EPTOn feedback and criticism - Page 3
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
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}-fiZZon-{
Russian Federation12 Posts
On January 24 2008 18:34 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: You don't need to respond. The point has been made, and I really don't care if you understand it because I don't listen to your commentaries anymore anyway. On to the other thing: that comment wasn't directed at you. I'm not gonna rattle off things that I've done that allow me to call someone with 8 posts I've never read a nobody after their ninth post is so ignorant. Furthermore, the insinuation that my attitude is disgraceful to the site I've put so much work into is utterly fucking offensive, and I suggest you don't take that notion any further. None of my posts are ignorant. I've provided links and backings to everything that I've said. What does the amount of posts that I have currently matter? Will my opinion matter more of I spam live threads to get my post count up like most people do? And this site has gotten big because of the respectful attitudes of Hot_Bid, Manifesto, and thedeadhaji. I have never seen a post from them purposely patronize the members of this community and their opinions are always well thought out. Because I pointed out the erroneous aspects of your post, the only thing you can fall back on is personally insulting me instead of defending your OWN claim? What I find offensive is the fact that you are displaying your contributions to this site as if you created it from the ground up and undermining the works of some of the exemplary people that represent this site, people i've listed above. I don't want to turn this into a flame fest, so I suggest you don't respond and move on. | ||
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Klaz
Ireland334 Posts
On to the other thing: that comment wasn't directed at you. I'm not gonna rattle off things that I've done that allow me to call someone with 8 posts I've never read a nobody after their ninth post is so ignorant. Furthermore, the insinuation that my attitude is disgraceful to the site I've put so much work into is utterly fucking offensive, and I suggest you don't take that notion any further. Honestly, remarks like that are not going to bully me into not stating my opinion. 8 posts or 2000 posts, you have no right to belittle someone else's opinion. You disagree fine, but pretending like they don't have a right to have an opinion is way out of line in MY OPINION. You can rattle of whatever you want. Nothing gives you that right. Last I checked this was an open community where people had a right to voice their opinions. Regardless of what work you have put into TL. Your attitude in belittling/dismissing someone else's opinion as if they are beneath you is disgraceful. I have achieved a lot in life. I don't consider it gives me the right to treat someone else's opinions as worthless and non-existant however strongly I disagree with them. The simple fact is that becuase you could not deal with his arguement you resorted to Ad Hominem attacks. | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On January 24 2008 18:36 teamsolid wrote: No, I'm talking about the content in addition to the tone (which is often even more important than the message itself). A lot of it is grabbing at straws, and really meaningless points. This part I disagree on. Some of the things you think are meaningless are, say, this: - 13:00, "Diggity do you think Jaedong is as on top of his game as any zerg can be right now?" wtf kind of a question is that? What could you have said? No, I think yarnc would be doing better? right? This is a valid criticism in that the only possible answer to this question is 'yes'. Commentators shouldn't be asking questions that don't need an answer. Jaedong is the best zerg on earth right now, no one needs to be told that he's on top of his game. As well, since Jaedong is the best player around, the suggestion that he's 'as on top of his game as any zerg can be' doesn't make sense. The only way to answer that question without unquestionably agreeing would be to suggest that another zerg has peaked in skill and is currently playing as good as he ever will, which doesn't make sense. If you notice how awkward the response was, you can tell the question caught the other commentator off-guard. Asking a question that leaves no room for an answer besides agreement doesn't make sense from a commentating standpoint. A preferable alternative would be to attempt to pinpoint exactly what makes Jaedong currently so much stronger than every other zerg. Even if the conclusion reached is way off-base, its better than asking what Klazart asked. You may disagree, and I think this in particular is one of the points that are questionable. I've only said that most or almost all of zulu's criticisms were accurate. There are certainly some things that are open to question. | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On January 24 2008 18:47 Klaz wrote: Honestly, remarks like that are not going to bully me into not stating my opinion. 