• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:47
CEST 06:47
KST 13:47
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow3[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy5GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding7Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage5Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
MaNa leaves Team Liquid Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy Quebec Clan still alive ? BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow JD's Ro24 review The Korean Terminology Thread so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [ASL21] Ro24 Group F
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition What's the deal with APM & what's its true value
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The China Politics Thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
How Streamers Inspire Gamers…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1986 users

SC2 Will Be A Completely New Game

Blogs > lugggy
Post a Reply
lugggy
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
450 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-01 14:50:05
October 01 2007 14:46 GMT
#1
This is only my theory, and I'm making it a blog entry for several reasons. #1 I don't want to start a bunch of flamewars over it, it's just my thoughts; #2 I would like to be as casual as I want and not feel obligated to answer every flame.

When I look at people talking about SC2 I constantly see people talking about it as though it is SCBW with some changes.

I think we have every reason to believe the matchups are going to basically be from scratch. Think back, first, to the matchups of SCBW:

PvP -- optional zeal (depending on map) to goon to reav or temp before or after expo
PvT -- wallin get a tank and mines or siege, and/or N rines and/or CC vs straight to goon, obs, etc.
PvZ -- photon expo or zealot rush vs 2nd hatch ling pump until you can tech, muta harass or lurk contain, hydras vs zeal with storm or whatever, optional sair...
TvT -- get a line of tanks as close to them as possible, get an expo up, keep defending and expoing, scan a lot and drop wherever vulnerable while expanding constantly
TvZ -- m&m pressure vs sunkens, lurk or muta comes to harass while zerg gets more bases. terran might expand earlier. details.
ZvZ -- lings and mutas. maybe get an expo in the case where neither should attack. all-in vs the expo, or vs the spire, etc. etc.

Whether my descriptions are outdated or just plain noob and wrong, that is not really the point. Take the right descriptions of each matchup. They are created by the way the units of each race, the tech trees and build times, all line up together, combined with the travel times provided on each map. The stats, the abilities available, all create these trees of possible events in which all strategies for the matchup lay.

People talk about an SC2 feature as though it is going to effect SCBW TvP, for instance. IMO this is just plain wrong because the matchups in SC2 are going to be as fresh and new as War3's were, as BW's were for SC Vanilla, etc. etc.

One reason is that SC2 has changed the armor and unit types system and the stats of almost every unit, not to mention how they move and fire, not to mention available upgrades and abilities and how powerful they actually are. Basic buildings have new build times, new health, and the maps will be new too.

Right now the game is unbalanced. Will they balance it in a way that creates similar, familiar tensions of SCBW's corresponding matchups? Obviously not. No more than War3's Human vs Orc was at all like War2. With so much change it is going to have to be a completely new matchup.

Another thing to point out is Blizz's reluctance to change things that effect their already-made Single Player. They acknowledged at some point that certain BW units should have been weaker, but they would not change them because they would have to modify the campaign, which they wouldn't or couldn't do. They are currently, designing a campaign around the units they have made. So they are going to be reluctant at some point to make certain changes. This doesn't mean we aren't going to get what we want but it means that there will be arbitrary, new things that they will want to have in place, making it impossible for SC2's matchups to be made to fit the corresponding SCBW matchups, even if they wanted to. If a certain level requires such and such, then they will keep it such and such, meaning the SC2 matchups will have to achieve balance another way--a new way, which means, if any such cases exist at all, SC2 will have new, unfamiliar matchups and not the ones from SCBW that people are basing their theorycrafting off of.

So for all our theorycraft purposes, if you agree with me, the matchups in SC2 could all be akin to SCBW's ZvZ, or TvZ, for all we know. It might play out that way. SC2's TvP might be more like SCBW's PvP. Who really knows? So worrying about the macro phase of TvP or PvZ, is partially moot because we don't know how important, if at all, that feature will be in any of the new matchups of SC2.

Take for instance, all this talk about MBS. MBS would not "ruin" every matchup of SCBW, only certain ones, for the current balance and maps we have come to accept as standard (these weren't created by Blizz in the slightest, either). For all we know, SC2 might be better with MBS, might not. Might not matter either way.

