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On June 13 2008 15:00 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2008 14:10 Last Romantic wrote:
How it works with me is that I know and confess to being an atrocious student, because I am. I heed next to no scholarly mores, and am an all-round slacker.
I still think the vast majority of tests are easy though. And I don't study for them. I sacrifice almost all points on homework by not doing any, and laze my way through school - is that inherently bad? I see it more as a flaw in our American academic system than my failures as a 'falsely modest' student.
It's fine if people say whatever the hell they want about how they did on a test; that's largely irrelevant. I can make my own judgments as to the intelligence of a person [tests don't cover that, anyway].
Attaching intelligence to academic success is rather silly. Sort of a tangent to what you said, but whatever. Enjoy it. College is literally absolutely nothing like this, if you're doing a real course of study (aka not Psychology, Sociology, or any of the bullshit majors). Trust me, you probably think, nah, it's fine, I'll get it - I breezed through high school with perfect A's and a 1600 SAT, never ever studying for a test, and I can't hold it down in college without significant work.
The social sciences get a bad rap because they're easy to pass.
However, the difference between social sciences and "real" courses of study is that to be recognized in social sciences, you need to have intuition above and beyond what you can learn from studying. To be recognized in physical sciences, you need to study something above and beyond what you can learn from intuition.
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Man I totally agree, it's a bit like "Retired" Draco who didnt practice at all....
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I'm one of those who don't learn much but get good results (almost never the best though). And I know someone who *ALWAYS* says "that was so hard, I'm so fucked, I know I got this wrong and that wrong and everything omg", and guess what, this guy gets top grades *consistently*.
It's a lot about discipline and personality IMHO... if you think you suck, you'll learn more and more efficiently, so you'll have better results. If you think you can make it without learning much, or if you think "I'm good at that, no need to prepare" you'll never be the best because you don't push yourself enough to become it.
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On June 13 2008 17:51 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2008 17:26 glassmazarin wrote:
seriously, you cant just say that there isnt hard tests.
i dont know bout you, but where i study different doctors/professors are known to have different difficulties on their tests. ofcourse there is some sort of difficulty distribution where tests out in the distribution tail is extremely hard.. ok well... can you tell me how a test can be HARD ? I mean, let's forget about some crazy theoretical or w/e the fuck mathematicians or physicians do in labs or whatever.. nothing insanely complicated like that gets taught at undergrad levels. but seriously, (and I'm mainly just talking about undergrad stuff here...) how can something really be hard in and of itself? i really refuse to accept that something is inherently difficult... I believe that if you have basic skills necessary, aren't an idiot, and pay attention in class / study on your own... any test on any subject taught in the undergrad level should NOT be difficult. my roommate complains to me sometimes like "oh engineering is so much harder than poli sci" but that in itself seems stupid to me. people who go into engineering ENJOY doing that stuff... they've presumably taken tons of math classes, are passionate about the subject, so how can it be hard? for example... I would struggle in engineering classes because I don't have the math background, or interest enough in the subject to dedicate to learning it... the same as my roommate doesn't have the skills or interest necessary to do well in Poli Sci classes. BUT, he has the passion and skills for engineering, so it should be easy IF he legitimately puts in the effort... obviously if you half ass it or lie to yourself about your effort, something may SEEM hard, but if you honestly give it your best effort and it still seems hard, then there's something wrong with what you did. honestly, and I'm not close minded and unaccepting of admitting I am mistaken, but if anybody can provide some solid arguments on how something pre-graduate level can be extremely difficult in and of itself, I'd like to hear it.
ok, lets say we have a course in whatever subject, which is supposed to last 10 weeks. now imagine a teacher thinking "well, i think i can fit all this stuff in 5 weeks". the result? you have to work twice as hard in order to pass the course, and the test will inevitably be harder since you had less time to study for it.
the thing is that the ppl creating the courses doenst always manage to estimate the amount of work required to pass the course... this is especially the case with newer courses, which hasnt got very much student feedback yet.
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weird maybe its your school, people are usually "i had work last night i wish i had studied" or "i studied a lot but the shit just dont sink in."
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On June 13 2008 14:02 Xeris wrote:
One of the only tests I thought was legitimately hard was AP Computer Science, especially because I didn't learn jack shit in the class (and almost everyone failed the test).
