downloading? FTP Server? Do you have lots of cool games on it? CAN YOU EVEN PLAY MONKEY ISLAND 3 ON YOUR ZEN? EH? CAN YOU?
Yeah, but you could've gotten an iPhone to do the exact same thing, or one of the better smart phones out there.
I've got an older iRiver which is amazing, and a Zune 80 which is also amazing. The iRiver is incredibly reliable and sturdy and it's easy to use, since it's essentially a plug and play harddrive.
Zune software makes me cringe, but the player itself is pretty great. Capacity + nice movie screen, and I actually do use the radio on it. It's especially great in other countries, since it gives you the stations/song titles.
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Belgium9945 Posts
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I have a Sandisk Sansa. Although it has less memory than most iPods, it uses solid state memory which uses less battery power than HDs and weighs less. I would never use iTunes anyway with its DRM, so I've decided to stay away from the iPod.
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ZVM 30gb
<3
and i use the radio all the time. recording sometimes just for fun.
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On July 13 2008 23:42 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2008 15:38 Shauni wrote:
Do you have thousands of useful 3rd party applications available like dictionaries, programming languages? MSN? IRC? Youtube/Video downloading? FTP Server? Do you have lots of cool games on it? CAN YOU EVEN PLAY MONKEY ISLAND 3 ON YOUR ZEN? EH? CAN YOU? Yeah, but you could've gotten an iPhone to do the exact same thing, or one of the better smart phones out there.
No, you can't, because Apple is a slow ass discriminating company which can't release products worldwide.
But I don't really get your point, cause if you want mobile features, you buy an iPhone, but if you don't like cancer you buy an iTouch.
I dislike Apple because they are hypocrites (Adding 'public' limited 3rd party support now?) and also because they made the world's most shitty software ever - iTunes.
BUT, their mp3 players have always held high class in competition with other players, many people whine at iPod users cause they're 'bandwagoners' yet the iRiver and Zen players have at least as many flaws as the iPods...
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Zens aren't perfect. But it does everything an iPod Nano can and it costs about half, so I don't know what you're complaining about. Like, you can complain about the SD card implementation sucking, and it does (it's practically useless, tbh), but the iPod doesn't even have an SD card slot.
Look for yourself:
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/compare/creative-zen-vs-ipod-nano-3g
main things to note:
* Lot cheaper
* Higher color definition
* Supports more video formats
* Recording and radio
* Equalizer and volume limiter
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I would never use iTunes anyway with its DRM
What are you talking about? iTunes sucks because it's a resource hog, but I've never had problems putting songs on it... You don't even need iTunes for an iPod anyway, there's plenty of alternative freeware programs out there for iPod.
I don't get why people call iPod users sheep either... It's just one of the best mp3 players out there, of course it's going to be popular. It has great price/GB, it's easy to find any song you want even if you have 1000s, there's a shit tonne of 3rd party programs made for it because it's so popular (Rockbox for one), and its battery life is second to none. If you think I use one because I think it's a status symbol you're wrong. I actually keep it in this ugly grey protector thing, and use my own headphones because I don't want it getting stolen.
Of course, if you're cheap and you get a nano or something, you're probably not getting the best bang for your buck... but at least you're assured a quality product (ie: tried and true). The only thing missing from iPods is radio, and there's attachments you can get for that if you really wanted it.
Then again.. Zens didn't exist when I bought my iPod, so I never had the dilemma of deciding between quality products... it was like "20 GB iPod or... 256 mb mp3 player for about the same price... yeah, no." When I got my new 80 GB, I don't remember if there was competition, or if I just didn't care because I'd been so happy with my old iPod... Actually, I believe it was the only portable video player/mp3 player on the market at the time.
* Lot cheaper
Lol, what do you mean, "a lot cheaper?" It's the same price for the 8GB, and only 20 dollars cheaper for the 4 GB. Plus the other one is completely tactile... Have fun looking through your songs with that.
* Supports more video formats
That's not a problem if you know how to convert files... You're gonna have to convert everything anyway, because I'm guess you don't normally keep your videos in 320/240 format.
Also... iPod had equalizer and volume limiter too..
