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So I have started playing WcIII today on LAN and Im having big problems in defeating my friend (well, I dont know the strategies, build orders and have big problem with the units...).
A quick search on google gave me no good results..
Basically, my friend is playing night elves, and Im playing humans (I could switch though..) and I wonder which hero should I choose and which units.
I could switch to other race too, since I dont know any (we really, really suck, because we got the game recently) - Im searching either for a protoss equivalent I think (strong ground melee units? something like zealots) or some sort of mnm equivalent (range+heal.. so I can micro - we both suck, so it should work).
Basically, could anyone refer me to a nice website with some basic strats? My starcraft micro should allow me to defeat him easily, after I know which units to build (I dont have much time to learn the game).
I noticed that my knights could not kill his horse-like units (sorry, dont know the English name), despite the fact I easliy surrounded them...
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wow, thanks that was quick
am=archmage? (which spell?) + these wizard guys with rifles?
anything else?
is there any sort of medic?
is there any science vessel equivalent? cuz he always hides in the dark?
I noticed that 2-3 towers might be enough for me to save my expo (basically run there) - are they worth it?
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Wcreplays.com is probably the best site for strats and wc3 news (essentially the TL.net equivalent for WC3)
As for strategies, I haven't played wc3 in a long ass time so most of my knowledge is gone, but if you guys are noobs then this should help.
The closest thing to a protoss equivalent is probably Orc (some might argue NE...but I have no idea what their argument is for that).
If you want to stick to human though get Archmage as your first hero (everything after this I'm very close to clueless on but I think I have a basic grip). Then choose water elementals as your first spell and use them+town militia (workers who've been called to arms) to do some early creeping. Then later in the game use (at this point I REALLY don't know much of what I'm saying) get a bunch of spellbreakers if the NE has alot of casters, or riflecaster ((rifles+priests+w/e other magic users human has)I don't think anyone does this anymore, but since you say you're noob it'd probably be imba against your friend) if he has anything else.
Also as for your other heros, get Mountain King second, then Paladin third. I'm pretty confident that setup is still being used.
(damn I love parenthesis)
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Sweden33719 Posts
I dunno much about WC3 but IIRC isn't there like 'dust of revelation' or something like that, that you can buy from your tomb of relics (which detects cloaked units)?
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AM, MK, Paladin
and a mix of Riflemen, Sorcs, Priests, Mortars, Knights.
The dryads are best countered by mortars and/or riflemen
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Played human vs human, I think I outmacroed him but:
a) I couldnt find his base (LOL!)
b) only the hero teleported to my expo. All the units left T_T
noob level 1:1 is so funny :D
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Ya get the Archmage as your first and get Water then Brilliance for good harrassing, creeping, and support for your casters. The thing with WC is there is like an equivalent for all the races. So to answer your question about ranged units with healing, for human, get riflemen and priests. Riflemen RAPE huntresses if you target them one at a time. You must do this because the game has such a low damage to hit-point ratio. Human casters are VERY strong as both the priests and sorecesses have sick abilities with auto-cast right off the bat (God I sound like Gentho). And the Spell breaker is awesome for countering his dryads.
It's a really different game than SC though I feel. I could say more but I have to go run, hope what I said helps a little bit.
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United States549 Posts
there isnt really a protoss or zerg or terran equivalent, a lot of gameplay things are mashed up(NE can move buildings, undead creep stuff, undead warp in buildings)
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The most important thing for HUvNE is TIMING. It's like TvP, there is a ticking timebomb and once you pass that threshold, you're fucked (as Human).
In TvP, once P reaches critical mass with carriers, it's really hard for T to do anything (esp. on some maps). In HUvNE, the timebomb is BEARS and, to a lesser degree, Demon Hunter. The latter is much rarer, but you should know - if DH hits lvl 6 and gets his ulti, you are fucked. The Meta ulti can take out entire armies and equivalent lvl heroes EASILY. So the first thing you have to learn right off the bat is MICRO YOUR BALLS OFF and DON'T LET PEOPLE DIE.
Bears - if NE reaches critical mass with bears (like 5-6), it is almost gg. I mean, yes, grpyhs and shit are good, but in a realistic game, it is very possible for a well-played NE to reach mass bears like that and rather DIFFICULT for a HU to reach his own powerful late-game units (like grpyhs). Knights can be useful, but to be completely honest, bears are the shit. Bears rape all other equivalent units (knights, taurens, aboms) because though some may be stronger or cheaper, bears are the perfect mix of cost, strength, and MAGIC. Not only can they deal crazy damage and not only are they relatively inexpensive, they have sick spells like roar and rejuv (basically, bonus to combat and healing).
