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On August 18 2007 08:51 HiTexas wrote:Show nested quote +If you have anxiety, expose yourself to the scary shit. If you have depression, start by taking a shower in the morning, eating breakfast, get some rutines in.
But don't start eating anti-depressants because you know what?
They don't cure shit, they just (supposedely) releave you of your symptoms, although I haven't gotten relieved of shit. Personal experience? Some random advice? It wont help as you cannot cure real depressions and anxities with some showers and good mood. Side effects of antidepressants are wide-known, antidepressants are needed and can be very valuable. You take Zoloft, Cipramil, Paxil, Effexor but dont have a clinical depression? How does this work? This sounds too odd. I understand ur scepticism but demonising care w/ medical support is wrong. A dry mouth, sex. inactivity etc sucks but justifies the use of antidepressants. Just wait until some practical courses at a psychiatry (e.g.) and you will realize it. psychotherapist might be the wrong job for you btw? OH YES. Was hoping for an answer, sorry if i offended you with a second (third now) post. I hope you will understand. : )
Both personal experience and random advice. Basically I have learned that psychologial "issues" or "disease" as doctors want to call it, is generally best treated by learning new skills and to connect with other people, NOT by eating medication.
About medication, that's obviously by personal experience.
I HAVE taken those medicines but I only eat Paxil (Seroxat) now.
You ask the doctor who first gave med the meds man..
The thing is that it's easy to develop a psychological dependance on these medications since you soon start to think that you won't be able to cope without them.
I get all scared and shit when trying to quit and have to face with real emotion again, and no friggin' doctor has ever helped me with that.
There are alot of people who can't stop eating these medicins because of this.
Dude, I know so much about these medications you don't have a clue. Besides psychiatry is sometimes a big joke to me. It's history is all about abusing patients and trying out questionable substances on them...so seriously...
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On August 18 2007 09:55 karelen wrote:
awesome, an anti anti-depressents rant while simultaneously sharing your experience about using said pills for eight years..
do as i say not as i do
I agree with HiTexas that you should maybe look into other professions.
So? I don't see how it contradicts?
Can a drug addict be hooked to something and hate it at the same time? Get real.
You should maybe expand your horizon, and you are possibly young and don't have a clue about real life, so I'm not sure what your comments mean really.
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On August 18 2007 12:07 nemY wrote:
Hi.
I am the first American to post in your blog post. Very nice!
Good for you =)
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On August 18 2007 10:10 Pika Chu wrote:Hey Jens. I'm studying sociology and psychology in university. 3rd year now. There is a big problem with ap (anti-psychotic) and ad (anti-depressive) medication. Unfortunately anti-depressive are over prescripted and most of the times it actually have other effect than the wished one. The lack of cooperation betwen psychiartists and psychologists/terapists gives bad results. Many of the problems where psychiatrists give medication, that will have bad effects on the person, can be solved by going to the psychologist and doing therapy. Psychiatrists and most of family doctors which send you to psychiatrist if you have "disorders" are doing alot of bad. Sure it's cheaper to give medication instead of months or years of therapy but all they can do is in the end make the human being incapable of helping himself. They even prescribe medication for diagnostics like social phobia, twitch and even for low level anxiety. That's just lol, they are practically destroying the human's body capacity of regeneration. Those problems could be solved with ease by doing therapy. There are many types of therapy and it's 100% that one of them will work on a certain individual. Most of the doctors nowadays discredit the ideea of clinical depression and it has been shown in numerous ocasions that it can be treated (the therapy practically starts your body's auto-regeneration system) without the use of medication or a slight use of it. 3 years ago i had big problems with concentration. I just couldn't study. I visited the family doctor which sent me to psychiatrist which wanted to give me some pills. I didn't take any of them. I visited a psychologist for 1 week but that didn't help me at all so i visited another psychologist and after not even 3 meetings i began to councious aknowledge my problems which led to a quick progress and finnaly the problem was solved. Why do you wanna be a therapist? you want to help yourself more than others? be sure you can't help others untill you solve your own problems  . Btw, in romania atleast to get to be a therapist you have to finish psychology and make 5 years of practice before you get your degree. That effort doesn't worth unless you really like it and you really can help others.
Dude, I couldn't agree with you more!
I agree with all that you're saying, and there are also doctors out there who think that this prescription of anti-depressants is all wrong.