COP OUT.
<3
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If I said "the test was easy" when everyone else found it hard then they look at me with a look of digust 
So I lie and say it was hard. Then I look liky even more of an asshole when I get a good result on that "hard test" 
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What I hate most is when people say they didn't study and then get a real crap grade (like 4 out of 10) and shout YESS OMG I DIDNT STUDY AT ALL AND STILL GOT A 4.
Whatever, literally all those people transfered to a crappier level of education halfway of high school. (In Holland you have different levels of high school education.)
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On June 13 2008 17:51 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2008 17:26 glassmazarin wrote:
seriously, you cant just say that there isnt hard tests.
i dont know bout you, but where i study different doctors/professors are known to have different difficulties on their tests. ofcourse there is some sort of difficulty distribution where tests out in the distribution tail is extremely hard.. ok well... can you tell me how a test can be HARD ? I mean, let's forget about some crazy theoretical or w/e the fuck mathematicians or physicians do in labs or whatever.. nothing insanely complicated like that gets taught at undergrad levels. but seriously, (and I'm mainly just talking about undergrad stuff here...) how can something really be hard in and of itself? i really refuse to accept that something is inherently difficult... I believe that if you have basic skills necessary, aren't an idiot, and pay attention in class / study on your own... any test on any subject taught in the undergrad level should NOT be difficult. my roommate complains to me sometimes like "oh engineering is so much harder than poli sci" but that in itself seems stupid to me. people who go into engineering ENJOY doing that stuff... they've presumably taken tons of math classes, are passionate about the subject, so how can it be hard? for example... I would struggle in engineering classes because I don't have the math background, or interest enough in the subject to dedicate to learning it... the same as my roommate doesn't have the skills or interest necessary to do well in Poli Sci classes. BUT, he has the passion and skills for engineering, so it should be easy IF he legitimately puts in the effort... obviously if you half ass it or lie to yourself about your effort, something may SEEM hard, but if you honestly give it your best effort and it still seems hard, then there's something wrong with what you did. honestly, and I'm not close minded and unaccepting of admitting I am mistaken, but if anybody can provide some solid arguments on how something pre-graduate level can be extremely difficult in and of itself, I'd like to hear it.
i consider a class hard if you have to work really much for it. to say that there is nothing inherently difficult as an undergrad is BS imho. i study physics and we had to do some stuff i would consider hard. you are right in that you can pass most tests well if you prepare well enough, but passing a test doesnt mean at all that you understood what you did. i.e. as an undergrad in physics you often use math you got no real clue about (there is some undergrad stuff i still dont understand(if i think about it there is little stuff i do really understand)).
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Germany2044 Posts
On June 13 2008 15:33 snowbird wrote:
i have my final japanese exam in one hour
OH SHIT
time for some false modesty, hope it works and i get an A
ok, so the test was very hard
(according to your theory i'll get an A now)
but actually i believe i didn't make it
god i hate kanji
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oh god
i hated physics so bad
it dropped my gpa so much t.t
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On June 13 2008 22:45 aqui wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2008 17:51 Xeris wrote:On June 13 2008 17:26 glassmazarin wrote:
seriously, you cant just say that there isnt hard tests.
i dont know bout you, but where i study different doctors/professors are known to have different difficulties on their tests. ofcourse there is some sort of difficulty distribution where tests out in the distribution tail is extremely hard.. ok well... can you tell me how a test can be HARD ? I mean, let's forget about some crazy theoretical or w/e the fuck mathematicians or physicians do in labs or whatever.. nothing insanely complicated like that gets taught at undergrad levels. but seriously, (and I'm mainly just talking about undergrad stuff here...) how can something really be hard in and of itself? i really refuse to accept that something is inherently difficult... I believe that if you have basic skills necessary, aren't an idiot, and pay attention in class / study on your own... any test on any subject taught in the undergrad level should NOT be difficult. my roommate complains to me sometimes like "oh engineering is so much harder than poli sci" but that in itself seems stupid to me. people who go into engineering ENJOY doing that stuff... they've presumably taken tons of math classes, are passionate about the subject, so how can it be hard? for example... I would struggle in engineering classes because I don't have the math background, or interest enough in the subject to dedicate to learning it... the same as my roommate doesn't have the skills or interest necessary to do well in Poli Sci classes. BUT, he has the passion and skills for engineering, so it should be easy IF he legitimately puts in the effort... obviously if you half ass it or lie to yourself about your effort, something may SEEM hard, but if you honestly give it your best effort and it still seems hard, then there's something wrong with what you did. honestly, and I'm not close minded and unaccepting of admitting I am mistaken, but if anybody can provide some solid arguments on how something pre-graduate level can be extremely difficult in and of itself, I'd like to hear it. i consider a class hard if you have to work really much for it. to say that there is nothing inherently difficult as an undergrad is BS imho. i study physics and we had to do some stuff i would consider hard. you are right in that you can pass most tests well if you prepare well enough, but passing a test doesnt mean at all that you understood what you did. i.e. as an undergrad in physics you often use math you got no real clue about (there is some undergrad stuff i still dont understand(if i think about it there is little stuff i do really understand)).
