The Failures of SC2 - Page 2
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
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Thaniri
1264 Posts
A ball, however, is the perfect shape for damage. With ranged units, it applies equal DPS on all sides and naturally protects itself from surrounds by eliminating the gaps in between ranks and reducing surface area. Most importantly, it greatly increases the damage density. The level of salt makes this blog hard to read. This is the point at which I stopped. You're better than this. When you and I would play, you would die to straight up pushes from me. How can you even talk about grand strategy when your games would be decided within the first 10 minutes? And that gets even more interesting because I myself am an ATROCIOUS sc2 player. My games are decided by my ability to keep up with macro cycles. To show my perspective; I think SC2 has never been better. I love the chaos. Defenders advantage still exists, it's just not perfect. Turtles are lame. Mech is lame. Broodlord infestor was lame. Mass swarmhosts were lame. Broodwar TvP is lame. Now the game is about attacking everywhere at once and crisis management. It's exciting, difficult, and fun. | ||
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 06 2017 09:22 lestye wrote: It's not really "extra" damage. The wiki says "This damage type deals 100% to small units, 50% damage to medium units, and 25% damage to large units. " Maybe I'm playing semantics, but isnt that really saying that vultures do reduced damage to medium/large units and not bonus damage to small units? Yeah, good point. My fact checking has been garbage recently. In any case, I don't think there's much of a difference between "reduced dmg vs" or "extra dmg vs" except I guess if the extra damage were exacerbating damage numbers. Technically, the damage in SC2 is somewhat even compared to Brood War DPS, but minor stuff like re-targeting, horrible unit movement, and buggy pathing caused Brood War damage to drop substantially, especially in larger numbers. It just seems as if they developers didn't really take into account the smoother engine and mechanics when they designed the damage numbers, and then ignored it when things started dying almost instantly to everything. EDIT: EXCEPT for the siege tank. They had no problem nerfing that thing into the ground immediately and never touching it again. On June 06 2017 10:40 Thaniri wrote: The level of salt makes this blog hard to read. This is the point at which I stopped. You're better than this. When you and I would play, you would die to straight up pushes from me. How can you even talk about grand strategy when your games would be decided within the first 10 minutes? And that gets even more interesting because I myself am an ATROCIOUS sc2 player. My games are decided by my ability to keep up with macro cycles. To show my perspective; I think SC2 has never been better. I love the chaos. Defenders advantage still exists, it's just not perfect. Turtles are lame. Mech is lame. Broodlord infestor was lame. Mass swarmhosts were lame. Broodwar TvP is lame. Now the game is about attacking everywhere at once and crisis management. It's exciting, difficult, and fun. Nice ad hominem attack...? I couldn't care less if I played well or not. It doesn't change the fact that SC2 failed to realize its fullest potential due to a bunch of questionable design decisions from Blizzard. | ||
Thaniri
1264 Posts
I would not have replied if you weren't a community figure. A gold league reddit whine wouldn't have gotten a read from me. I apologize for the harshness. | ||
Endymion
United States3701 Posts
On June 06 2017 13:13 Thaniri wrote: I just have a hard time accepting these grievances from people who have not fully explored and understood the game. I would not have replied if you weren't a community figure. A gold league reddit whine wouldn't have gotten a read from me. I apologize for the harshness. wtf, why do i keep seeing this argument, who cares who he is??? stop attacking him and read the post itself.. this is literally saying "tldr...." | ||
SleepyZergling
3 Posts
On June 06 2017 10:40 Thaniri wrote: The level of salt makes this blog hard to read. This is the point at which I stopped. You're better than this. When you and I would play, you would die to straight up pushes from me. How can you even talk about grand strategy when your games would be decided within the first 10 minutes? And that gets even more interesting because I myself am an ATROCIOUS sc2 player. My games are decided by my ability to keep up with macro cycles. To show my perspective; I think SC2 has never been better. I love the chaos. Defenders advantage still exists, it's just not perfect. Turtles are lame. Mech is lame. Broodlord infestor was lame. Mass swarmhosts were lame. Broodwar TvP is lame. Now the game is about attacking everywhere at once and crisis management. It's exciting, difficult, and fun. Probably shouldn't be derailing... but what's the problem with BW TvP? Its one of my favourite MUs to play and watch, and is most certainly different from mass swarmhosts/Broodfestor etc. | ||
Thaniri
1264 Posts
On June 06 2017 15:12 Endymion wrote: wtf, why do i keep seeing this argument, who cares who he is??? stop attacking him and read the post itself.. this is literally saying "tldr...." I stopped reading when he said that a ball is the perfect shape for damage. I expect better of him. He was on the TLStrat team. This is such a basic fundamental concept that he got wrong that I can't be arsed to care any further. If he was some random guy I wouldn't give a shit, but he's not and should be called out on this line if nothing else. edit: All my ranting has been unjustified and immature. | ||
imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15868 Posts
