• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:02
CEST 18:02
KST 01:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy9[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple2BSL Season 236Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 544 Double Trouble The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion NaDa's Body BSL Season 23 screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL22] Ro16 Group D [ASL22] Ro8 Day 1 [IPSL] IPSL is Back With Winter 26-27!
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Diablo IV Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Gaming Intensity, Problemati…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7832 users

APM Training.

Blogs > Tadzio00
Post a Reply
Tadzio
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
3340 Posts
July 10 2007 03:21 GMT
#1
In the Broodwar forums there was a thread posted recently called Training Exercise for Starcraft. Since my slow hands bug me I decided it would be a good idea to try out the exercises BlueIris suggested. The hope is that it'll eventually speed me up in useful ways even if it's pointless spam to start off with. I'm gonna try and fit in 5 games a day and report the results here. Here's today's report:

All my games were ZvP on Luna. I chose ZvP because I'm Z, and I think the protoss comp's zealot push is arguably the most difficult to deal with out of the comp's arsenal of attacks. I chose Luna because it's boring and familiar and I'm pretty sure the comps don't get confused on Luna.

The first 3 games I opened with 3 hatch lurkerling, expanded twice to gas expos, then switched to ultraling. The last 2 games I opened with 4 hatch hydra (4th hatch at a min-only), and then teched to lurkers and expo'd to 2 gas expos... both 4 hatch games ended before my gas expos were up and running.

I noticed in the 4 hatch hydra games, where I had the min only, I spent my minerals very quickly, and needed to tech lurker to spend all my gas. The gas probably could've been used for faster hive tech instead. Its something I should try.

In the 3 hatch games almost all my unspent resources were minerals, and the extra minerals remained high even after putting down 2-3 extra hatcheries in my main for pumping lings.

Both 4 hatch hydra games I met the macro goals, though I had one less mineral line and 2 less gas than in the 3 hatch lurker games. I may need to place a few more hatcheries to make the macro goals in the 3 hatch lurker games.

As far as making the APM goal, I'm very far away from that for the time being. In fact, my "APM Max" only broke the 300 mark for a few moments in just one of my games... and it was 100% hotkey spam while I was containing the Comp and waiting for more larva. This may be an indication that in order to meet this goal I'll need to hotkey spam constantly, and push myself to fit actions inbetween the lightning fast spam.

Other notes: Game 1 the comp Toss FE'd... Comps are so bad at that. The rest of the games were comp's standard 4 gate zealot. I was never in any danger of losing a game. That's probably the result of not enough useless spam to meet the exercise's goals.

Goals = 300 apm, less than 600 resources.

Comp Spam Practice
Game01: 130 APM; 1349 unspent resources; 14:42 time.
Game02: 113 APM; 1380 unspent resources; 18:36 time.
Game03: 153 APM; 3590 unspent resources; 16:46 time.
Game04: 153 APM; 355 unspent resources; 14:39 time.
Game05: 149 APM; 237 unspent resources; 13:19 time.

Game01-05 Averages
140 APM; 1382 unspent resources; 15:36 time.

*****
Daveed
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States236 Posts
July 10 2007 03:55 GMT
#2
So you did improve as the day went on. Nice!
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
July 10 2007 04:08 GMT
#3
go there

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=50034

search for

BW AI Project
Homepage
Download
Authors : Entropy and Bajadulce
Version : 3.1
Description : players have always complained about the original AI. Therefore, Entropy (aka Physician on most SC forums) tried to enhance it using some scripts of his own. He was helped in this task by Bajadulce and it appears that the AI is now quite competitive... give it a try !

get it.

since you'll be playing vs pc that AI it's way better then blizzard AI
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Locked
Profile Joined September 2004
United States4182 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-07-10 04:53:47
July 10 2007 04:49 GMT
#4
On July 10 2007 13:08 xM(Z wrote:
go there

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=50034

search for

BW AI Project
Homepage
Download
Authors : Entropy and Bajadulce
Version : 3.1
Description : players have always complained about the original AI. Therefore, Entropy (aka Physician on most SC forums) tried to enhance it using some scripts of his own. He was helped in this task by Bajadulce and it appears that the AI is now quite competitive... give it a try !

