• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:17
CET 15:17
KST 23:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies1ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !10Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Micro Lags When Playing SC2? When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1 RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Anyone remember me from 2000s Bnet EAST server? How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle
Tourneys
[BSL21] LB QuarterFinals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] WB SEMIFINALS - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
The (Hidden) Drug Problem in…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1501 users

Progress report: Playing random against the AI

Blogs > Hildegard
Post a Reply
Hildegard
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
Germany348 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-01-04 12:04:51
December 24 2023 07:19 GMT
#1
[image loading]
bilder im netz

Another day without a Protoss game. I recently had one on the US server, but I switched to Europe. I lost access to my main battle.net account because the phone number doesn't exist any more. Telling the customer service that a World of Warcraft character is named after me, sadly, didn't help.

Back to StarCraft. Watching the game on normal speed doesn't look like Bronze level, but I lost a match today, so the current setting is fine for now. Any advice is appreciated. For example, the wall at the natural is often a wild guess and cost me the second game. I knew the wall wasn't tight, but I didn't find an easy way to fix it.

Random (Z) vs Random (Z) A.I. (Harder); slower speed; Goldenaura LE
Eco-cheese that worked. The AI stays very long on a single base, and so I could get ahead. Zergling/Baneling against Roach/Hydralisk isn't a great strategy, but it's easy to mass and controlling Zerglings with speed feels very fluid.

Random (T) vs Random (Z) A.I. (Harder); slower speed; Site Delta LE
Loss because I failed at building a wall at the natural and was too greedy. Moreover, I finished the Engineering Bay at the Zerg's natural and couldn't cancel it.

Random (T) vs Random (Z) A.I. (Harder); slower speed; Hecate LE
This time it was easy to win because the AI didn't rush me and I had enough units to defend the natural and the 3rd. One odd thing I can't really explain is me trying to stop the Engineering Bay to build at the enemy natural. This happened around 3:50. I clicked the SCV multiple times and also tried to stop it by selecting the Engineering Bay and looking for a command to stop building, but not destroying the building. Any hint or help is appreciated.

Some links about me:
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on YouTube Music
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on Facebook (as Franz Bieberkopf)
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on LinkedIn
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on X (Twitter)
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on Reddit
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on Instagram (barely used)
  • Tobias Clemens Häcker on TikTok (using only German so far)
You are welcome.


On a positive note, I am now confident enough to post about losses against the AI at slower speed on the probably most elitist gaming site on the World Wide Web. If anyone (especially new players) is interested, my current (not main account) battle.net ID is Adventurer#126352243. You are welcome to add me for practice games at slower speed.

[image loading]
bilder im netz



tl.net humour: https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form
Mutaller
Profile Blog Joined July 2013
United States1051 Posts
December 26 2023 20:17 GMT
#2
Nice way to enjoy the game. What are your goals in playing starcraft? Or is it purely to have fun playing playing 1v1 games against AI and people?
"To practice isn't for you to get better now in the present. Practice will never betray you and will always come back for you in the future." -Jaedong
Hildegard
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
Germany348 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-12-27 00:58:00
December 27 2023 00:55 GMT
#3
On December 27 2023 05:17 Mutaller wrote:
Nice way to enjoy the game. What are your goals in playing starcraft? Or is it purely to have fun playing playing 1v1 games against AI and people?


Thank you for your comment. My goals are probably to learn to fight fair, or better, to fight unfair in a fair game. As a Rogue in World of Warcraft, you are (better were) extremely squishy without using active abilities. You could control an enemy like no other class and with enough skill shoot down a second one, turning a 3v3 into a 1v3 for just long enough to win.

But that control meant that you couldn't dish out a lot of damage. It was possible to dish out enormous damage, but that cost the Rogue the control that defined the class. In short, the Rogue is a cheater, relying on teammates to do the damage. The "perfect" team composition for a Rogue was Rogue/Mage/Priest and that comp worked only at the absolute top level of players and there were patches during which that comp was too weak even in the hands of the best players in the world (Kalimist/Flyn/Hydra),

Starcraft is different. It's still possible to have a specialization, a unique style of play. For example, I prefer calling down supply instead of using mules as a Terran. It sounds like the worse option, but so far, it feels great because I have an SCV more during the time it would take to move to the spot, build the supply depot and move back. It also means I can stay longer at a base because fewer mules are called down, and the supply drop doesn't cost minerals.

