• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:38
CEST 00:38
KST 07:38
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy2[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9
Community News
BSL Season 234Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?179
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 8/8 The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser Yamato Cup Series
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 SC2 AI Tournament 2026 Fall
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 544 Double Trouble The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended
Brood War
General
BSL Season 23 Bot on ladder an AI researcher's take on the ladder bot BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy
Tourneys
[BSL23] SM: Ret vs TerrOr -> DragOn vs StRyKeR [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro16 Group D [ASL22] Ro16 Group B
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Diablo IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine All you football fans (soccer)! Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Gaming Intensity, Problemati…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8650 users

Old Man Ramblings: Spirit Vessel

Blogs > ahw
Post a Reply
ahw
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada1099 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-25 15:13:26
October 25 2018 14:49 GMT
#1
Follow the journey of a thirty year old man as he slowly climbs solo mmr. He wanders onward not because he can, but because he must. Here he will complain about the youth of today and their misguided direction, strategy, and itemization. Here he will solve all misunderstandings about dotes.

old man meta

October was a good month for the climb. Dota is stale and broken and set. Lanes are predictable. 10th picks are swingy. But the throws are still true.

As the calendar turns to November, I’m a win from divine 2. Around 500 mmr higher than I was in September.

How can you climb as a senior citizen with your hands aching and your hair graying and your dreams drying up in your mind’s eye?

lets talk about spirit vessel

Side ramble about sticks incoming—

Idk how many threads I need to make about stick but seriously you should make one in like every game on almost every hero. Playing support and watching your lane partner make terrible item choices is the worst part. Like playing void vs brew and not buying a 200 gold item that salvages the lane.

As a support player, I like plays that can swing lanes and cause overcommitment. Magic stick is the easiest one to get and execute. If you are low, and they commit and dive you, burst heal and turn around is enough to win a bad lane. There’s no under 200g item that can do that (maybe salve if you are godly). That’s how you win games & lanes.

Anyway.

Spirit vessel. Okay, this is probably the best item in dota even after the nerfs. It gives so much for such an easy build up. Sustain wins solo games — it translates to objectives and gold advantage. Offensively, for 3k gold, it swings team fights hard. To the point where it makes unwinnable fights easy. Someone on your team needs this as quickly as possible every game without question. If you are a 5 it’s not ideal but it could be you.

Here’s a list of heroes vessel obliterates: alch, pudge, necro, brood, huskar, axe, bloodseeker, all blink initiators, all healing supports, all strength cores. Ench, jug, morph, dragon knight. Wisp, pugna, underlord. Undying.

faceless void. Oh man it fucks him over.

I had a game a week ago where I was lycan (I don’t usually play 1pos but sometimes it happens) and we were losing to a necro. My supports were rushing dumb items like blademail and blink so I made a vessel after book3. My team flamed me. But we crushed every fight because necro depends on his crazy regen.

but I’m playing xyz, I need to rush my {item}

Nope, you don’t, that why you are losing. Solved it. Buy this item before it’s reworked entirely. It’s gives you mana regen, a truckload of health, some armor, some MS, and a game winning active.

Your team 100% needs one, and you need someone who can use it properly (waiting for dispels, putting it on the right target, etc). Step it up.

why it’s so hard to play against

Vessel is easily obtainable on pretty much anyone. And it has to be played around or you will lose the fight. For example, necro might have to rush euls or BKB instead of straight radiance. A 4 or 5 position getting an item that changes how the enemy cores play their game is very important.

And it’s a snowball item. Once you get it, you are significantly stronger and you keep collecting charges. Charges that win fights.

next time

Old man will explain why everyone is wrong about handling broodmother
ASoo
Profile Joined November 2010
2867 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-10-25 22:33:58
October 25 2018 22:33 GMT
#2
Can I just say I am 100% there for your love of magic stick?