get it.

since you'll be playing vs pc that AI it's way better then blizzard AI


the point of the exercise isn't for a challenging opponent though... then he could just play real people

the goal is to raise his APM and overall speed which is easier to focus on with worse opponents, hence using the computers
in fact tadzio i'd argue that your practice session was a failure because you did not meet your goal of 300 APM and under 600 resources (continually not just at the end of the game)
it's mostly irrelevant that you beat the computer, don't worry if the computer beats you with zealot rushes but rather that you're making your APM goals, that is after all how i felt blueiris explained it


anyhow that thread also interested me and made me wonder if i should go about artificially boosting my APM with more spam like that, idk though in my experience i've reached my highest APMs when i was challenged the most (playing someone much better than me)
UMS map pack http://teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=50442
Tadzio
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
3340 Posts
July 10 2007 05:06 GMT
#5
I agree that I didn't meet my goals. The last two games I think I met my macro goals... but I didn't have a huge economy like I did the first three games so it's hard to tell. Anyway, the reason I'm doing this is so I can meet the goals. I don't think I'd bother with it, and I certainly wouldn't blog about it, if I could already do it.

I'm impressed that your APM climbs when you're most challenged, Locked. The more difficult my opponent, the less I do.
Cpt Obvious
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Germany3073 Posts
July 10 2007 05:17 GMT
#6
nice :o

Maybe we should play a few games someday.
Nobody ever reads signatures of people like me, do they?
Equinox_kr
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States7395 Posts
July 10 2007 11:47 GMT
#7
I actually tried BlueIris's technique and I saw immediate results (although staying <300 minerals was a big problem).

It jumped from 140s to about 190s after several games; I have so much trouble with Pylon timing that it's ridiculous If I didn't have this problem I'd be in the mid-250s by now T_T
^-^
Garnet
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Vietnam9055 Posts
July 10 2007 19:59 GMT
#8
they should make the BW-AI works without a cd ..
Prometheus4096
Profile Joined May 2007
30 Posts
July 11 2007 01:38 GMT
#9
This is stupid.


You are going to make it a habit to press 5 times every time you could just as well press once. Of course, then your APM will be higher even if you aren't spamming consciously. But you are still spamming. The result will be that you won't know if you improved or not.

And it also means that the time spend on every spamming action cannot be spend on real actions. So 150 APM with spam is probably worse than 100 APM without spamming.


Of course in the end playing 5 games a day while macroing like hell will make your real APM go up.
FirstBorn
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Romania3955 Posts
July 11 2007 02:52 GMT
#10
APM is not really that important. It will increase with the skill. Just go play real people, you'll learn faster that way. But having low apm does not make you a noob. Look a Oldy,he's top10 Iccup and I probably have twice his apm, but not even a quarter of his skill and experience.
SonuvBob: Yes, the majority of TL is college-aged, and thus clearly stupid.
Zanno
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1484 Posts
July 17 2007 02:47 GMT
#11
would you recommend trying this vs the brood war ai project?
aaaaa
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 17h 58m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
UpATreeSC 237
SteadfastSC 140
CosmosSc2 71
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 36138
Shuttle 2486
Light 969
BeSt 623
Mini 461
Rush 354
Stork 328
Snow 234
hero 162
Dewaltoss 115
[ Show more ]
Shine 71
Hyun 41
sorry 31
PianO 29
ToSsGirL 26
HiyA 25
Sharp 24
Sexy 23
Rock 20
Aegong 19
Terrorterran 18
NotJumperer 18
Hm[arnc] 17
Dota 2
qojqva3708
Counter-Strike
fl0m597
x6flipin413
ceh9336
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes434
Other Games
hiko758
B2W.Neo551
Liquid`VortiX207
ArmadaUGS143
Mew2King89
QueenE58
Rex57
Trikslyr27
Chillindude2
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 354
StarCraft 2
TaKeTV 92
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 9
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile142
• StrangeGG 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 6702
• WagamamaTV550
League of Legends
• Nemesis3617
• TFBlade1240
Other Games
• Shiphtur148
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
17h 58m
Replay Cast
1d 7h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
GSL
3 days
Yamato Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Soma vs Jaedong
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.