*****
A little effort please, this isnt a forum for just posting every link on the internet.
Fen
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Australia1848 Posts
October 01 2007 16:05 GMT
#2
I agree with this and direct my comments to core gameplay aspects when playing. It is stupid to talk about game balance before 90% of us have even played it.

That being said, while sc2 is a new game, it should still stick to the things that made starcraft 1 great and not be an entirely different game that just uses starcraft 1's reputation for sales. This is why I feel that the core gameplay aspects of starcraft 2 need to be discussed with relation to starcraft 1.
lugggy
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
450 Posts
October 01 2007 16:38 GMT
#3
I don't understand how you can say you agree with me. We can discuss SC2 in terms of SCBW no more than we could have discussed War3 in SCBW terms during its beta. I agree that we _should_ be shooting for a game that continues SCBW's play, but all signs point to no.
A little effort please, this isnt a forum for just posting every link on the internet.
il0seonpurpose
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Korea (South)5638 Posts
October 01 2007 19:33 GMT
#4
Yeah, doesn't look like if there's gonna be alot of similarities, MBS a big issue, the race matchups, but I also believe the creators of the game are not looking through the eyes of the (Korean) progaming but rather for the general popularity where people play it just for fun.


BTW so is there no more zealot speed upgrades because they rush in to attack?
cava
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
United States1035 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-01 20:18:08
October 01 2007 20:15 GMT
#5
MBS in my eyes is a natural progression in RTS games. Its like from warcraft 1 you could'nt select more than 1 unit at a time and in warcraft 2 you could. Its just the next step.
cava!
Waves
Profile Joined August 2007
Australia185 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-04 11:54:48
October 04 2007 11:53 GMT
#6
Just for your information, Blizzard's reluctance to change units because it would affect single-player too much is a problem specific to StarCraft: Brood War (and Vanilla). It won't apply for StarCraft 2, and it doesn't apply for WarCraft 3 either. Single player units are now independent from multiplayer balance changes.

Edit: And yes, you're right about StarCraft 2. The matchups will not play out like StarCraft 1. Blizzard has said as much, clearly and directly. They don't want the strategies to be the same. Only the "feel" of the game. It's a new game that will feel like StarCraft - if they manage to accomplish what they've set out to do.
Purind
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Canada3562 Posts
October 05 2007 04:54 GMT
#7
On October 02 2007 05:15 cava wrote:
MBS in my eyes is a natural progression in RTS games. Its like from warcraft 1 you could'nt select more than 1 unit at a time and in warcraft 2 you could. Its just the next step.


Just to nitpick, you could select 4 units at a time in WC1. I know that in Dune 2 you could only select 1 unit. Don't know enough about games to know if any other games only allowed 1 unit selection
Trucy Wright is hot
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL
19:00
RO32 Group B
Sterling vs Azhi_Dahaki
Napoleon vs Mazur
Jimin vs Nesh
spx vs Strudel
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft503
RuFF_SC2 193
NeuroSwarm 164
Nina 107
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 5951
Leta 172
ggaemo 69
scan(afreeca) 33
Noble 28
soO 22
Bale 19
Dota 2
ROOTCatZ288
League of Legends
JimRising 633
Counter-Strike
m0e_tv714
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0439
Mew2King88
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor86
Other Games
summit1g17734
kaitlyn39
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick607
Counter-Strike
PGL395
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 88
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1729
• Rush1200
• Stunt350
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
4h 13m
Wardi Open
5h 13m
Afreeca Starleague
5h 13m
Soma vs YSC
Sharp vs sSak
Monday Night Weeklies
11h 13m
OSC
19h 13m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 5h
Snow vs PianO
hero vs Rain
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 5h
GSL
1d 7h
Replay Cast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
Escore
4 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
5 days
IPSL
5 days
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
6 days
Ladder Legends
6 days
BSL
6 days
IPSL
6 days
JDConan vs TBD
Aegong vs rasowy
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W2
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.