There is a serotonin hypothesis which hasn't even been proven and they just stuff medications down peoples throat.
One may argue that it's your own choice to eat them, BUT doctors can be really pushy about it.
And I also agree that medication doesn't solve shit. This has also been proven in experiments, that therapy gives longer lasting effect than medication that at it's best relieves the "patient" of some of his/hers problems.
One thing you have to realize is that medical companies have HUGE interests in the psychopharmacology market and want people to eat their medicines, not because of altruistic motives but because of money only.
Psychiatry has through the history been a big joke, serioulsy. Please convince me that these modern anti-depressants won't give you brain damage or whatever...I'm scared of that shit...since no one knows.
I want to help others, I'm good with people, making them feel secure and I enjoy talking and helping others with psychological issues.
Psychologists in Sweden automatically get a therapists degree after finished eximination.
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On August 18 2007 12:44 decafchicken wrote:
Why do you still take them if they dont do anything for you? I recently took ap psychology and was going to say some stuff that you probably already know, routines + regular excercise to increase norepinephrine levels, your serotonin levels were probably already fine if the medication doesnt seem to have any effect on you. What exactly was wrong that you got prescribed them in the first place? Zoloft/prozac came out in the 90s so you've been on it since that shit like first came out.
Because I'm sort of hooked on them. I'm like scared of feeling again since these medications numb out all feelings and I guess it's some sort of psychological dependence.
Yea I know! As I said I was put on meds at first on pretty odd reasons. I was tired of school etc, and doctors shouldn't prescribe you meds in that case, but it was early and my doctor was really positive about SSRI and told me that I would feel great on them.
I was young and naive...
I basically talked to a therapist, we just talked and shit was going good. But she wanted me to meet a doctor and I told her that I would never ever eat any medicines like that, cuz I thought only people with a mental illness ate that shit.
However she somehow convinced me...and it lefts me a bitter old man, with a feeling of being fooled.
My original doctor also told me that he had a bad consciense about giving me meds all the time.
Yea, I've been on Zoloft since it came out basically. My doctor told me about this new great SSRI anti-depressant called Zoloft and how great it was and I was like "...cool, maybe I'll try it" but he never informed me of all the shit that came along with it.
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On August 18 2007 16:59 Raithed wrote:
We all make mistakes and fail in life, this is life, I am so sorry you had to go through all this. You genuinely seem like a very nice guy. School can be tough, and I know what you mean by that. You struggle and struggle and struggle; sometimes, it will get you places -- other times, it won't. The feeling is horrendous. This leads you to depression/anxiety huh? I don't know, I have manic depression, and if little things happen in my life, I have panic attacks, and usually that goes into anxiety attacks. Take care of yourself, if you want to talk about anything, feel free. I know your situation.
Are you on like...lithium?
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On August 19 2007 07:10 JensOfSweden wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2007 12:44 decafchicken wrote:
Why do you still take them if they dont do anything for you? I recently took ap psychology and was going to say some stuff that you probably already know, routines + regular excercise to increase norepinephrine levels, your serotonin levels were probably already fine if the medication doesnt seem to have any effect on you. What exactly was wrong that you got prescribed them in the first place? Zoloft/prozac came out in the 90s so you've been on it since that shit like first came out. Because I'm sort of hooked on them. I'm like scared of feeling again since these medications numb out all feelings and I guess it's some sort of psychological dependence. Yea I know! As I said I was put on meds at first on pretty odd reasons. I was tired of school etc, and doctors shouldn't prescribe you meds in that case, but it was early and my doctor was really positive about SSRI and told me that I would feel great on them. I was young and naive... I basically talked to a therapist, we just talked and shit was going good. But she wanted me to meet a doctor and I told her that I would never ever eat any medicines like that, cuz I thought only people with a mental illness ate that shit. However she somehow convinced me...and it lefts me a bitter old man, with a feeling of being fooled. My original doctor also told me that he had a bad consciense about giving me meds all the time. Yea, I've been on Zoloft since it came out basically. My doctor told me about this new great SSRI anti-depressant called Zoloft and how great it was and I was like "...cool, maybe I'll try it" but he never informed me of all the shit that came along with it.
