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Active: 30534 users

A book atheists may be interested in

Blogs > JesusCruxRH
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1 2 3 Next All
JesusCruxRH
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
New Zealand159 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-12-14 22:05:14
November 18 2007 22:48 GMT
#1


**
What have I done to deserve Your Son, sent to die for me? What can I give? I want to live, give me eyes to see.
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
November 18 2007 22:58 GMT
#2
Why would an athiest be interested in bull shit?
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
mikeymoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada7170 Posts
November 18 2007 22:59 GMT
#3
On November 19 2007 07:58 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Why would an athiest be interested in bull shit?


Here we go again...
o_x | Ow. | 1003 ESPORTS dollars | If you have any questions about bans please PM Kennigit
Snet *
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States3573 Posts
November 18 2007 23:02 GMT
#4
seems interesting, maybe i'll find an online version
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
November 18 2007 23:05 GMT
#5
I think it'd be better to wait for some professional reviews before diving straight into it. Looks like it could be a waste of time.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
suresh0t
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States295 Posts
November 18 2007 23:09 GMT
#6
I don't know how an investigative journalist should have any bearing on this subject. Being an atheist who finds god isn't exactly like a new thing, just as religious people all of the sudden becoming atheists isn't a rare thing. I'm not going to listen to a bitter ex-religious person on why there is no god in the world either.

I will definitely read it however. Just so I can see what arguments he cooks up and what not though .
JesusCruxRH
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
New Zealand159 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-11-18 23:17:28
November 18 2007 23:11 GMT
#7
On November 19 2007 07:58 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Why would an athiest be interested in bull shit?


OK let me rephrase, a 'religious' atheist may be interested in it - someone who wants to devote study to religion and atheism. Just as a theologist would be considered stupid not to read books written by those with points of views not agreeing with Christianity, to ignore books like these and only read Dawkins is extremely close-minded considering you're not looking at arguments that rebut his position.

Also the fact that you label it bullshit without even knowing the contents of his argument is prejudicial. Would you not find it astounding for a Christian who was introduced to Dawkins' book to instantly label it bullshit without even reading it first?
What have I done to deserve Your Son, sent to die for me? What can I give? I want to live, give me eyes to see.
Hittegods
Profile Joined April 2007
Stockholm4640 Posts
November 18 2007 23:33 GMT
#8
Intelligent design = fingerprints of god. Examples of said fingerprints -> god. From that summary it seemed like his starting point was that intelligent design was the basis of his "scientific" approach, which kinda makes the whole thing bogus.
This neo violence, pure self defiance
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
November 18 2007 23:42 GMT
#9
that was bullshit
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
suresh0t
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States295 Posts
November 19 2007 00:51 GMT
#10
On November 19 2007 08:11 JesusCruxRH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2007 07:58 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:
Why would an athiest be interested in bull shit?


OK let me rephrase, a 'religious' atheist may be interested in it - someone who wants to devote study to religion and atheism. Just as a theologist would be considered stupid not to read books written by those with points of views not agreeing with Christianity, to ignore books like these and only read Dawkins is extremely close-minded considering you're not looking at arguments that rebut his position.

Also the fact that you label it bullshit without even knowing the contents of his argument is prejudicial. Would you not find it astounding for a Christian who was introduced to Dawkins' book to instantly label it bullshit without even reading it first?



Agreed
TheFoReveRwaR
Profile Blog Joined May 2006
United States10657 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-11-19 01:41:50
November 19 2007 01:39 GMT
#11
RebelHeart. All I need to read is the first line of the prologue to know its bullshit.

"I shall suggest that the existence of God is a scientific hypothesis like any other...even if God’s existence is never proved with certainty one way or the other, available evidence and reasoning may yield an estimate of probability far from 50%." -Dawkins

You cannot suggest the existence of god as a scientific hypothesis because it is not proveable or observeable. Nor can you suggest that the non existance of god is a scientific hypothesis. So both authors are essentially engaging in intellectual masterbation. Not science.

The Scientific method:
1.Define the question
2.Gather information and resources (observe)
3.Form hypothesis
4.Perform experiment and collect data
5.Analyze data
6.nterpret data and draw conclusions that serve as a starting point for new hypothesis
7.Publish results
8.Retest (frequently done by other scientists)

The reason I know his book is bullshit is because the question being discussed only allow for steps 1,3, and 7. It's not science. It's philosophy. And the fact that he tries to make it seem like hes being scientific is BULL SHIT. Same applies to Dawkins. Now as for the part about him trying to show, through evidence, that intelligent design is a stronger theory than evolution, thats just hilarious.
Being healthy, it has been said, really consists of having the same disease as everybody else.
fanatacist
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
10319 Posts
November 19 2007 01:58 GMT
#12
On another note, I don't think anything but newfound faith can turn an atheist into a believer. That is why there is no scientific evidence of God - if there was, there would be no atheists in this world. Christians are believers because they have faith and don't care if God can be proven or not. If this book were to be true, it'd undermine the faith system and would crush the foundation of faith and religion. Basically, if this was anything worth considering, it'd have been HUGE news a while ago, because it affects billions of people around the world. Based on these two points, I myself believe that the very basis of this book is flawed and therefore don't care to read it, from your aforementioned summary.

