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A Historian's Rant about Netflix' 'Roman Empire' - Page 2

Blogs > TheOneAboveU
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DeepElemBlues
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States5079 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-01 22:58:54
March 01 2020 22:58 GMT
#21
The people who make these things regard their audience and themselves with contempt.

We can't have accurate costumes, they need to look like Lord of the Rings / Game of Thrones or people won't like what they're seeing and turn it off!

We can't bring in any ambiguities because this stuff happened thousands of years ago and we don't have and never will have the full story, people get frustrated and bored if they have to think and aren't spoon-fed a simplistic dramatic narrative! They don't like it and then they watch something else! So just make shit up. As long as it's dramatic and reminds people of LotR/GoT, we're good.

Battle scenes gotta look like the Avengers as much as possible (considering the subject matter) because that's what people like and if we filmed a more accurate battle scene, people probably wouldn't like it and would stop watching!

It's a deep insecurity about their ability to tell an entertaining tale without following the basic conventions set by Hollywood and places like HBO, and a condescending view of their audience that they don't want accuracy, they want another dramatic action extravaganza of the kind they've already seen dozens or hundreds of times in the last 20 years.
no place i'd rather be than the satellite of love
TheOneAboveU
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany3367 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-03-02 10:14:14
March 02 2020 10:13 GMT
#22
On March 02 2020 04:09 JoinTheRain wrote:
Tbh, I actually really admire Cicero's writing style and mostly his philosophical works on ethics, like Tusculan disputations and On duty. Yet his character seems to be wildly controversial, some claim he was the embodiment of Roman civil virtue, others - that he has been a spineless coward that goes with anyone in power. I guess the truth lies somewhere in the middle. If you can point me to some works on his life and deeds from which I can form a really educated opinion on him, I would appreciate it immensely.
I know that his character, whatever it actually was, does in no way diminish the quality of his writing yet I am curious.

I can say the same about Lucius Seneca actually. Yes, Cicero and Seneca. And Gaius Pollio, Julius Caesar's lieutenant. I hope I am not overwhelming. If I am, just ignore me, I won't mind.
As it is now, I will surely take your suggestion and read Adrian Goldsworthy's 'Augustus, after I finish The Roman revolution.
And I can only finish with saying how awesome and kind and polite you are to be taking the time and helping me develop my knowledge. Thank you!


Ah, you like the great writers? They are quite fascinating - it's always kind of hard to imagine these great writers and philosophers also as generals and ruthless politicans. They lived in complicated times and had to navigate them accordingly - no one as close to power as Seneca and Cicero would have survived for so long had they not blood on their hands or made plenty of enemies. As you say, this doesn't diminish their literary achievements, but rather adds another layer onto them.

Anyways, here are some books cited by other authors in their works about these persons that are more about their politics and lifes than about their writing:

- Griffin, M.: Seneca. A Philosopher in Politics (1976)
- Wilson, Emily R.: The Greatest Empire: A Life of Seneca (2014)

- Fuhrmann, Mannfred: Cicero and the Roman Republic (1992) (Available here: https://archive.org/details/ciceroromanrepub0000fuhr)
- Stockton, David: Cicero: A Political Biography (1971)

As far as I'm aware at the moment, no grand monographs exist about Pollio, unfortunately, so a few articles and mentions of him in other works about his timeframe are probably the best way of getting more about him - Syme, as you will know, talks about him a bit.

- Llewelyn Morgan: The Autopsy of C. Asinius Pollio. In: The Journal of Roman Studies 90 (2000), p. 51–69.

I hope you find something interesting! And you're very welcome - I love history and it's always a pleasure to share that with someone else.

On March 02 2020 07:58 DeepElemBlues wrote:
The people who make these things regard their audience and themselves with contempt.

We can't have accurate costumes, they need to look like Lord of the Rings / Game of Thrones or people won't like what they're seeing and turn it off!

We can't bring in any ambiguities because this stuff happened thousands of years ago and we don't have and never will have the full story, people get frustrated and bored if they have to think and aren't spoon-fed a simplistic dramatic narrative! They don't like it and then they watch something else! So just make shit up. As long as it's dramatic and reminds people of LotR/GoT, we're good.

Battle scenes gotta look like the Avengers as much as possible (considering the subject matter) because that's what people like and if we filmed a more accurate battle scene, people probably wouldn't like it and would stop watching!

It's a deep insecurity about their ability to tell an entertaining tale without following the basic conventions set by Hollywood and places like HBO, and a condescending view of their audience that they don't want accuracy, they want another dramatic action extravaganza of the kind they've already seen dozens or hundreds of times in the last 20 years.


Very well said, and pretty much my thoughts as well. It's like they're afraid of doing things differently than the usual formula, even if the medium they're working in - a documentary - should have very different rules.
Moderatoralias TripleM | @TL_TripleM | Big Dark Energy!
shredicusmaximus
Profile Joined February 2021
1 Post
February 07 2021 15:14 GMT
#23
I'm currently reading Mary Beard's 'SPQR' (my very first book on ancient history) and then will be reading Adrian Goldsworthy's 'Antony and Cleopatra' and Plutarch's 'The Age of Caesar'. Would you say these are good sources and/or starting places for someone who is only just starting to learn about ancient history (but already obsessed)? Thanks in advance!

I should also note that Netflix's 'Roman Empire' was my very first exposure to Ancient History and I must admit I loved it, but am now worried it may have misinformed me on a lot.
DrakusMaximus
Profile Joined July 2021
1 Post
July 26 2021 04:57 GMT
#24
Ok since you only watched 15 minutes couldn't help but be curious how much else is wrong.

Did his sister Drusilla really die pregnant with his child?
Was incest that taboo in ancient Rome (I thought among the royals it was tolerated)
Did he really marry a pregnant woman intending the OTHER man's son to be the heir???
And what was the difficulty with an heir thing about anyhow? Couldn't he have banged dozens of roman women and
gotten one of them pregnant?

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