Just say "things I personally don't like about the game". Many other people like sc2 exactly because of the reasons you stated in the OP. It would be like me referring to 12 unit selection cap and no auto-mining as design failures. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada16397 Posts
On June 07 2017 07:14 Charoisaur wrote: Really dislike it when people refer to things they dislike in sc2 as "design failures". Just say "things I personally don't like about the game". Many other people like sc2 exactly because of the reasons you stated in the OP. It would be like me referring to 12 unit selection cap and no auto-mining as design failures. this mislabeling leads to further imprecise thinking. we've got 3 really different RTS games to choose from... WC3, SC2:LotV, and Brood War. And soon, Brood War will be much easier to set up and install on modern OSs. If people want to moan, whine, bitch and complain about Blizzard's support of the RTS genre maybe they should check out the "awesome RTS games" Eugen Systems or Gearbox or Relic are pumping out these days. maybe we can get a big Halo Wars 2 clan going? | ||
lestye
United States4135 Posts
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EsportsJohn
United States4883 Posts
On June 07 2017 09:02 lestye wrote: Yeah, that's why I felt the criticism was way too strong. Not being dismissive of the critique, but making a giant list of "failures" its kinda ignoring the successes of the game, and makes it seem like its a giant disaster like CnC4 or something. Tbf, I did mention a lot of things that are amazing in SC2 such as the pathing engine and quality of life improvements. There are a lot of good components to the game, and it obviously did very well. This is just a personal list of grievances, of things that could have been handled a bit better with some better foresight. | ||
castleeMg
Canada757 Posts
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conTAgi0n
United States335 Posts
The point of auto-mining is to save you the trouble of a repetitive, brainless task that could just as easily be automated. By that logic though, I don't see why I shouldn't be able to set macro mechanics to auto-cast. It would be so simple to implement. Queens could auto-cast spawn larva on any hatcheries in their sight range when idle, and orbital commands could be set to cast call down MULE on the nearest mineral patch that the player has vision of. If you want to bank mana for scans or whatever, you could right-click the icon to toggle auto-cast on and off, just like in Warcraft III. And of course chrono boost already auto-casts now. On the other hand, if auto-cast would would make the game too easy, or defeat the purpose of having macro mechanics in the first place, then I don't understand how having macro mechanics is any better than disabling auto-mining. From the perspective of marketing and player satisfaction though, I suppose it makes a lot of sense. Auto-mining has become an expectation for modern RTS games, and macro mechanics are an alternative that most gamers are willing to accept. Plus you could make the case that psychologically, forgetting to send workers to mine feels like a mistake, whereas remembering to use a macro mechanic feels like a reward. | ||
lestye
United States4135 Posts
Having both macro mechanics and auto-mining has always seemed like an inconsistent design choice to me. I dont think so. Your third paragraph is probably best describes the reasoning. The idea is to replace that macro upkeep with something that feels more substantial than a worker rally, which many feel is redundant and silly. | ||
CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
All of BW revolves around what mechanical skills each player has, and once achieved they unlock certain strategies. To me it feels like players that find rallying workers lame or silly severely lack discipline. Sure, in concept rallying workers manually is completely mundane. However in practice the mechanical skills needed are immensely valuable. Once able to rally workers effectively, a mastery of either control groups or F-Keys is needed. Either of these mechanical avenues are needed to unlock other types of important gameplay maneuvers. It's a lot like the concept of training wheels. When learning to ride a bike, first we must cope with training wheels. Training wheels are completely redundant, mundane, and get the in the way. But after a certain point they must be removed, and balancing the bike congeals into the muscle memory. In this way rallying workers is akin to training wheels. After a certain point rallying workers becomes trivial and easy, as the action is absorbed into muscle memory, ready to be re-used for other important tasks. All I'm saying is players that don't like the simple and boring concept of rallying workers, at least to me, seem to lack discipline and in the end miss out on a lot of fun. | ||
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conTAgi0n
United States335 Posts
On June 08 2017 23:41 lestye wrote: I dont think so. Your third paragraph is probably best describes the reasoning. The idea is to replace that macro upkeep with something that feels more substantial than a worker rally, which many feel is redundant and silly. Perhaps inconsistent is the wrong word. What I meant to get across is that macro mechanics and auto-mining are accomplish opposite goals: auto-mining removes a repetitive macro task, while macro mechanics add one back in. Of course if most players happen to find one repetitive macro task more palatable than the other, and you think that the game really needs at least one of them to maintain the skill curve, then it is totally sensible to go with the one that most players prefer. To me though, it feels a little arbitrary that my drones can auto-mine, but my queens can't auto-cast inject larva. | ||
