• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:40
CEST 02:40
KST 09:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End6Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7
Community News
Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles2GSTL Returns in 2026!44Weekly Cups (Aug 3-9): Protoss get shut out7RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-2212Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) GSTL Returns in 2026! SC4ALL II: SC2 Player Announcement 6/8 - Maru Weekly Cups (August 10-16): SHIN doubles SC4ALL: II Talent Announcement!
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) 2026 GSTL Announcement PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) WardiTV Mondays 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 539 Thunder Dome Mutation # 538 Media Blackout Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory
Brood War
General
[Personal Project Share] Terran Defense v0.60 SC4ALL II: Brood War Player Announcement 3/4 - soO BW General Discussion Rush's Odyssey Controversy [ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro24 Group B [ASL22] Ro24 Group A Small VOD Thread 2.0 CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Fighting Spirit mining rates Any training maps people recommend? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Anyone here play Quakeworld back in the day? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Artificial Intelligence Thread The Letting Off Steam Thread US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently...
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Chinese Gen Z: Between Dream…
TrAiDoS
Cathedral Of CS And NY pizza a…
FuDDx
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
Hello guys!
LIN1s
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5188 users

SC2 Will Be A Completely New Game

Blogs > lugggy
Post a Reply
lugggy
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
450 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-01 14:50:05
October 01 2007 14:46 GMT
#1
This is only my theory, and I'm making it a blog entry for several reasons. #1 I don't want to start a bunch of flamewars over it, it's just my thoughts; #2 I would like to be as casual as I want and not feel obligated to answer every flame.

When I look at people talking about SC2 I constantly see people talking about it as though it is SCBW with some changes.

I think we have every reason to believe the matchups are going to basically be from scratch. Think back, first, to the matchups of SCBW:

PvP -- optional zeal (depending on map) to goon to reav or temp before or after expo
PvT -- wallin get a tank and mines or siege, and/or N rines and/or CC vs straight to goon, obs, etc.
PvZ -- photon expo or zealot rush vs 2nd hatch ling pump until you can tech, muta harass or lurk contain, hydras vs zeal with storm or whatever, optional sair...
TvT -- get a line of tanks as close to them as possible, get an expo up, keep defending and expoing, scan a lot and drop wherever vulnerable while expanding constantly
TvZ -- m&m pressure vs sunkens, lurk or muta comes to harass while zerg gets more bases. terran might expand earlier. details.
ZvZ -- lings and mutas. maybe get an expo in the case where neither should attack. all-in vs the expo, or vs the spire, etc. etc.

Whether my descriptions are outdated or just plain noob and wrong, that is not really the point. Take the right descriptions of each matchup. They are created by the way the units of each race, the tech trees and build times, all line up together, combined with the travel times provided on each map. The stats, the abilities available, all create these trees of possible events in which all strategies for the matchup lay.

People talk about an SC2 feature as though it is going to effect SCBW TvP, for instance. IMO this is just plain wrong because the matchups in SC2 are going to be as fresh and new as War3's were, as BW's were for SC Vanilla, etc. etc.

One reason is that SC2 has changed the armor and unit types system and the stats of almost every unit, not to mention how they move and fire, not to mention available upgrades and abilities and how powerful they actually are. Basic buildings have new build times, new health, and the maps will be new too.

Right now the game is unbalanced. Will they balance it in a way that creates similar, familiar tensions of SCBW's corresponding matchups? Obviously not. No more than War3's Human vs Orc was at all like War2. With so much change it is going to have to be a completely new matchup.

Another thing to point out is Blizz's reluctance to change things that effect their already-made Single Player. They acknowledged at some point that certain BW units should have been weaker, but they would not change them because they would have to modify the campaign, which they wouldn't or couldn't do. They are currently, designing a campaign around the units they have made. So they are going to be reluctant at some point to make certain changes. This doesn't mean we aren't going to get what we want but it means that there will be arbitrary, new things that they will want to have in place, making it impossible for SC2's matchups to be made to fit the corresponding SCBW matchups, even if they wanted to. If a certain level requires such and such, then they will keep it such and such, meaning the SC2 matchups will have to achieve balance another way--a new way, which means, if any such cases exist at all, SC2 will have new, unfamiliar matchups and not the ones from SCBW that people are basing their theorycrafting off of.