8 posts or 2000 posts, you have no right to belittle someone else's opinion. You disagree fine, but pretending like they don't have a right to have an opinion is way out of line in MY OPINION. You can rattle of whatever you want. Nothing gives you that right. Last I checked this was an open community where people had a right to voice their opinions. Regardless of what work you have put into TL. Your attitude in belittling/dismissing someone else's opinion as if they are beneath you is disgraceful. I have achieved a lot in life. I don't consider it gives me the right to treat someone else's opinions as worthless and non-existant however strongly I disagree with them. The simple fact is that becuase you could not deal with his arguement you resorted to Ad Hominem attacks. If you were even the slightest bit correct on this, I wouldn't be a moderator. I can tell you're displeased with my post too, because you're acting like a child. You're trying to tell me how I'm a black mark on this wondrous site, look at yourself. I "couldn't deal with his arguement"? His post focuses on one detail, and my entire point was to downplay the importance of that detail and look at more important things. Give me a break. | ||
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Klaz
Ireland334 Posts
On January 24 2008 18:51 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: If you were even the slightest bit correct on this, I wouldn't be a moderator. Past actions and moderatorship notwithstanding, your remark in this thread speaks loudly and clearly, for itself. Hey here comes some nobody to tell me how wrong I am! Someone disagreed with you. You dismissed their opinion. And your stated reason is that based on their post count they are a nobody. I don't think there is much room for obfuscation here. The attitude displayed by you in that remark is unmistakable. | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On January 24 2008 18:57 Klaz wrote: Past actions and moderatorship notwithstanding, your remark in this thread speaks loudly and clearly, for itself. Past actions? You don't even know what I do here and you're trying to tell me I'm disgraceful to the site? You've got to be fucking kidding me. Someone disagreed with you. You dismissed their opinion. And your stated reason is that based on their post count they are a nobody. I don't think there is much room for obfuscation here. The attitude displayed by you in that remark is unmistakable. No. Someone posted something, and it was painfully evident that they just skimmed my post and jumped the fuck in. This is just an assumption you've made because you're too busy ACTING LIKE A CHILD to think before you post. | ||
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FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
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Klaz
Ireland334 Posts
I said clearly... your attitude as displayed by that remark is indeed disgraceful to the site, and I stand by that. You claim he skimmed your post. I don't agree. I read the entirety of your post. But nothing in it justifies calling someone a nobody. What does it matter if it is me or isn't me? I can still express my opinion on it. You're building up the site isn't what I'm questioning. But neither does it justify or expiate your actions. Regardless this is my last word on the matter. | ||
zatic
Zurich15366 Posts
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Manifesto7
Osaka27174 Posts
On January 24 2008 19:15 Klaz wrote: Your resorting to more and more aggressive and personal insults. I said clearly... your attitude as displayed by that remark is indeed disgraceful to the site, and I stand by that. You claim he skimmed your post. I don't agree. I read the entirety of your post. But nothing in it justifies calling someone a nobody. What does it matter if it is me or isn't me? I can still express my opinion on it. You're building up the site isn't what I'm questioning. But neither does it justify or expiate your actions. Regardless this is my last word on the matter. You are in no way qualified to judge what is "disgraceful" to this site. Especially not when you are talking to someone who has been here and contributed for years. Im cleaning this blog up in 10 minutes, after my sandwiches. | ||
GTR
51664 Posts
On January 24 2008 19:50 Manifesto7 wrote: You are in no way qualified to judge what is "disgraceful" to this site. Especially not when you are talking to someone who has been here and contributed for years. Im cleaning this blog up in 10 minutes, after my sandwiches. I want a sandwich  | ||
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Klaz
Ireland334 Posts
On January 24 2008 19:50 Manifesto7 wrote: You are in no way qualified to judge what is "disgraceful" to this site. Especially not when you are talking to someone who has been here and contributed for years. Im cleaning this blog up in 10 minutes, after my sandwiches. It's your site and your perogative. Calling someone a "nobody" because of a low post count is in my opinion a disgraceful thing to do. You can chose to condone or ignore it because it's someone who has long standing in the community/ has contributed/ is your friend, whatever. That's your choice. It doesn't change the essence of the truth. | ||
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Manifesto7
Osaka27174 Posts
