• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:23
CEST 22:23
KST 05:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence3Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups3WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia7Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues
Tourneys
WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 General Discussion Playing StarCraft as 2 people on the same network
Tourneys
Is there English video for group selection for ASL [ASL20] Ro16 Group C [ASL20] Ro16 Group B [IPSL] ISPL Season 1 Winter Qualis and Info!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Borderlands 3
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1475 users

Mapmaking notes #3

Blogs > depressed1
Post a Reply
depressed1
Profile Blog Joined May 2021
51 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-04-22 03:28:16
April 19 2022 15:08 GMT
#1
My previous mapmaking notes #2 /#1

Mapmaking notes #3.

This time, I would like to talk about the Zerg race and more about The main. Yeah, exactly.
Where are we going to start today? I want to start talking first about the main base. The shape of the main base cannot be dedicated to only one race. Right? Every single map has a unique weakness, and the more strategies you know the better you'll be equipped (remember PartinG). I think everyone remembers Eternal Empire. Pretty cool map.
[image loading]
So, the main has a rectangular shape. And the ramp goes vertical. So not everyone knows but if it was a mech terran (all glory to the hypnotoad, i mean all glory to Gumiho) there was a chance that you would lose your game because your units are stuck. First of all the design of the ramp has the most brutal (not ideal) feature in the world. The standard wall off doesn't work here at all. Thors are thick and can't squeeze through the supply depot. What a bummer. I made a small representation on how to place factories (not ideal, but this is what we usually have and we need). The thing is that due to shape and the size sometimes Terran can mess up (because when you are playing macro game you can't place everything correctly, you know) one pixel left one pixel right, who cares. But eventually it starts working against you. Tanks and thors need a space to move out. But add-on is blocking your way. So, every single mapmaker always needs to check the space in between barracks and factories. If you don't mess up you usually use 10 barracks or something to fill in the main to be sure that everything is okay. Let's check Hardwire (once again). The main base is more canonical. The size and the shape are relatively standard (maybe just a little bit small). The ramp goes horizontally. Protoss and Terran will be fine here. Plenty of space.
[image loading]
The next thing is that we need to check Zerg privilege. We should not be too much a lawyer here but at the same time ensure a chance not to die because of hellion drop. I think everyone remembers Acid Plant as well.
[image loading]
So that map was really good to proxy starport against zerg and protoss. It is all because every single main has a blind spot (or maybe more than one). And at the beginning no one has enough vision and you need to read or guess opponents' build right. You should not do a very large main mainly because or blind spots. Because it is unnecessarily hard to control.
Let's go back to Hardwire. So usually you should see pictures like that.
[image loading]
The main and the natural base are not fully connected. We have the space in between for one creep tumor (only one). Since queens are so slow off the creep, we need to be sure to keep the distance in between bases like that. You need to remember that Zerg is a race which is in defense at the very start. And we know about Void rays bad boys and 2-1-1. If we have a relatively big main or big distance in between bases it is not good. Because Zerg is immobile and unable to spread the creep (because he needs to spend his mana on injections). It is quite a big problem. Because very small main means we are unable to land and set up terran production correctly. But here is something more. Blind spot in a combination with dead air space (check my previous article) means nydus worm. Zerg will abuse this strategy until the end.
So we all know about the latest patch. Queens are unable to transfuse off the creep. Lambo had an idea (he suggested) that maybe we need to nerf the queen speed off the creep more. So I want to explain from a mapmaker point of view what we have here and what we need. Zerg is obliged to divide the queens into two groups or you are going to suck the laser beam (long and hard). Usually you need to place a group somewhere in between main-natural and the other right next to the third. If you don't have enough creep it's going to be a hard process to follow and defend from 2-1-1 and Void rays. And we are already told what we want when we want to have a nice main base. And usually Zerg doesn't have enough creep at this moment. And it becomes problematic to have sustainable relationships. But at the same time not giving the option to transfuse off the creep makes me worry that this is useless. Because with the amplification of the power of Nydus worm we have a potential situation for much stronger strategies than before. For Terran players this means we can use more Nydus worms and lurkers. For Protoss players this means we can use early aggression against them (queen's-ravagers-lings). So at this point no one was right with iteration.

But can we assume that we have something different?
The best solution would be not to touch it at all (revert back queens and nydus). These days many people are complaining that they are broken (can't lie to you but yes). But the balance is very fragile to touch only one unit. It is a multi-faceted unit. And they are only a problem at the highest level. It is much easier to focus fire on them or kill them with zealots or disruptors at lower level while to control them and transfuse. But it doesn't mean that we need to give up. I believe that Zerg is the strongest race overall. And instead of touching queens we should think about the creep spread and banelings.



****
depressed_marauder (yt: DepressingStarcraft) done and gone.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25622 Posts
April 21 2022 17:52 GMT
#2
Interesting read man
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 37m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ZombieGrub232
SteadfastSC 190
NeuroSwarm 134
UpATreeSC 115
JuggernautJason63
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 872
Dewaltoss 183
Mind 62
Movie 23
sSak 20
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
Shine 9
yabsab 8
Dota 2
Fuzer 219
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
ScreaM1734
pashabiceps523
Stewie2K224
Foxcn124
Super Smash Bros
PPMD55
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu566
Other Games
Grubby3576
FrodaN1278
mouzStarbuck321
PiGStarcraft187
C9.Mang0134
Trikslyr70
rGuardiaN40
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 173
• davetesta23
• Psz 12
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 15
• FirePhoenix11
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3145
• masondota22183
• Ler91
Other Games
• imaqtpie1029
• Scarra1003
• Shiphtur243
Upcoming Events
OSC
3h 37m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
13h 37m
Afreeca Starleague
13h 37m
Light vs Speed
Larva vs Soma
2v2
14h 37m
PiGosaur Monday
1d 3h
LiuLi Cup
1d 14h
RSL Revival
2 days
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
4 days
BSL Team Wars
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Online Event
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Team Wars
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.