Best hero hands down vs NE is Archmage. This is for several reasons: 1) Pally sucks dick as a 1st hero cuz it can't creep and MK is RAPED by DH (because DH will constant manaburn you and that makes the MK nothing better than a big footman) 2) The AM is hurt by manaburn too, but he has BRILLIANCE AURA, which is crucial for helping to recover vs that horrible MB 3) Water Elementals are AMAZING tanks for creeping plus they do PIERCING dmg, which is KEY vs early NE units
Okay, the easiest way to win HUvsNE is to master the TIMING. What timing am I talking about? The TIMING RIFLE PUSH. There is a WINDOW when NE is transitioning from early game units (archers and huntresses) to lore units (dryads then bears). From what I remember, NE will open with archers and creep, then tech straight to dryads, while upgrading bear mastery (because druids of the claw are only really good once they get mastery and can turn into bears). Mass dryads are a problem, esp. with poison, but they are not game finishers - they are used by the NE to buy TIME while they get those bears.
As HU, you should level your AM as quickly as possible to 3 (to get lvl2 WE) and then strike at the critical juncture when NE has some dryads, archers, and MAYBE a DoC or two popping out. Your unit mix? RIFLEMEN (and lots of them), PRIESTS, and SORCS. The sorcs focus fire on the bears, the rifles and WE take down archers/dryads easily, and hte priests heal. Your second hero should probably be either the MK, to soak up the DH's manaburns (and thus keep the AM's mana intact) and tank, OR the Naga sea-witch, to make focusfiring easier with rifles (cold arrow plz).
Now, HU vs NE is pretty tough, because NE has so many tricks/variations, esp. with heroes. Once you hit lvl 3 with AM, you MUST try to keep him from creeping, you must bother him, harass him, etc., because otherwise, DH lvling up will own you. Not to mention, the NE will get a 2nd hero in the form of either a Naga or a Panda and if EITHER of those heroes reach lvl 3, you are probably fucked. Panda rapes all human units (rifles, sorcs, priests, doesn't matter) once it starts lvling up its BoF and Naga will ensure the death of your AM (cold-arrow + DH attacks/MB will finish off AM pretty easily).
Your mission is to master the timing of the rifle push and hit HARD when you have that opportunity. The fact is that HU WILL get rifles/sorc/priest and lvl 3 AM before NE gets bears. So the NE will respond by trying to disrupt your creeping, by getting in your face, picking off rifles or whatever, doing whatever he can to DELAY YOUR TIMING. You need to be cool as fuck and learn how to creep quickly/efficiently without getting fucked up by the NE harass attempts, so that you can hit him with riflepush at the correct time. Otherwise, if you get delayed, you will end up pushing against him when he already has a few bears and that just makes shit 28394x more complicated.
The OTHER strategy for HU is obviously FAST EXPO. This is possible usually only on certain maps, but many of the official toruney maps allow this. Basically, get AM and creep your expo with a couple footmen, militia, and WE. Get your 2nd expo and TOWER UP. Abuse towers. This is not SC - mass static defense is actually a BITCH to take down, ESPECIALLY HU towers which have heavy armor instead of usual building armor (meaning they take very little dmg from siege weapons). From there, you can proceed to MASS RIFLE/CASTER (2 rax, 2 sanctums - pump it out) and just dominate on the field, switching to heavier caster #'s and even grpyhs if possible when the NE gets bears and shit. As usual, the FE strat is weakest only to the NE harassment tactics - if you get your FE up and running without a problem, it's usually a good opening for you.
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I dont recomend playing a rifle caster strat if your chobo. the push requires a huge amount of micro (that is the 9 minute push vs bear tech) to succeed with, and after bears come out, and you dont win, you basically need to switch tech immediatly and start pumping breakers, otherwise you'll just get raped. studying some fast expansion builds would help greatly, check out any human player on ei/tm/ts. gl hf!
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Human is pretty hard on low levels, especially if you try to do the pro strats.
An easy way out:
Night Elf: 4 wisps on gold, 1 to make altar, next out makes moon well, next on gold, next wisps on wood. Make one ancient of war and a huntress hall when you have 160 wood, make a moon well and another ancient of war when you got the wood, and then just mass huntresses. Push before he gets high tier units.
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I was/am a human player. If I suspect that the NE is not that good, I will certainly tower rush. There are two times you can do this:
1. After your hero pops out, you will already have seen the NE build - if it's fast huntress/fast tech (meaning no AoW in base), he will be susceptible to tower rush. You basically throw down a lumber mill and bring 4 militia, putting them on auto repair and speed build 2-3 towers. At this point, you will use the AM/foots to pick off wisps, building AoWs, put damage on DH. Keep building foot/peasants at home - you will possibly need to send another 2-4 militia against a good player.
2. To guarantee that the rifle push works, you can do basically the same thing when you push. I prefer to tower rush at this point typically because you often won't get the opportunity for the first rush.
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Hey wanna play against me? I just started like two days ago, so I'm really bad. maybe we can get better somewhat if we play each other.
Orc partoftheforce@lordaeron
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EPT