Second, I dont really care so much about what zulu said and what you think about it. What I can't abide is that when someone differs in his opinion and takes the time to make his points, you dismiss him without taking into account any of his points. Steve IS a longstanding member of this community. He has earned his place at the table, and some faggot 8 post troll means NOTHING in comparison. That is the way this site has always worked. If you don't like it leave. However, you are in no position to dismiss him and his opinions with no evidence at all. Talk about the issues he raised, or ignore it. Do not be a child about it. | ||
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Klaz
Ireland334 Posts
On January 24 2008 20:17 Manifesto7 wrote: First, your a cry baby if you think that one or two people giving you negative feedback is out of line. I did commentaries for years before you even existed, and I had some people tell me they were the greatest, and others tell me I was a retard. Even today, people hound me on bnet and send me the worst PMs imaginable because they dont like what I do. Anything you release to the public domain will be treated that way. Stop crying about that. It is up to you do be more thick skinned about what is said on the internet. Second, I dont really care so much about what zulu said and what you think about it. What I can't abide is that when someone differs in his opinion and takes the time to make his points, you dismiss him without taking into account any of his points. Steve IS a longstanding member of this community. He has earned his place at the table, and some faggot 8 post troll means NOTHING in comparison. That is the way this site has always worked. If you don't like it leave. However, you are in no position to dismiss him and his opinions with no evidence at all. Talk about the issues he raised, or ignore it. Do not be a child about it. I tried to think of a rational response to something so filled with vitriole. I don't think it's possible You're name calling doesn't add validity to anything you said. You come running to defend your friend when he get's "attacked". Yet you tell other people to not be "cry babies." Your talk of dismissing peoples opinions reeks of rank hypocrisy considering the actions you are defending. In fact your entire post does. Your last paragraph is in itself the worst indictment anyone could every write about what you have posted, so I'm not going to say anything further about it. I'm grateful to teamliquid.net for introducing me to pro-starcraft and all the vods and all the rest. But you're right about one thing. If I don't like the kind of attitude displayed by FakeSteve and now yourself, the best option is for me to not post here. p.s. your post and attitude is far more childish than anything you accuse me of. | ||
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Manifesto7
Osaka27174 Posts
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Manifesto7
Osaka27174 Posts
From: Klaz Subject: bias and neutrality Date: 1/24/08 19:53 So being here and contributing to the site gives people the right to call others nobody? You don't feel that is a disgraceful thing to do? 1. Yes. 2. No. | ||
pachi
Melbourne5338 Posts
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
What dont you get? This isn't a debate. Veterans earn respect and you don't just continually rebut rebut rebut everything with these bullshit tales of whats fair. If you dont think this is a fair site, your free to leave. At some point though when not one, not two but three staff members are telling you you are wrong....maybe...just maybe....we aren't the fucking man trying to hold you down and you should shut up. Somehow you missed this thread. This is our foundation and our code. You should read it - multiple times if necessary. <a href="http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17911">http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=17911</a> Look at this kid http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=65590 Notice how people are minutemen to start helping him out? Thats what this community is. You wont always like criticism that is given but God you better learn to live with it. | ||
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Klaz
Ireland334 Posts
The hypocrisy really gets to me. How can you talk about taking criticism when you declare yourselves immune to it as "veterens"? One good thing somewhere else, doesn't negate a bad thing here. But I get it right the commandments.... life's not fair, TL is not fair etc. etc. etc. Isn't this also in your commandments - "Homophobic comments will get shoved way up your ass" some faggot 8 post troll means But the right of the vetrans over rides that of course. It's handy that doing whatever you want is built right into the commandments for "veterans," which i'm sure includes breaking the commandments as it suits you. Isn't treating people the way you want to be treated also in the commandments somewhere? I guess people around here like others going around calling them nobodies. But wait, they've got a higher post count so they can treat others how they themselves don't want to be treated. I rebut and rebut and rebut I guess. There's no point right because it's all about who has the higher post count and what not. What's right or fair etc. is irrelevant. Fine. But I'm not going to be bullied into not giving my opinion. Because I don't believe that anyone here is better than me in any way. I also do believe in things like integrity and decency. Feel free to crucify me for that. And that really is my last post on the subject. | ||
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