that could be true, I honestly don't know for sure because I've never taken any real high level of physics, but you have to think.. someone taking high level physics has probably taken a bunch of high level math, and several other physics courses before. he should have the necessary background information to be able to grasp the information learned in that course, and as long as he studies enough, should be able to succeed. and again, my definition of success =/= 100%'s or anything... but a person should be able to walk out of any test thinking "I'm pretty sure I did well on that" assuming they spent a sufficient amount of time preparing.... and also realize, the amount of preparation needed to do well on exams is different for everybody... 5 hours may be enough for someone, 20 hours may be enough for another person, it's all relative.
oh and to I forgot who else... I in no way think I am a genius... I have a few friends who are geniuses and they make me look retarded in comparison. I'd say that in general, I'm probably smarter than an average person, but I am nowhere close to being a genius, I've known that for a looong time.. I wish I could understand things fully with no study time, but I realize I have to put some hours in.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On June 13 2008 17:51 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2008 17:26 glassmazarin wrote:
seriously, you cant just say that there isnt hard tests.
i dont know bout you, but where i study different doctors/professors are known to have different difficulties on their tests. ofcourse there is some sort of difficulty distribution where tests out in the distribution tail is extremely hard.. ok well... can you tell me how a test can be HARD ? I mean, let's forget about some crazy theoretical or w/e the fuck mathematicians or physicians do in labs or whatever.. nothing insanely complicated like that gets taught at undergrad levels. but seriously, (and I'm mainly just talking about undergrad stuff here...) how can something really be hard in and of itself? i really refuse to accept that something is inherently difficult... I believe that if you have basic skills necessary, aren't an idiot, and pay attention in class / study on your own... any test on any subject taught in the undergrad level should NOT be difficult. my roommate complains to me sometimes like "oh engineering is so much harder than poli sci" but that in itself seems stupid to me. people who go into engineering ENJOY doing that stuff... they've presumably taken tons of math classes, are passionate about the subject, so how can it be hard? for example... I would struggle in engineering classes because I don't have the math background, or interest enough in the subject to dedicate to learning it... the same as my roommate doesn't have the skills or interest necessary to do well in Poli Sci classes. BUT, he has the passion and skills for engineering, so it should be easy IF he legitimately puts in the effort... obviously if you half ass it or lie to yourself about your effort, something may SEEM hard, but if you honestly give it your best effort and it still seems hard, then there's something wrong with what you did. honestly, and I'm not close minded and unaccepting of admitting I am mistaken, but if anybody can provide some solid arguments on how something pre-graduate level can be extremely difficult in and of itself, I'd like to hear it.
bio majors can pass poli sci
poli sci majors can't pass bio
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Calgary25977 Posts
lol 
degree elitism GO!