So for all our theorycraft purposes, if you agree with me, the matchups in SC2 could all be akin to SCBW's ZvZ, or TvZ, for all we know. It might play out that way. SC2's TvP might be more like SCBW's PvP. Who really knows? So worrying about the macro phase of TvP or PvZ, is partially moot because we don't know how important, if at all, that feature will be in any of the new matchups of SC2.

Take for instance, all this talk about MBS. MBS would not "ruin" every matchup of SCBW, only certain ones, for the current balance and maps we have come to accept as standard (these weren't created by Blizz in the slightest, either). For all we know, SC2 might be better with MBS, might not. Might not matter either way.

*****
A little effort please, this isnt a forum for just posting every link on the internet.
Fen
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Australia1848 Posts
October 01 2007 16:05 GMT
#2
I agree with this and direct my comments to core gameplay aspects when playing. It is stupid to talk about game balance before 90% of us have even played it.

That being said, while sc2 is a new game, it should still stick to the things that made starcraft 1 great and not be an entirely different game that just uses starcraft 1's reputation for sales. This is why I feel that the core gameplay aspects of starcraft 2 need to be discussed with relation to starcraft 1.
lugggy
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
450 Posts
October 01 2007 16:38 GMT
#3
I don't understand how you can say you agree with me. We can discuss SC2 in terms of SCBW no more than we could have discussed War3 in SCBW terms during its beta. I agree that we _should_ be shooting for a game that continues SCBW's play, but all signs point to no.
A little effort please, this isnt a forum for just posting every link on the internet.
il0seonpurpose
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Korea (South)5638 Posts
October 01 2007 19:33 GMT
#4
Yeah, doesn't look like if there's gonna be alot of similarities, MBS a big issue, the race matchups, but I also believe the creators of the game are not looking through the eyes of the (Korean) progaming but rather for the general popularity where people play it just for fun.


BTW so is there no more zealot speed upgrades because they rush in to attack?
cava
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
United States1035 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-01 20:18:08
October 01 2007 20:15 GMT
#5
MBS in my eyes is a natural progression in RTS games. Its like from warcraft 1 you could'nt select more than 1 unit at a time and in warcraft 2 you could. Its just the next step.
cava!
Waves
Profile Joined August 2007
Australia185 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-04 11:54:48
October 04 2007 11:53 GMT
#6
Just for your information, Blizzard's reluctance to change units because it would affect single-player too much is a problem specific to StarCraft: Brood War (and Vanilla). It won't apply for StarCraft 2, and it doesn't apply for WarCraft 3 either. Single player units are now independent from multiplayer balance changes.

Edit: And yes, you're right about StarCraft 2. The matchups will not play out like StarCraft 1. Blizzard has said as much, clearly and directly. They don't want the strategies to be the same. Only the "feel" of the game. It's a new game that will feel like StarCraft - if they manage to accomplish what they've set out to do.
Purind
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Canada3562 Posts
October 05 2007 04:54 GMT
#7
On October 02 2007 05:15 cava wrote:
MBS in my eyes is a natural progression in RTS games. Its like from warcraft 1 you could'nt select more than 1 unit at a time and in warcraft 2 you could. Its just the next step.


Just to nitpick, you could select 4 units at a time in WC1. I know that in Dune 2 you could only select 1 unit. Don't know enough about games to know if any other games only allowed 1 unit selection
Trucy Wright is hot
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
00:00
#95
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Temp0 36
ProTech22
SpeCial 0
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 3443
GuemChi 2302
MaD[AoV]68
ajuk12(nOOB) 15
Counter-Strike
summit1g8473
Fnx 1090
minikerr57
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox671
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi1792
shahzam633
Artosis499
C9.Mang0310
ViBE151
Maynarde73
Trikslyr54
Mew2King32
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1123
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta18
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21803
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 20m
Afreeca Starleague
9h 20m
BeSt vs Paralyze
Jaedong vs Speed
Kung Fu Cup
10h 20m
Replay Cast
23h 20m
The PondCast
1d 9h
KCM Race Survival
1d 9h
Replay Cast
1d 23h
Escore
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
[ Show More ]
PiG Sty Festival
3 days
Patches Events
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
The Patches Monday
5 days
GSL
6 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLAN 4
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 1
RSL Revival: Season 6
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
META DYMY #4
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W8
CSL Season 22: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.