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France12762 Posts
Life is about time.
Feeling like I'm wasting my time frightens me.
The last two weeks have been full of anxiety and moments of depression, it feels like I could not appreciate any fucking situation that would otherwise give me pleasure. I managed to sleep relatively well so I kept going to work but one day I had to quit because I could not handle the anxiety symptoms anymore.
I could barely play games, or anything that would need my left hand. I still feel numbness in my left wrist. My mind isn't as sharp as it used to be, probably by a mix of exhaustion and depressive state of mind... Although this depressive state of mind is going away and I managed to calm the fuck down.
What helped me today was that I realised I needed to get rid of my toxicity by text even if it would make my entourage sad, pissed, or whatever, because I was an emotional mess, full of nervousness.
Plus talking to people would allow me to laugh a bit with them, because I was actively trying not to be too pessimistic / sad / whatever, because I knew that would make them run away.
So I baited. And I didn't even care anymore if I got a response or not, because of statistics: some people would answer so I'd get a shot of dopamine and be able to be myself again a bit at least by text (I'm still a bit nervous in real life but it gets better day by day), which would gradually feel myself capable of doing things again.
That's the scary side of anxiety: when it gets so bad you can't do basic things anymore, when your nervous system is so excited you have too much physical symptoms which only strengthens the anxiety. Since I decided in 2019 to reduce my alcohol comsuption because I was tired of using it as a crutch, I didn't realise I actually had to use it to see better and earlier that I was going in a fucking wall: this PhD (it's with an enterprise, french thing, so it didn't start yet, it'll probably be accepted in the next week or so) would be fucking depressing me.
I had already been depressed numerous times, thankfully I managed to get out of it after high school during early college and giving myself a better life, but as soon as I lost a tight group of friends to make me come to class, have fun and stuff, I let myself sink. Starcraft was there so I could go to class in the afternoon avoiding morning classes, have an headache every fucking day, wondering in class if I'm understanding what is said, but instead of overthinking that shit, just browse TL (trolling / getting banned / overhyping terrans just because I play the same race and find it the most difficult? :D) / do other shit while the class was held.
I made friends (well, I was in a group of friends) with both balanced / healthy mind people and darker / tormented people during these college days. I appreciated the healthy mind people who gave me balance, but I was more attracted to the tormented people because I felt like I was understanding their pain and wanted to help them. I had people balancing me enough to avoid going full dark mode, but in 2017 I let it consume me. Oh boy was it good. Oh boy was it bad. Oh boy was it self destructive, toxic and dangerous. Refreshing, painful, an emotional lift like I never felt before. I pushed my body and sanity to its limits, I explored both the best and worst sides of myself. Since I was drinking almost every night and going out, I was able to get rid of my agoraphobia (not in the sense of being afraid of crowds, this side of agoraphobia I manage well, but being scared of large empty spaces) and see Paris by night, without going full anxious / anguish, take pictures and stuff. That side was good.
But I want to do it full healthy now, without having to resort on a crutch. I managed to better the symptoms in 2019 with running, walking and stuff, but the day by day work was killing my soul, because even though this PhD in AI makes sense career wise, the enterprise is "franco-française" with some old people forgetting how they even got trapped there in this hole, without hope for the future, and younger people than me (I "wasted" years to be in a better college / took one year off to rest, stuff like that) who don't have as much emotional experience as I have. I can share a bit more with them but it's hard within work, and this enterprise makes me feel old as fuck and depressed although I'm still "only" 27.
And the university the PhD will take place in where I'll have to grind for 3 years (it's 3 in France)? You probably guessed it by then if you are still reading: it's my former university. The one in which I suffered the most in 2017, in which I loved the most in 2017, in which I grew the most in 2017, in which I cried the most in 2017, in which I survived 2017. I don't even know how I managed to graduate here in 2018 after the 2017 I lived, but I did.
However, it's time to let go of the past and forgive myself. This PhD is a fucking horrendous idea given all of this, so I won't purchase that path.
Tomorrow I'll inform that I don't want to do it and feel at peace again. Now I'm feeling alive again.
Until the next crisis. But I'll survive it again, or at least, I won't give up on myself. Never totally did, never will. As small as the flame becomes in me, I won't ever extinguish it myself.
Don't give up on yourself. Never. Pick your fights as well as you can, pick the right battles for you to fight. Keep investing in yourself although sometimes you'll need a quick fix. But when you take this quick fix, don't forget why you did it. It's when you forget it that all hope is lost and you'll simply be the spectator of your life, instead of the actor.
Take care of yourself and others, and don't be too harsh on yourself. The habits make you live. The habits make you grow. Take the time to pick them carefully so you'll have the least regrets. Or don't if you don't feel the strength. Whatever makes you sleep at night.
I won't live another person dream. I know what I'll be doing instead. See you in another blog entry I guess.