*edit* WHY IS IT NOT IN YOUR LIQUIDDOTA ITEM SLOTS?
linestein
Profile Blog Joined June 2018
United States210 Posts
October 26 2018 01:32 GMT
#3
I'm pretty old, too. Since you're just tipping thirty I thought I'd commiserate with you, here. Have no idea what you mean about Brood. The hero is no longer invisible, doesn't seem to move as fast, and seems to struggle mid. As if that weren't enough the maximum web count has been reduced as soon as they got worse.
"You can wish to be rich, you can wish to be tall. You can wish away the haters, you just gimme a call" ---Will Smith & DJ Khaled "Friend Like Me (End Title)"
ahw
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada1099 Posts
October 26 2018 01:35 GMT
#4
On October 26 2018 07:33 ASoo wrote:
Can I just say I am 100% there for your love of magic stick?

*edit* WHY IS IT NOT IN YOUR LIQUIDDOTA ITEM SLOTS?


Will fix soon
ahw
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Canada1099 Posts
October 26 2018 01:41 GMT
#5
On October 26 2018 10:32 linestein wrote:
I'm pretty old, too. Since you're just tipping thirty I thought I'd commiserate with you, here. Have no idea what you mean about Brood. The hero is no longer invisible, doesn't seem to move as fast, and seems to struggle mid. As if that weren't enough the maximum web count has been reduced as soon as they got worse.


53% wr divine, is a monster, will explain next post
ASoo
Profile Joined November 2010
2867 Posts
October 26 2018 19:01 GMT
#6
On October 26 2018 10:35 ahw wrote:
Will fix soon

Much better.
ThePianoDentist
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom698 Posts
October 30 2018 10:44 GMT
#7
I agree spirit vessel is still really good, but:

- if position 5 rushing it, it comes really, really late, especially against any enemy invis where have to spam sentries (seems like every game nowadays)
- some position 4's like earthshaker need blink so badly they cant really go vessel before blink

often forces it to be built on 1->3, but it doesnt improve farming speed at all, so a lot of cores dont want to go for it.

but I do like rushing it on spellcasting cores, like necro or pugna. you farm the creeps with your spells, the vit booster gives you some extra hp, and as you said, item is really really cost efficient

tl;dr I agree with you thats its very good and should be bought pretty much every game, was just adding some qualifiers as to where it's harder to just rush on any hero.
Brood War Protoss, SC2 Terran/Protoss
ThePianoDentist
Profile Joined July 2011
United Kingdom698 Posts
October 30 2018 10:51 GMT
#8
also yeah brood mid is broken for people who know the hero really well.

it can farm ancients next to mid, plus the lane. so be multiple levels and thousand gold ahead of enemy mid, even if enemy mid plays pretty much perfectly.

if its brood vs someone bad against brood like tinker, invoker, the brood can just solo kill them over and over again once has spider army as low as level 3 i think.

then even if you put counter against her mid, like axe, tiny, kunkka etc. she can just ignore that hero, creep skip and ancients and outfarm them.

(the hero falls off quite a bit later on in game, kind of relies on being ahead on gold of enemies to be effective. so one or two stupid deaths, or misplays, and brood can throw the game. stops it from being totally OP, but its still really obnoxious for enemy midlaners especially)
Brood War Protoss, SC2 Terran/Protoss
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL
19:00
S23 - Announcement Showmatch
Ret vs TerrOr
DragOn vs StRyKeR
ZZZero.O155
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech150
JuggernautJason69
SpeCial 52
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 574
Artosis 516
ZZZero.O 155
NaDa 24
Dota 2
monkeys_forever307
NeuroSwarm115
League of Legends
Doublelift3738
JimRising 516
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby2893
Khaldor237
Other Games
summit1g7606
FrodaN3414
Liquid`RaSZi2265
XaKoH 501
KnowMe261
ZombieGrub74
Mew2King60
CosmosSc2 19
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 87
• mYiSmile115
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21992
Other Games
• Scarra909
• imaqtpie504
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
1h 22m
Afreeca Starleague
11h 22m
Shine vs Rush
WardiTV Weekly
12h 22m
Monday Night Weeklies
17h 22m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 11h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 11h
Light vs EffOrt
OSC
1d 13h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
GSL
6 days
Yamato Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

K-JUNGMAN
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.