• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:21
CEST 12:21
KST 19:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles0[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China7Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL63Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?13FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps SC uni coach streams logging into betting site Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2024! Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 648 users

Fixed Odds Betting Terminals and Loot boxes

Blogs > Jockmcplop
Post a Reply
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9612 Posts
February 28 2020 13:38 GMT
#1
OK a bit of background:

I'm a gambling addict. In the last 10 years I have probably lost >£10,000 in bookmakers here in the UK on machines called fixed odds betting terminals (FOBTs).
Recently a conservative minister resigned in order to force the government to regulate the machines (which helped me quit gambling). This seems like an extreme measure over some machines in bookie's shops, no?

Well it was justified. FOBTs were called the 'crack cocaine of gambling'. They are insanely addictive, as every single part of the experience of using one is designed to get you hooked.

Here's an article:
+ Show Spoiler +

MPs rebelled, a minister resigned and the UK government was forced to change tack. No, this is not Brexit. It’s fixed-odds betting terminals(FOBTs), the incredibly addictive machines that are often found in betting shops.

The government had promised to reduce the maximum stake that people playing FOBTs would be limited to just £2 per play from April 2019. This is the figure recommended by the Gambling Commission regulator – a dramatic reduction in price from the current £100 limit. But the chancellor announced in his budget that this reduction would be pushed back to October 2019. This would have allowed bookmakers to make an estimated £900m extra from FOBTsin the meantime and the government a lot more in tax revenues.

The move prompted sports minister Tracey Crouch to resign from the front bench of British politics and a growing number of MPs from across the political divide to call the government out for its decision to delay. It has bowed to the pressure and will once again reduce the maximum stake to £2 from April 2019.

The fact is, FOBTs are so addictive that they have been labelled the “crack cocaine” of gambling methods, encouraging gamblers to play quickly and continuously.

http://theconversation.com/fixed-odds-betting-machines-are-devastatingly-addictive-why-its-right-to-cut-maximum-stakes-106266



What's this got to do with loot boxes?

Having used these machines for 10 years I am very used to the specific way n which the software works, from the user's POV. There is a specific routine to spinning the roulette wheel, for example.
You make your bet, then press go. There is then a short pause which is slightly different in length on each spin. The spin animation is different in different software, but lasts 4-8 seconds.
There are two possible outcomes, win or lose. If you win, you get some flashing lights and a happy sound. If you lose, you are taken quickly back to the 'place bets' interface.
Either way, within seconds you are back at the screen where you can continue betting.

Here's a video:
+ Show Spoiler +


And here's how FIFA loot box opening has changed over the years. Notice the implementation of the same techniques over time:
+ Show Spoiler +


Now, it would be foolish to think that there isn't a science behind each stage of this routine. The main developer of FOBT software is called Scientific Games for God's sake.

Now, loot boxes and in game purchases, from my experience, use EXACTLY the same routine to get people addicted to the rush of buying the loot box itself. It is NOT the reward or search for the reward that the designer wants you addicted to, it is the animation, the sound, and most importantly, the TENSION of waiting to see what your money has got you that they want you addicted to.

Bear in mind I'm using the only experience I have of loot boxes to draw the comparison (FIFA, Battlefield and UFC 3).

So what's the problem here? Well there isn't too much of one when a game is aimed at adults, as adults can give consent and are able to understand the consequences of getting addicted to something.
The problem is when games are not given an 18+ rating (like FIFA for example) and contain these exact mechanics. They are designed to get kids addicted to a specific routine which can end up costing huge amounts of money and have serious, long lasting psychological consequences.

I know loot boxes are already hated by most people, but I don't know how much people understand about what it is that they are aiming at, and how they work.



*****
RIP Meatloaf <3
Zambrah
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States7289 Posts
February 28 2020 16:21 GMT
#2
Loot boxes are manipulative casino scumbaggery and should be very regulated.
Incremental change is the Democrat version of Trickle Down economics.
linestein
Profile Blog Joined June 2018
United States210 Posts
February 28 2020 23:11 GMT
#3
So basically you're spending your dough at an arcade instead of a real-life casino? 10,000£ isn't that much over 10 years!
"You can wish to be rich, you can wish to be tall. You can wish away the haters, you just gimme a call" ---Will Smith & DJ Khaled "Friend Like Me (End Title)"
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-02-29 13:28:58
February 29 2020 13:28 GMT
#4
Why would it matter if it was a real life casino or not? The emotions are all the same.

£10,000 is enough for a decent second hand car or a smaller new car. Enough for 2 years of luxury dining. It's enough for a 6 month holiday. £10,000 is £10,000, people have killed for far less.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25045 Posts
March 01 2020 00:21 GMT
#5
Congrats on getting over your addiction man.

The space is appallingly badly regulated in terms of ‘real’ gambling, ads for gambling are everywhere. Was talking to some football journalists after a show and they said that even ostensibly independent podcast have gambling money somewhere.

Given I listen to literally like 9 sports podcasts religiously it’s thus not surprising that the one topic that is rarely ever tackled is gambling and it’s influence.

Loot boxes in games, eugh. It’s really depressing, predatory bollocks and I hate them. They’re turning a magical part of my childhood, exploring the vidya, and enjoy the game, the experiences and getting proficient, playing with friends to ‘spin the wheel so you have the thing’. Which is the most depressingly capitalistic thing I can think of.

I’ll try my best to shepherd minibat away from them but it’s tough when all the other kids are doing it.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
StaleTosis
Profile Joined February 2020
13 Posts
March 01 2020 05:01 GMT
#6
Great post OP. Games are addictive as hell these days, by design. I'm trying to stop gaming myself!
roguecast
Profile Joined September 2019
7 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-05 15:05:57
March 05 2020 14:57 GMT
#7
very interesting also how games like the recent Autochess are so incredibly addictive whilst being things that people after a while say out loud "Why am I wasting my life on this?"

there was a game Day9 started playing on his youtube the other day, i looked up the steam reviews and literally every one is saying "Do not touch this game - it's the most addictive game of the decade" . game is called Factorio

very interesting how addiction works with game design. very interesting

some things are really able to trigger our sense of "play", "curiosity", and whatever other emotions are engaged and go crazy stimulating the brain

in japan the noise of the game centers is fucking insane. i don't know if it's like that in other parts of the world. i wonder too how that sound is effective (gambling is massive over here too).

heres a decent video of the noise



i'm guessing it's to keep everyone on edge and stimmed up like they're in a busy frantic place, maybe it plays on what you said about tension
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 39m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Creator 91
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 704
Soma 430
Pusan 410
Stork 299
Sharp 138
ZerO 133
sorry 121
sSak 96
yabsab 45
Soulkey 41
[ Show more ]
Larva 40
Free 38
Aegong 34
zelot 28
Mind 26
JulyZerg 13
IntoTheRainbow 10
ivOry 3
Dota 2
XcaliburYe518
XaKoH 493
syndereN1
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss693
x6flipin362
allub96
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King250
Other Games
ceh9675
Pyrionflax306
crisheroes277
SortOf162
rGuardiaN36
ZerO(Twitch)15
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick28834
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2264
League of Legends
• HappyZerGling104
Other Games
• WagamamaTV150
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
39m
Replay Cast
13h 39m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
23h 39m
WardiTV European League
1d 5h
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
1d 13h
The PondCast
1d 23h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
FEL
5 days
FEL
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Season 20
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.