Maybe that strategy stops working at higher levels, but right now, it feels great. I doubt that I will learn build orders in the future, but rather flesh out my own. That means that I still might end up in gold or platinum (I was diagnosed as a gross motorist when I was little), but I actually enjoy playing because it doesn't feel like I'm just copying whatever works for pros.

That is ultimately what I want - a serious challenge for my skills while using my own builds instead of only copying. I might still try a build Gumiho or Dark or Classic used in the GSL, but probably not one that Solar used. The reason is simple. I am a rogue player and in a fair fight (learning build orders) I lose. Especially in lower leagues, players tend to learn how to react to the most common builds. If they scout me, it's likely that they misread what strategy I am trying to do. That could give me the edge needed to win against faster players and their much better build orders.
tl.net humour: https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form
Hildegard
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
Germany348 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-12-27 12:40:12
December 27 2023 12:30 GMT
#4
Today I played some training versus missions. As Zerg I used a heavy econ strategy and won a lazy long game by a-moving Zerglings and Hydralisks. Protoss and random Protoss were fast, and two easy cannon rushes inside the main. The AI couldn't deal with it and in a combined five minutes I won two games.

However, Terran feels by far the hardest race to reach the skill-floor to win against the AI, and I failed horribly against Protoss because I didn't macro well and the AI kept killing bases. Until around 20 minutes, I was on equal footing with the AI. After that, I lost focus because trying to manage four bases as Terran is by far harder than with the other races.

Currently, I think the smartest way to play random is to make strategies based on the map and not the opponent's race. So far, Terran feels like the race with the most remarkable strategies. Protoss feels the closest to playing a Rogue in World of Warcraft. Zerg feels like the easiest race that can A-Move to victory. So I'm unsure which race I will end up in. Probably Terran because they have a huge range of strategies and cheeses as well as macro strategies. Or maybe I play all of them on different servers.

I will keep updating this thread. Next up is trying to cheese as Terran, but I'm unsure which cheese will work against the AI.
tl.net humour: https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form
Hildegard
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
Germany348 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-12-28 06:44:03
December 28 2023 06:03 GMT
#5
OK, I figured out how the Terran easy mode works. Economy and chesses are both pretty hard against Zerg. Stim, Marines, Marauders and later on some Medivacs are enough against Terran and Protoss. Zerg is by far the hardest match-up on the lowest skill level because it requires actually controlling the units and not just A-moving them and occasionally pressing T. Terran also has way more choices, it seems like.

I'm doing the AI versus three games currently and if I fail I play the same map and match-up at slower speed. For me, it's relatively easy to cope with normal speed once I figured out a working strategy. Remember that I am a diagnosed gross motorist and still recovering from a severe lumbago. That's an excuse, but I aim to reach Master level in 2024.

Protoss Air is something I haven't tested at all. Maybe a Tempest Rush. Oracles look interesting, but also challenging to control.
tl.net humour: https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form
Hildegard
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
Germany348 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-12-28 18:48:13
December 28 2023 18:47 GMT
#6
My first game against a human opponent. He had more than four times my APM, but got slaughtered by my first attack. To be fair, he invested massively in econ despite scouting that I was on one base. Additionally, he teched into Ghosts.

Random (T) vs Terran - Hard Lead - unranked
tl.net humour: https://www.kurtvonmeier.com/blog-1/2018/1/14/on-audio-alan-watts-and-g-spencer-brown-discuss-laws-of-form
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
12:00
Monday #66
WardiTV1358
TKL 286
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko453
TKL 286
BRAT_OK 96
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 2631
Sea 1975
Larva 813
Soma 796
Mini 605
Stork 584
Light 503
GuemChi 453
firebathero 412
ggaemo 327
[ Show more ]
Snow 320
hero 236
Rush 211
PianO 155
Sharp 145
Killer 129
Pusan 73
Mong 73
Aegong 60
Yoon 59
ToSsGirL 56
sorry 48
soO 40
Movie 34
Shinee 23
Terrorterran 21
910 19
yabsab 18
ajuk12(nOOB) 15
zelot 13
Bale 12
SilentControl 7
Sacsri 7
Oya187 0
Dota 2
singsing5204
XcaliburYe602
syndereN89
League of Legends
Reynor1
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2423
zeus1061
oskar139
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor195
Other Games
Happy425
Fuzer 404
crisheroes349
hiko218
RotterdaM214
Mew2King92
nookyyy 51
QueenE48
Chillindude19
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 9
lovetv 8
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 64
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV785
League of Legends
• Nemesis1463
• TFBlade90
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
2h 43m
WardiTV Invitational
1d 21h
Replay Cast
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

YSL S2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.