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On July 14 2008 04:51 ahrara_ wrote:Zens aren't perfect. But it does everything an iPod Nano can and it costs about half, so I don't know what you're complaining about. Like, you can complain about the SD card implementation sucking, and it does (it's practically useless, tbh), but the iPod doesn't even have an SD card slot. Look for yourself: http://www.anythingbutipod.com/compare/creative-zen-vs-ipod-nano-3gmain things to note: * Lot cheaper * Higher color definition * Supports more video formats * Recording and radio * Equalizer and volume limiter
read my post, admit that not all ipod users are sheep/drones, and i wont fuck you with a rake
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Seriously, calling iPod users sheep is like calling people who use Google sheep. It's just better, you Yahoo using fool.
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I started out with a mini, and I was really happy with it. I decided to shop around though, and realized that there were much better options than the nano. I was kidding about the drone thing, whatever. But IMO there are better options than the iPod, but most people don't even shop around anymore.
On July 14 2008 06:24 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
The only thing missing from iPods is radio, and there's attachments you can get for that if you really wanted it.
Attachments that cost 30-50 bucks.
Lol, what do you mean, "a lot cheaper?" It's the same price for the 8GB, and only 20 dollars cheaper for the 4 GB. Plus the other one is completely tactile... Have fun looking through your songs with that.
1. Those are the launch prices. The difference between brand new versions of both products is now $60, and about $30 if you go with used.
2. You can browse your song list by first letter of the alphabet, letting you scroll by your song list much faster than most tactile controls. It's still not quite as fast as the wheel, but it makes up for it by being much more accurate, so you never have to "scroll back" when you went just a little too far.
Moreover, the Zen has 4 functional buttons. whereas the iPod only really has 1, because 3/4 buttons are occupied by the fast forward/back and pause buttons. What this means is you only have to press once to jump to the main menu/album list/artist list, etc. It also means there's a button for "options", giving you access to features the iPod just doesn't have room because of its interface.
That's not a problem if you know how to convert files... You're gonna have to convert everything anyway, because I'm guess you don't normally keep your videos in 320/240 format.
Also... iPod had equalizer and volume limiter too..
Ok, that's fair enough. As for the 3rd party firmware options, rockbox still doesn't support the newest nanos.
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On July 14 2008 06:24 PsycHOTemplar wrote:What are you talking about? iTunes sucks because it's a resource hog, but I've never had problems putting songs on it... You don't even need iTunes for an iPod anyway, there's plenty of alternative freeware programs out there for iPod.
Yeah, you only get DRMed if you decide to buy music from iTunes. Don't do it folks, don't support Apple's DRM. But you're right, I buy my music from Amazon.com so it wouldn't have affected me anyway.
I'd like to point out that most people like Apple products because of their efficient, easy-to-use software and reliable hardware. If Apple stuck with this formula for the software for the iPod, I may have gotten one. But the fact is, iTunes isn't efficient and although it is probably easy to use, I'm not the type that cares so much about that since I fairly tech savvy. As far as reliable hardware, it seems like the battery for the iPods are bad, and I care a lot about battery life.
I'm not saying that iPods are terrible or anything, but I just think that the sansa is a better value overall.
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On July 13 2008 15:22 Ecael wrote:
iRiver iHP-120 from 4 or so years back, it gets pretty good use. Nothing amazing about it I suppose, though back then having support for ogg was big for me as the online p2p community were experimenting with different kinds of audio formats. Radio is nice too, though I don't tend to catch much of anything being in NY and riding subway for most of my commute.
Oh, and as for the iPod, not sure why anyone would put up with it, especially the Touch with the new iPhone.
I also still use my iRiver iHP-120, best player ever made.
They still release custom firmware updates for it if you're interested, www.rockbox.org.
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United States22883 Posts
On July 14 2008 04:43 Shauni wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2008 23:42 Jibba wrote:On July 13 2008 15:38 Shauni wrote:
Do you have thousands of useful 3rd party applications available like dictionaries, programming languages? MSN? IRC? Youtube/Video downloading? FTP Server? Do you have lots of cool games on it? CAN YOU EVEN PLAY MONKEY ISLAND 3 ON YOUR ZEN? EH? CAN YOU? Yeah, but you could've gotten an iPhone to do the exact same thing, or one of the better smart phones out there. No, you can't, because Apple is a slow ass discriminating company which can't release products worldwide. But I don't really get your point, cause if you want mobile features, you buy an iPhone, but if you don't like cancer you buy an iTouch. I dislike Apple because they are hypocrites (Adding 'public' limited 3rd party support now?) and also because they made the world's most shitty software ever - iTunes. BUT, their mp3 players have always held high class in competition with other players, many people whine at iPod users cause they're 'bandwagoners' yet the iRiver and Zen players have at least as many flaws as the iPods...