gogo sue him
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On August 19 2007 01:31 Physician wrote:Show nested quote +JensOfSweden wrote:...and since I've always wanted to help people with issues I figured this would be right for me. [....] I don't feel like hanging out with random jerks for some reason. Judging only by some of your other comments, your reactions to criticism and some of your prejudice - I would have to agree with HiTexas' comment, Social work and psychotherapy really might just not be your thing. Just take it as advice rather than a criticism. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Nevertheless I would like to add to your blog a few of my own thoughts and maybe add to its general value. One can treat this blog as a sign of our times or an anecdotal case to support what I too have seen repeated in our youth today ad naseum. I have to agree with you, JensofSweden, that trying to treat social problems, misguided values and motivation issues with medications and doctors is really the wrong thing to do, and sometimes causes more harm than good. I also agree that today many normal human behavior variants are being labeled as diseases, when they are not, and that in the mental health field misdiagnoses are far too prevalent, to avoid using the words rampant and irresponsible. It goes to the extent that I frankly believe some disorders are outright human constructions that have no pathology to them. One of the reasons is of course the snake oil industry and their exploitation of market pressures but another equally important reason is health care workers, physicians included, with little training in psychiatry that are allowed to prescribe left and right medications they have little or no understanding. You are also right in suspecting SSRI's lack of efficacy. There is increasing evidence that these medications are no better than placebo for depression; for other "disorders", like anxiety related syndromes, OCD, pain sydromes, fibromyalgia, migraine etc.. the evidence is even more scare.. and yet these agents are being used left and right for a myriad of conditions with little science supporting their use. There is also very strong evidence that to use of SSRI's in developing minds, i.e. children & adolescents, the adverse effects outweigh any "supposed" benefit they might bring, making their use in children very questionable. There are however other depression medications aside from the SSRI's. Some of the older depression medication have been proven to work so it is not wise to assume its all the same shit and that nothing works. I guess we are still learning but unfortunately they are releasing some new meds without good science behind them. The advantage I guess is that it makes dam easy to test their efficacy and actions when you make the whole world your test lab - which is not the most ethical thing to do.
Um, HiTexas critized me for no apparent reason, calling me "emo"? So what do you mean sir Entropy?
You know nothing about me except for me being against medication in these cases and you tell me being a psychotherapist might not be for me? What EXACTLY do you base your comments on? Just curious.
I have to say Entropy that I definately agree with you. Some "illnesses" definately are constructed by man, perhaps because medical companies want to create a market for them. It makes me sick.
You seem to have great insight into current day psychology, are you a doctor?
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On August 19 2007 07:15 decafchicken wrote:Show nested quote +On August 19 2007 07:10 JensOfSweden wrote:On August 18 2007 12:44 decafchicken wrote:
Why do you still take them if they dont do anything for you? I recently took ap psychology and was going to say some stuff that you probably already know, routines + regular excercise to increase norepinephrine levels, your serotonin levels were probably already fine if the medication doesnt seem to have any effect on you. What exactly was wrong that you got prescribed them in the first place? Zoloft/prozac came out in the 90s so you've been on it since that shit like first came out. Because I'm sort of hooked on them. I'm like scared of feeling again since these medications numb out all feelings and I guess it's some sort of psychological dependence. Yea I know! As I said I was put on meds at first on pretty odd reasons. I was tired of school etc, and doctors shouldn't prescribe you meds in that case, but it was early and my doctor was really positive about SSRI and told me that I would feel great on them. I was young and naive... I basically talked to a therapist, we just talked and shit was going good. But she wanted me to meet a doctor and I told her that I would never ever eat any medicines like that, cuz I thought only people with a mental illness ate that shit. However she somehow convinced me...and it lefts me a bitter old man, with a feeling of being fooled. My original doctor also told me that he had a bad consciense about giving me meds all the time. Yea, I've been on Zoloft since it came out basically. My doctor told me about this new great SSRI anti-depressant called Zoloft and how great it was and I was like "...cool, maybe I'll try it" but he never informed me of all the shit that came along with it. gogo sue him
I was about to but he switched jobs.
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On August 19 2007 07:11 JensOfSweden wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2007 16:59 Raithed wrote:
We all make mistakes and fail in life, this is life, I am so sorry you had to go through all this. You genuinely seem like a very nice guy. School can be tough, and I know what you mean by that. You struggle and struggle and struggle; sometimes, it will get you places -- other times, it won't. The feeling is horrendous. This leads you to depression/anxiety huh? I don't know, I have manic depression, and if little things happen in my life, I have panic attacks, and usually that goes into anxiety attacks. Take care of yourself, if you want to talk about anything, feel free. I know your situation. Are you on like...lithium?