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Good choice. PhDs are terrible. Everyone I've talked to including my wife hated it and were miserable. At most a PhD in AI probably would've gotten you obscene money at google or facebook or whatever, but you don't really need one to make a damn good living with just an undergrad degree.
http://100rsns.blogspot.com/
its also hilarious, one guy asked on quora should he quit his CS phd, and i was the only one who said yes, everyone else was encouraging him to do it. everything i've seen shows that its not worth it.
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@OT: What you describe is a typical problem of our educational system: By the time people are part of school/university they are still mentally occupied with themselves. I think I've learned a new thing about me every year in my 20s and am now more mentally stable and ripe. On the flipside the time I need to learn something new is now longer than it was a year ago and it was longer a year ago than the year before.
I mentally wasn't ready/interested when I visited university and half-assed it, but I'm not sure I'd do a much better job nowadays for very different reasons.
In the end if you feel like making the PhD would be bad for you and that you aren't really interested then definitely don't do it, even if anxiety doesn't get you it's hard to invest the time and concentration necessary into something that fundamentally doesn't interest you.
On April 25 2019 05:20 fishjie wrote:Good choice. PhDs are terrible. Everyone I've talked to including my wife hated it and were miserable. At most a PhD in AI probably would've gotten you obscene money at google or facebook or whatever, but you don't really need one to make a damn good living with just an undergrad degree. http://100rsns.blogspot.com/its also hilarious, one guy asked on quora should he quit his CS phd, and i was the only one who said yes, everyone else was encouraging him to do it. everything i've seen shows that its not worth it.
Depends I'd say, a PhD gives you a stable, high income, a fair amount of freedom and the possibility to half-ass a lot of things you don't feel like doing. Having the PhD is definitely great. Obtaining it is obviously hard, underpaid and arduous, even if you bring the necessary level of intelligence and work ethics.
Can you get filthy rich without it? Sure. Can you get a stable job with a good income without giving 120%? Sure. Can you choose your job with more freedom with a PhD? Definitely.
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On April 25 2019 22:01 Archeon wrote:@OT: What you describe is a typical problem of our educational system: By the time people are part of school/university they are still mentally occupied with themselves. I think I've learned a new thing about me every year in my 20s and am now more mentally stable and ripe. On the flipside the time I need to learn something new is now longer than it was a year ago and it was longer a year ago than the year before. I mentally wasn't ready/interested when I visited university and half-assed it, but I'm not sure I'd do a much better job nowadays for very different reasons. In the end if you feel like making the PhD would be bad for you and that you aren't really interested then definitely don't do it, even if anxiety doesn't get you it's hard to invest the time and concentration necessary into something that fundamentally doesn't interest you. Show nested quote +On April 25 2019 05:20 fishjie wrote:Good choice. PhDs are terrible. Everyone I've talked to including my wife hated it and were miserable. At most a PhD in AI probably would've gotten you obscene money at google or facebook or whatever, but you don't really need one to make a damn good living with just an undergrad degree. http://100rsns.blogspot.com/its also hilarious, one guy asked on quora should he quit his CS phd, and i was the only one who said yes, everyone else was encouraging him to do it. everything i've seen shows that its not worth it. Depends I'd say, a PhD gives you a stable, high income, a fair amount of freedom and the possibility to half-ass a lot of things you don't feel like doing. Having the PhD is definitely great. Obtaining it is obviously hard, underpaid and arduous, even if you bring the necessary level of intelligence and work ethics. Can you get filthy rich without it? Sure. Can you get a stable job with a good income without giving 120%? Sure. Can you choose your job with more freedom with a PhD? Definitely.
From what I've heard PhDs arent really valued that much in the European job market. In terms of salary you sometimes earn slightly more with a PhD than with a masters degree but its not worth the 4 years you spend to get it.
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On April 25 2019 22:01 Archeon wrote:
Depends I'd say, a PhD gives you a stable, high income, a fair amount of freedom and the possibility to half-ass a lot of things you don't feel like doing.
just lol
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Depends I'd say, a PhD gives you a stable, high income, a fair amount of freedom
lol? check out the blog i linked. The vast majorities of PHDs do not land you an industry job, let alone a high paying one. AI is an exception because machine learning is the new hotness. but most are worthless. talk to people who actually have PHDs. many of them no longer do work relevant in that field. my dad for example, had an oceanagraphy phd and after being paid pennies at his postdoc in princeton, got a job as a computer programmer and made a shit ton more. my friend who has a chemistry phd struggled to find industry work and just teaches community college now, because he loves chemistry. countless more examples.
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France12762 Posts
Well my PhD would be in AI / deep learning so it would land a job even after, because the AI hype is gonna last at least 5-10 years from now on.
Money wise I would probably make more money in my lifetime if I’d get out of it and land a job now in AI (I have MS.c in CS/AI which is +5 years after high school in france, PhD would be +8)
But I value money as a mean to an end ie. More quality time or investing in things I like such as esport.
I was about to quit but I talked with my advisor in the enterprise and now I’m doubting again.
I’ll probably take some rest of like 1week+ and candidate elsewhere in order to see what is my current value and have more options, before deciding.