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On June 14 2008 04:29 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2008 17:51 Xeris wrote:On June 13 2008 17:26 glassmazarin wrote:
seriously, you cant just say that there isnt hard tests.
i dont know bout you, but where i study different doctors/professors are known to have different difficulties on their tests. ofcourse there is some sort of difficulty distribution where tests out in the distribution tail is extremely hard.. ok well... can you tell me how a test can be HARD ? I mean, let's forget about some crazy theoretical or w/e the fuck mathematicians or physicians do in labs or whatever.. nothing insanely complicated like that gets taught at undergrad levels. but seriously, (and I'm mainly just talking about undergrad stuff here...) how can something really be hard in and of itself? i really refuse to accept that something is inherently difficult... I believe that if you have basic skills necessary, aren't an idiot, and pay attention in class / study on your own... any test on any subject taught in the undergrad level should NOT be difficult. my roommate complains to me sometimes like "oh engineering is so much harder than poli sci" but that in itself seems stupid to me. people who go into engineering ENJOY doing that stuff... they've presumably taken tons of math classes, are passionate about the subject, so how can it be hard? for example... I would struggle in engineering classes because I don't have the math background, or interest enough in the subject to dedicate to learning it... the same as my roommate doesn't have the skills or interest necessary to do well in Poli Sci classes. BUT, he has the passion and skills for engineering, so it should be easy IF he legitimately puts in the effort... obviously if you half ass it or lie to yourself about your effort, something may SEEM hard, but if you honestly give it your best effort and it still seems hard, then there's something wrong with what you did. honestly, and I'm not close minded and unaccepting of admitting I am mistaken, but if anybody can provide some solid arguments on how something pre-graduate level can be extremely difficult in and of itself, I'd like to hear it. bio majors can pass poli sci poli sci majors can't pass bio
manner~
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A response to the original point:
I think one of the reasons for this "false modesty" is that people may have different standards of hard/easy and good/bad. For instance, I'm a 4.0 student. If I don't instantly know 90% of the questions on a test, then for me, that test is very very hard, in comparison to other tests I take. I'm used to knowing about 97% of all the answers right off the bat, that for me is an "easy" test.
In a similar vein, doing good/bad is relative. I consider a 90% on a test to be horrible for me. A 95% is alright, and a 100% is good. When I say "I don't think I did very well," it means I think I got around a 90%--because for me, that isn't very good.
While I agree that this acts as a defense mechanism for many people, there are those who genuinely consider "hard" or "bad" what others consider "easy" or "good."
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On June 14 2008 04:29 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2008 17:51 Xeris wrote:On June 13 2008 17:26 glassmazarin wrote:
seriously, you cant just say that there isnt hard tests.
i dont know bout you, but where i study different doctors/professors are known to have different difficulties on their tests. ofcourse there is some sort of difficulty distribution where tests out in the distribution tail is extremely hard.. ok well... can you tell me how a test can be HARD ? I mean, let's forget about some crazy theoretical or w/e the fuck mathematicians or physicians do in labs or whatever.. nothing insanely complicated like that gets taught at undergrad levels. but seriously, (and I'm mainly just talking about undergrad stuff here...) how can something really be hard in and of itself? i really refuse to accept that something is inherently difficult... I believe that if you have basic skills necessary, aren't an idiot, and pay attention in class / study on your own... any test on any subject taught in the undergrad level should NOT be difficult. my roommate complains to me sometimes like "oh engineering is so much harder than poli sci" but that in itself seems stupid to me. people who go into engineering ENJOY doing that stuff... they've presumably taken tons of math classes, are passionate about the subject, so how can it be hard? for example... I would struggle in engineering classes because I don't have the math background, or interest enough in the subject to dedicate to learning it... the same as my roommate doesn't have the skills or interest necessary to do well in Poli Sci classes. BUT, he has the passion and skills for engineering, so it should be easy IF he legitimately puts in the effort... obviously if you half ass it or lie to yourself about your effort, something may SEEM hard, but if you honestly give it your best effort and it still seems hard, then there's something wrong with what you did. honestly, and I'm not close minded and unaccepting of admitting I am mistaken, but if anybody can provide some solid arguments on how something pre-graduate level can be extremely difficult in and of itself, I'd like to hear it. bio majors can pass poli sci poli sci majors can't pass bio
not true.
I am a Poli Sci major - I also have a concentration in biology... and I passed every bio class I took.
I had to work harder in bio classes than in Poli Sci classes, but that's just because of my lack of background / high degree of interest in the subject... but ya, your argument isn't refuting my claim. If Poli Sci majors work hard enough, they can pass bio classes.
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Wtf, "bullshit majors"? Sounds like whining. If you were good at your own major you wouldn't care how difficult the others are.
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My pet peeve is people who can't write concisely.
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Haha, I'm usually pretty honest when I say I think I did bad. Thank god for multiple choice!
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EPT