Well, if you lived in the US you could get an iPhone + contract for less than a Touch + cell phone.
And no, the other players do not have as many flaws as iPods. People complain about iPods because head to head, in features and quality, they have never been a top performer. Creative made better players than the first 2 generations of iPod, iRiver has always had fantastic players and right now the Zune 80 costs the same as the Classic 80, yet has a bigger screen, built in radio, better sound quality and comes with high quality ear buds. But the iPod will always sell much, much more because of marketing. I don't see how you can possible look at them head to head and conclude an iPod Classic is the better player.
Lets not forget the first 3 generations of iPods (when they were actually making money off of them) had serious battery issues and needed to be replaced. Don't give me that "tried and true" crap, no one brand has had a major defect like those iPods had.
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US is not the same as worldwide you know...
And all mp3 players have 'serious' battery issues. After a number of charges they become weak and die out, it's the same no matter what player you use.
Most companies uses almost identical lithium ion batteries, and it was the same back then too. Zen had practically same batteries, just slightly thicker for longer lifespan. The era where HDD players dominated sucked no matter what brand you use. They broke when you dropped them and the batteries had to compromise a lot to fit them into such small mp3 players.
And if we talk about the present, I think it's quite easy to justify to buy an iTouch or iPhone, not because Apple makes better players - rather because the fan service is enormous.
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I just replaced my old ass iPod Mini (Mini lol, it's fucking huge now) with an iPod Shuffle 1gb. I figured I don't really need a display, or a lot of space, since I mostly use it when I'm out running.
I absolutely love it. It's so small I can't even feel it while I'm running. Also, it costed less than 50$, which was also nice.
I don't get why people go crazy when someone say they have an iPod, I think they're fine, plus the design is good. I also don't really see what's so horrible about iTunes.
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It's very resourcekilling with lots of stupid bugs... Every time i plugin my iTouch I can barely use any other application because it's at 99%CPU power constantly. And you can't shut the damn ass program down either, cause it just keeps popping up and want to sync again and again. Plus it locks up pretty frequent while syncing. The interface is homosexual with no usability level at all, there's barely any properties available. On top of it you can't change the ugly macish skin. And Apple doesn't just force you to install iTunes NONO, they also force you to install extra programs aka malware aka Quicktime.
Also, it didn't support older systems like win98, even while it was still popular, which is a quite obvious flaw since people either had to buy XP or trash their iPod. Sometimes it refuses to transfer properly coded videos for no apparent reason. The iTunes is made to use with your whole library, but if you would really be so stupid as to add a big library of music into iTunes you'd experience just how slow and resourcekilling the program is. Man, it can't even handle the random function with my library, cause it lags like hell every time it changes songs - and my computer isn't THAT bad (2gb ram and 4000+). Starting the program takes forever in comparison with other media players... I could go on forever.
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United States22883 Posts
On July 14 2008 15:03 Shauni wrote:
US is not the same as worldwide you know...
And all mp3 players have 'serious' battery issues. After a number of charges they become weak and die out, it's the same no matter what player you use.
Most companies uses almost identical lithium ion batteries, and it was the same back then too. Zen had practically same batteries, just slightly thicker for longer lifespan. The era where HDD players dominated sucked no matter what brand you use. They broke when you dropped them and the batteries had to compromise a lot to fit them into such small mp3 players.
And if we talk about the present, I think it's quite easy to justify to buy an iTouch or iPhone, not because Apple makes better players - rather because the fan service is enormous.
No? The earlier Zen batteries had good staying power and the middle generation of iRiver players could easily take a fall and don't have any battery issues similar to what iPods had.
1-3G were lasting for under 8 hours new and dropped to about half of expected battery life in less than a year, forcing Apple to settle a class action lawsuit to pay back many owners and supply them replacement batteries. That's also when they began their battery replacement program. A large number of people can tell you Apple's early lithium ion batteries fared far worse than any competitor.
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