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SC2 Will Be A Completely New Game

Blogs > lugggy
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lugggy
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
450 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-01 14:50:05
October 01 2007 14:46 GMT
#1
This is only my theory, and I'm making it a blog entry for several reasons. #1 I don't want to start a bunch of flamewars over it, it's just my thoughts; #2 I would like to be as casual as I want and not feel obligated to answer every flame.

When I look at people talking about SC2 I constantly see people talking about it as though it is SCBW with some changes.

I think we have every reason to believe the matchups are going to basically be from scratch. Think back, first, to the matchups of SCBW:

PvP -- optional zeal (depending on map) to goon to reav or temp before or after expo
PvT -- wallin get a tank and mines or siege, and/or N rines and/or CC vs straight to goon, obs, etc.
PvZ -- photon expo or zealot rush vs 2nd hatch ling pump until you can tech, muta harass or lurk contain, hydras vs zeal with storm or whatever, optional sair...
TvT -- get a line of tanks as close to them as possible, get an expo up, keep defending and expoing, scan a lot and drop wherever vulnerable while expanding constantly
TvZ -- m&m pressure vs sunkens, lurk or muta comes to harass while zerg gets more bases. terran might expand earlier. details.
ZvZ -- lings and mutas. maybe get an expo in the case where neither should attack. all-in vs the expo, or vs the spire, etc. etc.

Whether my descriptions are outdated or just plain noob and wrong, that is not really the point. Take the right descriptions of each matchup. They are created by the way the units of each race, the tech trees and build times, all line up together, combined with the travel times provided on each map. The stats, the abilities available, all create these trees of possible events in which all strategies for the matchup lay.

People talk about an SC2 feature as though it is going to effect SCBW TvP, for instance. IMO this is just plain wrong because the matchups in SC2 are going to be as fresh and new as War3's were, as BW's were for SC Vanilla, etc. etc.

One reason is that SC2 has changed the armor and unit types system and the stats of almost every unit, not to mention how they move and fire, not to mention available upgrades and abilities and how powerful they actually are. Basic buildings have new build times, new health, and the maps will be new too.

Right now the game is unbalanced. Will they balance it in a way that creates similar, familiar tensions of SCBW's corresponding matchups? Obviously not. No more than War3's Human vs Orc was at all like War2. With so much change it is going to have to be a completely new matchup.

Another thing to point out is Blizz's reluctance to change things that effect their already-made Single Player. They acknowledged at some point that certain BW units should have been weaker, but they would not change them because they would have to modify the campaign, which they wouldn't or couldn't do. They are currently, designing a campaign around the units they have made. So they are going to be reluctant at some point to make certain changes. This doesn't mean we aren't going to get what we want but it means that there will be arbitrary, new things that they will want to have in place, making it impossible for SC2's matchups to be made to fit the corresponding SCBW matchups, even if they wanted to. If a certain level requires such and such, then they will keep it such and such, meaning the SC2 matchups will have to achieve balance another way--a new way, which means, if any such cases exist at all, SC2 will have new, unfamiliar matchups and not the ones from SCBW that people are basing their theorycrafting off of.

So for all our theorycraft purposes, if you agree with me, the matchups in SC2 could all be akin to SCBW's ZvZ, or TvZ, for all we know. It might play out that way. SC2's TvP might be more like SCBW's PvP. Who really knows? So worrying about the macro phase of TvP or PvZ, is partially moot because we don't know how important, if at all, that feature will be in any of the new matchups of SC2.

Take for instance, all this talk about MBS. MBS would not "ruin" every matchup of SCBW, only certain ones, for the current balance and maps we have come to accept as standard (these weren't created by Blizz in the slightest, either). For all we know, SC2 might be better with MBS, might not. Might not matter either way.

*****
A little effort please, this isnt a forum for just posting every link on the internet.
Fen
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Australia1848 Posts
October 01 2007 16:05 GMT
#2
I agree with this and direct my comments to core gameplay aspects when playing. It is stupid to talk about game balance before 90% of us have even played it.

That being said, while sc2 is a new game, it should still stick to the things that made starcraft 1 great and not be an entirely different game that just uses starcraft 1's reputation for sales. This is why I feel that the core gameplay aspects of starcraft 2 need to be discussed with relation to starcraft 1.
lugggy
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
450 Posts
October 01 2007 16:38 GMT
#3
I don't understand how you can say you agree with me. We can discuss SC2 in terms of SCBW no more than we could have discussed War3 in SCBW terms during its beta. I agree that we _should_ be shooting for a game that continues SCBW's play, but all signs point to no.
A little effort please, this isnt a forum for just posting every link on the internet.
il0seonpurpose
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Korea (South)5638 Posts
October 01 2007 19:33 GMT
#4
Yeah, doesn't look like if there's gonna be alot of similarities, MBS a big issue, the race matchups, but I also believe the creators of the game are not looking through the eyes of the (Korean) progaming but rather for the general popularity where people play it just for fun.


BTW so is there no more zealot speed upgrades because they rush in to attack?
cava
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
United States1035 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-01 20:18:08
October 01 2007 20:15 GMT
#5
MBS in my eyes is a natural progression in RTS games. Its like from warcraft 1 you could'nt select more than 1 unit at a time and in warcraft 2 you could. Its just the next step.
cava!
Waves
Profile Joined August 2007
Australia185 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-10-04 11:54:48
October 04 2007 11:53 GMT
#6
Just for your information, Blizzard's reluctance to change units because it would affect single-player too much is a problem specific to StarCraft: Brood War (and Vanilla). It won't apply for StarCraft 2, and it doesn't apply for WarCraft 3 either. Single player units are now independent from multiplayer balance changes.

Edit: And yes, you're right about StarCraft 2. The matchups will not play out like StarCraft 1. Blizzard has said as much, clearly and directly. They don't want the strategies to be the same. Only the "feel" of the game. It's a new game that will feel like StarCraft - if they manage to accomplish what they've set out to do.
Purind
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Canada3562 Posts
October 05 2007 04:54 GMT
#7
On October 02 2007 05:15 cava wrote:
MBS in my eyes is a natural progression in RTS games. Its like from warcraft 1 you could'nt select more than 1 unit at a time and in warcraft 2 you could. Its just the next step.


Just to nitpick, you could select 4 units at a time in WC1. I know that in Dune 2 you could only select 1 unit. Don't know enough about games to know if any other games only allowed 1 unit selection
Trucy Wright is hot
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