I'm not on anything, never have and never will. I even ditched psychiatry help/advisory.
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On August 19 2007 06:55 JensOfSweden wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2007 09:55 karelen wrote:
awesome, an anti anti-depressents rant while simultaneously sharing your experience about using said pills for eight years..
do as i say not as i do
I agree with HiTexas that you should maybe look into other professions. So? I don't see how it contradicts? Can a drug addict be hooked to something and hate it at the same time? Get real. You should maybe expand your horizon, and you are possibly young and don't have a clue about real life, so I'm not sure what your comments mean really.
im actually slightly older than you for the record, not that it matters.
so you're addicted to the pills? didnt really shine through in your original post. please elaborate.
im an layman in the field of psychology and no doubt you know more than me. i was merely pointing out what i perceived as an obvious contradiction. you have been medicated for four years and yet you have used so many diferent medicines? eventhough you feel you dont need them really? its hard for me to understand unless theres more to the story.
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
"Um, HiTexas critized me for no apparent reason, calling me "emo"? So what do you mean sir Entropy?"
I quoted only the part in HiTexas reply that I agreed with, specifically "psychotherapist might be the wrong job for you btw?". As for the rest of his comment it did not merit or spark any further thought or comment on my part.
"what EXACTLY do you base your comments on?"
Your blog and your replies - which I already pointed out - and in particular one comment were I quoted you, which highlights all my doubts regarding to your career choices.
"basically I have learned that psychological "issues" or "disease" as doctors want to call it, is generally best treated by learning new skills and to connect with other people, NOT by eating medication."
That is of course if you can learn new skills and if you can connect with other people. You can throw both of those out the window if your undergoing an acute schizophrenic bout. Forming such generalizations is akin to prejudice and it will only blind you.
There some psychiatric illnesses that are well defined with real proven pathology behind them. There are also some psychiatric medications that can and should be used i.e. they do have a roll and their benefits outweigh their risks.
"Please convince me that these modern anti-depressants won't give you brain damage or whatever...I'm scared of that shit...since no one knows."
Well that is one thing we do know today - and precisely because they have been used so extensively on millions of patients. By now we know pretty well all the adverse effects and side effects - fortunately most of them are reversible - look 'em up, there is plenty. Tardive dyskinesia can end up being permanent, fortunately its rare for SSRI's. Now if you were a fetus from a mother taking SSRI's during her pregnancy - then all bets are off, we don't know enough yet.
"You seem to have great insight into current day psychology, are you a doctor?"
If you know that physician is sir Entropy, then you know too that my field of work is medicine, i.e. that I am a doc. What you may not know is my specific training, that being Internal Medicine i.e. a clinician. I have worked as hospitalist, in urgent care and in the primary care setting. Unfortunately part of my training included 3 years of psychology and 1 of psychiatry - a lot of it was a waste of time.
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hey jens, wanna talk out on msn about this stuff?
gimme a pm with your msn if so
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karelen, yea I guess you could say that I'm addicted to the pills. It's a kind of vicious circle because I don't have the guts to stop taking them since I've been on them for 8 years now and quitting the meds also bring out alot of nasty withdrawal effects.
Basically it's some sort of false comfort in eating medication, since I've found they don't really cure anything and it's very noticeable when you're quitting them. Their effect simply doesn't last usually.
I have tried different meds, much because none of them have really helped me in a good way.
Entropy, yea I figured you're a doc which is good because it's interesting to hear your views on this subject.
Of course medication is good for psychosis and the likes and suicidal depression, but I'm not so sure they should be used as much for anxiety and depression, since these "illnesses" (constructed by psychiatrists) are actually pretty normal stuff and most people will feel anxiety in some life situations and/or feel depressed at times.
I think medication, like pika chu said, somewhat takes away your ability to recover yourself, since you just become numbed and modern anti-depressants hide symptoms but doesn't cure them.
It often just seems to me like a big scam, with medicine companies like Glaxo-SmithKline, Pfizer and so on just wanting to make alot of money and persuading doctors that these medications are so good.
Hell, they aren't even much better than placebo, and I'm not sure you could even call them significantly more effective.
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I've read books that were shorter than the comments on this blog entry.
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Lol Cpt Obvious thx for the input 
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EPT