Also, what the fuck is a "religious atheist"? It's not what you described, because no such term exists.
Peace~
Rev0lution
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States1805 Posts
November 19 2007 02:14 GMT
#13
Rebelheart thinks all atheist are cold hearted rapist, yeah thats right!
Perhaps Stalin and hitler and mao killed in the name of atheism oh yeah nice argument. You can say the same for terrorist! all terrorist kill because they wear turbans and have long beards!

what the fuck is a "religious atheist"?


My dealer is my best friend, and we don't even chill.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-11-19 03:58:14
November 19 2007 03:45 GMT
#14
Well, atheism is a religion. By religious atheist, he basically means a philosopher. Even though I'm an atheist/agnostic, I'm still interested in reading new theories and ideas even though I'm quite positive the Christian interpretation of God is incorrect.

I doubt an "investigatory journalist" with such a ridiculous background will provide anything of value. Many people have responded to ID "evidence" and it all has major flaws; the most obvious of which being that the explanatory filter makes the assumption that science is a stagnant practice. 10, 20, 50 years from now the realm of "divine impact" will be exponentially smaller than what they suggest today, as it would be if you made the same assumptions before Newton or Copernicus. There's many other key reasons EF is so bad but I won't get into it if no one else knows what it is.

It's a bit disturbing that he converted to Christianity on blind faith alone and he cites a work of fiction ("The Holy Blood & The Holy Grail") as his reason for being skeptical of religion in the first place. He kind of sounds like an idiot and will probably just point out crap like phi ratio any other stuff that's been mentioned before.


Why would an athiest be interested in bull shit?
That's a pretty ignorant thing to say. A lot of people have blind faith in atheism just like people do for religions. It's not that faith is required to be an atheism, however people are just lazy and stupid and don't actually look for answers to back up their convictions. Instead they see Dawkins on the Colbert Report and instantly buy into what he says instead of reading religious philosophy.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24648 Posts
November 19 2007 04:02 GMT
#15
On November 19 2007 12:45 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
Why would an athiest be interested in bull shit?
That's a pretty ignorant thing to say. A lot of people have blind faith in atheism just like people do for religions. It's not that faith is required to be an atheism, however people are just lazy and stupid and don't actually look for answers to back up their convictions. Instead they see Dawkins on the Colbert Report and instantly buy into what he says instead of reading religious philosophy.
To be fair, he wasn't clear why he thought it was bull shit. The OP said this might interest atheists in particular, but if that guy honestly believes this is BS, then there is no logical reasons why atheists would be interested in this. Of course I doubt he's actually justified in that conclusion though.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
November 19 2007 04:11 GMT
#16
On November 19 2007 13:02 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2007 12:45 Jibba wrote:
Why would an athiest be interested in bull shit?
That's a pretty ignorant thing to say. A lot of people have blind faith in atheism just like people do for religions. It's not that faith is required to be an atheism, however people are just lazy and stupid and don't actually look for answers to back up their convictions. Instead they see Dawkins on the Colbert Report and instantly buy into what he says instead of reading religious philosophy.
To be fair, he wasn't clear why he thought it was bull shit. The OP said this might interest atheists in particular, but if that guy honestly believes this is BS, then there is no logical reasons why atheists would be interested in this. Of course I doubt he's actually justified in that conclusion though.
True, I guess I just jumped to a conclusion because most atheists I talk to haven't actually thought about it for more than 5 minutes. They just figure a super natural being can't exist and stop thinking.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24648 Posts
November 19 2007 04:23 GMT
#17
On November 19 2007 13:11 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2007 13:02 micronesia wrote:
On November 19 2007 12:45 Jibba wrote:
Why would an athiest be interested in bull shit?
That's a pretty ignorant thing to say. A lot of people have blind faith in atheism just like people do for religions. It's not that faith is required to be an atheism, however people are just lazy and stupid and don't actually look for answers to back up their convictions. Instead they see Dawkins on the Colbert Report and instantly buy into what he says instead of reading religious philosophy.
To be fair, he wasn't clear why he thought it was bull shit. The OP said this might interest atheists in particular, but if that guy honestly believes this is BS, then there is no logical reasons why atheists would be interested in this. Of course I doubt he's actually justified in that conclusion though.
True, I guess I just jumped to a conclusion because most atheists I talk to haven't actually thought about it for more than 5 minutes. They just figure a super natural being can't exist and stop thinking.
Sounds awfully similar to the majority of people of faith. In some ways atheists and believers are different and yet so very the same.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
November 19 2007 04:33 GMT
#18
On November 19 2007 13:23 micronesia wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2007 13:11 Jibba wrote:
On November 19 2007 13:02 micronesia wrote:
On November 19 2007 12:45 Jibba wrote:
Why would an athiest be interested in bull shit?
That's a pretty ignorant thing to say. A lot of people have blind faith in atheism just like people do for religions. It's not that faith is required to be an atheism, however people are just lazy and stupid and don't actually look for answers to back up their convictions. Instead they see Dawkins on the Colbert Report and instantly buy into what he says instead of reading religious philosophy.
To be fair, he wasn't clear why he thought it was bull shit. The OP said this might interest atheists in particular, but if that guy honestly believes this is BS, then there is no logical reasons why atheists would be interested in this. Of course I doubt he's actually justified in that conclusion though.
True, I guess I just jumped to a conclusion because most atheists I talk to haven't actually thought about it for more than 5 minutes. They just figure a super natural being can't exist and stop thinking.
Sounds awfully similar to the majority of people of faith. In some ways atheists and believers are different and yet so very the same.
Just like the Dawkins South Park episode. :x Trey Parker and Matt Stone seem to get a lot of topics right. o.o Then again, it's also somewhat understandable that people don't want to devote their time to philosophy like book geeks like I do. Although if it's supposedly determining your eternal bliss/damnation, you should give it some thought.

ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
HeadBangaa
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States6512 Posts
November 19 2007 05:02 GMT
#19
Thanks for the link, Rebelheart. I'll certainly buy this book if the initial reviews are good.

Of course, a lot of people will be dismissive about it. Certainly, if you begin with the assumption of pure atheism, you can dismiss anything metaphysical.

Also, I can see why an atheist would potentially hold a grudge. If one were to rationally show God exists, or that intelligent design is the most reasonable paradigm, it would be annoying that people who "blindly guessed" would be correct.

But the Bible talks about this mentality, and the eventual confounding of men who don't put their faith in God (one of the many great truths of humanity contained in the Bible).
People who fail to distinguish Socratic Method from malicious trolling are sadly stupid and not worth a response.
Rev0lution
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States1805 Posts
November 19 2007 05:27 GMT
#20
if there was a bit of evidence for the existance of god i would start believing. But trust me if such god were to exist i would tell him fuck you for 9/11 and fuck you for the tsunami and fuck you for katrina.

@jibba. A-Theism is not a religion, I believe you got the definiton of atheism totally backwards.

There is, unfortunately, some disagreement about the definition of atheism. It is interesting to note that most of that disagreement comes from theists — atheists themselves tend to agree on what atheism means. Christians in particular dispute the definition used by atheists and insist that atheism means something very different.

The broader, and more common, understanding of atheism among atheists is quite simply "not believing in any gods." No claims or denials are made — an atheist is just a person who does not happen to be a theist. Sometimes this broader understanding is called "weak" or "implicit" atheism. Most good, complete dictionaries readily support this.

There also exists a narrower sort of atheism, sometimes called "strong" or "explicit" atheism.
With this type, the atheist explicitly denies the existence of any gods — making a strong claim which will deserve support at some point. Some atheists do this and others may do this with regards to certain specific gods but not with others. Thus, a person may lack belief in one god, but deny the existence of another god.

Below are links to a variety of references pages to help understand how atheism is defined and why atheists define it the way they do. From About.com


Also if you are a christian you are probably an atheist towards Allah or Thor or Poseidon or Zeus.

Just as if you are a muslim you are probably an atheist towards Jesus or Jehova or Thor or Zeus.

You don't deny any of these false gods, right? you simply analyze the facts and come to a conclusion that the probability of there being a god in this universe is probably as low as 0.000001% Atheist just go one god further than you, it's as simple as that. There is no religion or faith backing it up. Nobody goes around denying unicorns or leprechauns they just simply don't exist. Once you understand why you don't believe in unicorns then you will understand why an atheist doesn't believe in your god.

To expand on why the chance of there being a god. Hundreds of years ago before Darwin, we thought that the only explanation for life in this planet was that a creator was behind it all.

Darwin explained it, and scientist tested, researched and expanded on his theory to develop neo-darwinism. Evolution is a fact, tested rigorously by science and proven right every time.

Then in the 70's the big bang theory explained how the universe came to be. That also leaves god out of the equation. So you have a all powerful god who has nothing to do with the beginning of life or the origin of the universe and stars and planets and galaxies for that matter. You have a god who is BELIEVED to have started the universe and then left it alone.

there is absolutely no evidence for the christian god, just as there is no evidence for unicorns leprechauns, the god of thunder, the moon god, the sun god, the mother earth god, jehova or allah.

all these physical phenomenas explained by physics, biology, astronomy, geology and so on. There is no reason for anyone to believe in these false gods whatsoever. gb
My dealer is my best friend, and we don't even chill.
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