Conceptual hacking question

BluzMan

Russian Federation4235 Posts

April 21 2008 22:56 GMT

Now, let's say I bought a brand new keyboard that lets me program macro commands. I use the accompanying software to bind one of it's macro buttons to the following macro command:

1-A-LC(left click)-2-A-LC-3-A-LC-4-A-LC-5-A-LC

Now, if I press that button while playing SC, my control groups 1-5 will attack-move to wherever my mouse pointer is when I press it.

The question is: can this be considered hacking? IMPORTANT: explain your answer.

Poll: Is this equivalent to hacking?
(Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): I'm not sure

HamerD

United Kingdom1922 Posts

April 21 2008 22:58 GMT

yes imo

oops i mean no...it's cheating not hacking

BluzMan

Russian Federation4235 Posts

April 21 2008 23:00 GMT

Ok, I'll make it bold and caps.

micronesia

United States24745 Posts

April 21 2008 23:02 GMT

I am tempted to say it's not hacking since you aren't taking advantage of the game in any way. Instead of a Dell keyboard you are using a super special macrocommands keyboard. It might be banned from leagues and ladders, but it's not really hacking.

stenole

Norway869 Posts

April 21 2008 23:06 GMT

I would say yes if it applies to competitive gaming in tournaments etc. Imagine if this player is put on a computer that is not his own for a tournament. I think it would be ridiculous to allow him to load up his keyboard macros.

On bnet, iccup etc I wouldn't care. I don't think it's enough of an advantage to ruin the game like map hacks and mineral hacks will.

born-to-porn

Denmark400 Posts

April 21 2008 23:08 GMT

I'd consider it hacking, simply because it gives you an unfair advantage over your opponent. Now I wouldn't ban you from any ladders if I caught you using this, but if we were to play a friendly game I'd definitely want you to turn it off.

New Zealand6138 Posts

April 21 2008 23:12 GMT

I would consider it a form of cheating, yes. It's giving you an unfair advantage.

fusionsdf

Canada15390 Posts

April 21 2008 23:16 GMT

macro and micro are integral parts of the game. Part of the challenge of the game comes from mastering micro. 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a and those sorts of things are part of the challenge of micro.

By getting rid of that, you give yourself an unfair advantage over other players.

So it is definitely cheating.

Whether you want to call it hacking or not is more terminology than anything else, but it is definitely not a good thing to do.

quiong

United States268 Posts

April 21 2008 23:17 GMT

It's cheating, but not hacking. Hacking would specifically refer to modifying the software. This gives you an advantage over your opponent through other means. If you physically unplugged your opponent's keyboard during a game, you would also get an unfair advantage... but nobody would call that hacking. It's just cheating.

NathanSC

United States620 Posts

April 21 2008 23:18 GMT

#10

On April 22 2008 08:16 fusionsdf wrote:
macro and micro are integral parts of the game. Part of the challenge of the game comes from mastering micro. 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a and those sorts of things are part of the challenge of micro.

By getting rid of that, you give yourself an unfair advantage over other players.

So it is definitely cheating.

Whether you want to call it hacking or not is more terminology than anything else, but it is definitely not a good thing to do.

Elric

United Kingdom1327 Posts

April 21 2008 23:21 GMT

#11

Hacking? No

Cheating? Yes

Equivalent to hacking in its effect? Yes

You're not poking around with the code/scripts etc. Just using an extreme form of keymapping. However as fusionsdf says you're giving yourself a significantly unfair advantage. You cheat!

BluzMan

Russian Federation4235 Posts

April 21 2008 23:44 GMT

#12

The real question is where to draw the line from which the advantage gets significant? Technically, just getting a better DPI mouse means giving yourself an advantage over the other player.

quiong

United States268 Posts

April 21 2008 23:53 GMT

#13

On April 22 2008 08:44 BluzMan wrote:
The real question is where to draw the line from which the advantage gets significant? Technically, just getting a better DPI mouse means giving yourself an advantage over the other player.

That's a good point.. i think the advantage becomes "significant" when the advantage is not merely an incremental one, but rather some additional function. A more responsive mouse/keyboard gives you just an incremental advantage, the other player can still do everything you do with the same actions. But a keyboard with programmable macro buttons gives you added function, which is not available to the other player.