Anyways I’ll consult a mental health specialist because my anxiety is preventing me to perform as well as I could so it’ll be a good investment.
About interest, the subject is interesting but it’s a pain in the ass to go to work at office hours since I think better at night and would rather sleep at 2am than 11pm, and it’s irritating to have to show a persona instead of my real self at work.
Would be the same in every job though I guess...
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On April 26 2019 08:06 Poopi wrote:
About interest, the subject is interesting but it’s a pain in the ass to go to work at office hours since I think better at night and would rather sleep at 2am than 11pm, and it’s irritating to have to show a persona instead of my real self at work.
Would be the same in every job though I guess...
If you get a PhD and stay in academia, you definitely get a lot more flexibility in this regard.
As was pointed out though, some countries pay academics terribly. And it's hard to succeed in academia (I hear 10% of PhDs stay in it). Also you probably get more $$$ regardless if it's machine learning because yeah, lots of industries blowing up in that direction.
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France12762 Posts
I don’t want to get in academia though.
And I think you can have a bit more flexibility regarding this in small sized companies if you are being clear about it.
What I read in fishjie blog is kinda true as well regarding highly ambitious people being attracted to academia but academia being shit for them because the ladder is so short and the available positions so scarce.
As some friends advised I’ll take some due rest to let my body and mind recover a bit.
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funny, because I am thinking more and more about doing a PhD, i'm soon 36 in engineering school under a work-study contract also in France, I work in the automotive industry as an embedded developer. I am eager to get this blasted diploma so I can start earning good money working in a field I really like but somehow I want it to last longer. Now the problem and I know myself, a company is a company, it needs to make a profit. What is a project? A project is a client, a product, deadlines, communication, fucking Agile and so on. This shit is really killing the fun and I despise it. If I didn't, I wouldn't be studying at my age and got this shit done a long time ago. I already feel what's coming and it won't get long before I enter an infinite loop of boredom. Now not everything is bad about working for an IT company or being a subcontractor that can be kicked out of a project at any given time if it benefits a budget, I see people enjoying it everyday (somehow) But I also think that the best jobs you can get in IT is R&D by far... And for that, PhD is a really cool thing to have. I have read your feelings and clearly you need a break, but if you go find a job, not sure you will feel any better after a couple of years  A PhD in computer science can give you many opportunities abroad why not looking into that? I think 3 years is nothing and you have what, 27? I did work for 10 years having no diploma before going back to school at 33 lol, and man I am gonna stay in school as looooooooooooooooooooooooong as I can.
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Very good read, you definitely produce quality text. Have you thought about psychotherapy? Some people are not high on the idea of it, but what I've learned from my own anxiety, never underestimate a chance to talk 100 % freely about your issues, giving it all out without any embellishment. Discussing your issues with friends or family can never reach that 100% level of openness.
Not trying to comment about the severity of your state of mind. I simply think that almost every person would benefit from a therapy session or two, no matter how well they're doing out in the world.
And yeah, as a Finn with master's degree and working in a private sector...No need for PhD 
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A PhD is no magic wand, but it can land you a few interviews that otherwise you have to work hard to get. Of course what you do with them is still up to your own efforts. And if you feel up to living in a different culture, here in Asia a PhD is probably more valued than in the West.
Also in my experience even a CS PhD does not always mean better proficiency at AI coding than a Master's or even a star undergrad. However a PhD will generally be more autonomous when given a broad problem to solve, thus requiring less effort from the supervisor. So in practice, for well-defined tasks I would generally prefer regular engineers (more cost effective and usually younger, meaning more energy to do stuff), while for new technical problems it will be good to have a PhD or two leading the charge. In my current job I always try to build a mix of 1 PhD + 1 experienced engineer + 2-3 junior engineers (more willing and cheaper to do boring shit like data pre-processing and other nameless tasks) and scale it up if the problem is large. Quite often the senior engineer ends up taking the leadership role, leaving the PhD space to do their stuff.
Of course the bigger companies can hire full PhD teams doing all kinds of odd jobs (happened to me), but it is neither efficient nor enjoyable for the people involved. OTOH there are star engineers who can practically do everything (and who may or may not have a PhD) but they are way too few and expensive.
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My dad often claims that getting his PhD in Russian studies was the biggest mistake of his life, even though he stayed in a related field for the duration of his career. He would've rather just received his Masters and started his career.
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so what'd you end up deciding?
and yeah i had mentioned that if youre phd is in AI you'll be setup to *potentially* make the big bucks. but an undergrad in CS is already good enough to make the medium bucks. plus you'll be making the medium bucks sooner, rather than suffering through a phd.
* i say potentially. i work at amazon. i was on the imaging team. we had a full team of research scientists that did computer vision type stuff. the requirements state phd is required. however, based on the hearsay, they don't necessarily make that much more than a regular SDE (that's me). at least, not that much more that it would justify suffering through a PHD. i could be wrong though, but i'd be sure to ask (and not your biased professors who want you to stay - but data scientists in the industry)
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EPT