Hurricane

United States3939 Posts

April 21 2008 23:55 GMT

#14

I'm pretty sure macro keyboards are banned from LAN tournaments, so I don't see how this wouldn't be considered illegal. Hacking, probably not considering it is not manipulating the game in anyway, but it is cheating.

ShaLLoW[baY]

Canada12499 Posts

April 21 2008 23:58 GMT

#15

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=69222 Thread that discussed this not too long ago.

My opinion? It's not hacking, as the game files aren't being modified. It is, however, 100% cheating.

fusionsdf

Canada15390 Posts

April 21 2008 23:58 GMT

#16

you define it where its an unintended exploit....but really its just common sense.

Most people will see macro keys as cheating, because macro is an intended challenge, and you are using a script to unfairly bypass that.

A super precise mouse doesnt bypass the challenges of micro...it wont do 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a for you. Its just a little more accurate.

In the end, its just common sense.

ShaLLoW[baY]

Canada12499 Posts

April 22 2008 00:02 GMT

#17

To build on what fusion says, anyone can get good at 1a2a3a4a5a6a7a8a9a0a with enough training and practice, but they will never be able to do it as quickly and consistently as a macro keyboard would allow. It's not even a crutch, like a higher DPI mouse or a keyboard with unnecessary keys ripped out, it's a complete replacement of skill.

Ancestral

United States3230 Posts

April 22 2008 00:59 GMT

#18

I would say it is equivalent to hacking, but I can't be sure people across the tubes aren't using it (should it ever become commonplace). I will continue not to use it, and I won't mind if other people use it. I will still play my hardest to beat them, and if I ever get good enough to go to any LAN tournaments or anything like that (laugh) I'll be sure my opponents won't be using them. So if anything, public gamers on iCCup who use them will just push me farther. Though I will say, if you put a lot of work into it, a keyboard with macro keys could make a player a lot more efficient.

oneofthem

Cayman Islands24199 Posts

April 22 2008 01:21 GMT

#19

it is certainly "cheating," much like running in the olympics with rockets strapped onto your ass. hacking is merely a form of cheating, and if it is not hacking, that fact should not be very significant, unless we are to change the confines of the game to include "who's the best programmer."

Chef

10810 Posts

April 22 2008 01:27 GMT

#20

I think it takes away entertainment value from the game. Part of the intensity of StarCraft comes from those clutch moments when you have to do a lot of things really fast, without screwing up. If you just gotta press a button, it's kind of melodramatic. In the end, pro-StarCraft is about being dramatic, and I don't think they would ever allow macro keys in serious leagues. It's just not as fun to watch, knowing all someone did was press one button (when they should have pressed about 15).

Obviously just my opinion, but I don't think I'm alone.

I don't like that you used the word "hacking" because it obviously isn't by any current definition. We all know this, but it's in the same spirit of "hacking," which is to say it's cheating (and certainly not all "hacking" is in the spirit of cheating... just a really awful choice of words TBH

Ancestral

United States3230 Posts

April 22 2008 01:30 GMT

#21

Poll: Is this equivalent to hacking?

quiong

United States268 Posts

April 22 2008 02:18 GMT

#22

That would be a much better poll.

Snet

United States3573 Posts

April 22 2008 02:37 GMT

#23

Anything that you use to benefit your game other than the natural hotkeys is considered hacking in my opinion. Faster and more precise mouses are alright, but anything beyond that is kinda iffy.

Darkmole

United States900 Posts

April 22 2008 02:40 GMT

#24

its not hacking but its definetly cheating, and i think in my opinion if you keep on playing like that then suddenly you break ur keyboard then you get the normal average keyboard you might get a lil worse at sc in my opinion

Rus_Brain

Russian Federation1893 Posts

April 22 2008 03:44 GMT

#25

Not sure, but you wont be alowed to program your keyboard at WCG.
If you will, it's not a hack for me. But it so cheesy :r

teamsolid

Canada3668 Posts

April 22 2008 04:56 GMT

#26

Cheating: Using anything that gives you an unfair advantage over your opponent.

Hacking is a form of cheating among many others such as using a banned in-game exploit in BW. A macro keyboard would be considered a cheat.

BluzMan

Russian Federation4235 Posts

April 22 2008 07:48 GMT

#27

Poll: Is this equivalent to hacking?

That would be a much better poll.

ROFL.

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