lestye
United States4135 Posts
On June 09 2017 02:26 conTAgi0n wrote: Perhaps inconsistent is the wrong word. What I meant to get across is that macro mechanics and auto-mining are accomplish opposite goals: auto-mining removes a repetitive macro task, while macro mechanics add one back in. Of course if most players happen to find one repetitive macro task more palatable than the other, and you think that the game really needs at least one of them to maintain the skill curve, then it is totally sensible to go with the one that most players prefer. To me though, it feels a little arbitrary that my drones can auto-mine, but my queens can't auto-cast inject larva. I think what the repetitive task is and how substantial it is is an important thing. Because of other RTS games, people probably feel that rally/automine should be in the game and they're taking away by making them do a task other games would normally just rally/automate. While inject/MULE/ is probably more impactful and it doesnt feel like something you might automate, whereas workers are, if that makes sense. | ||
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conTAgi0n
United States335 Posts
On June 09 2017 04:12 lestye wrote: I think what the repetitive task is and how substantial it is is an important thing. Because of other RTS games, people probably feel that rally/automine should be in the game and they're taking away by making them do a task other games would normally just rally/automate. While inject/MULE/ is probably more impactful and it doesnt feel like something you might automate, whereas workers are, if that makes sense. I think we are saying pretty much the same thing at this point. As you say, players feel as though worker mining should be automated, because they are used to not having to do it in other games. Meanwhile macro mechanics don't feel like something that should be automated, even though it is a repetitive macro task that could be automated just as easily as worker mining. It is still a case of removing one repetitive task only to replace it with another, but for purely subjective reasons, most players prefer the swap. | ||
ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
On June 04 2017 10:04 EsportsJohn wrote: Decided to do a bit of a short article about my thoughts on StarCraft 2…and then it grew into this thing. I want to be very clear that StarCraft is quite honestly one of the best things that has ever happened to me; it completely changed my view of the world, and I’ve never been the same since I first discovered it. Nonetheless, I think it failed to live up to its potential, and it’s important to look back on the history of the game, how it evolved, how it came to be, and really think critically about how it was handled. It’s important to do this sort of analysis, not just because I just want to disagree with David Kim, but because I truly believe the developers didn’t think through their design decisions properly, and thus the finished product was botched beyond belief. This is actually a general problem in the media industry as a whole. You start off with a product, and then "test" it against focus groups. The idea is to expand the demographic so that the finished product will make more money. Movies generally have this problem where the original script gets butchered by the studio, and that's why there are random things in movies that seem really out-of-place. For example, a studio makes a movie based on a children's cartoon show. Let's call it "Dora The Explorer: The Movie" and it's about Dora trying to find her way back to her family using a magic map. Then the studio says: "We need to slip a bunch of sexual innuendo into the movie so it makes teens laugh." and then you have a scene where a pirate is like "I'm gonna get my hands on that booty!" and another pirate beside him is like, "I'm having flashbacks to my time in prison!!!" Get it? You get anally raped in prison. Haha. Great joke. In this case, the focus group is the "SC2 community", which is not a hivemind. There are two primary strains of armchair-game-designers: The first is adamant about making the game as complicated as humanly possible. The means units that are harder to control, a lower margin for error, and so forth. This is to 'raise the skill ceiling'. Whether or not the changes they propose actually raise the skill ceiling is debatable, but that's not the point. The second group wants to make the game friendly to noobs in order to "get new people into the game", with their endgame being that they want SC2 to be a giant world-wide phenomenon because it's easy enough for a six-year-old to pick up and play. The problem is that Blizzard takes all this input, and what comes out the other side of the Blizzard machine are changes that, ultimately, don't please either party. I think Blizzard needs some direction when it comes to where they want the game to go. But their hands are really tied because if Blizzard dumbs the game down too much, progamers will hate it and stop playing, and if Blizzard makes the game too complicated, casuals will hate it and stop playing. As a result, you get this sort-of-middle-ground mess. The point is, I don't know really how much control over the changes the development team actually had. It's easy to blame them, but ultimately, they're just doing their job. They can only work with the allotted budget given to their division, which in business terms, is not a lot of money. I’ve been through a lot of ups and downs with StarCraft 2, and since I’ve taken the long way around to playing Brood War, I feel I’m qualified to explain the design failures of StarCraft 2 accurately with a sober and impartial approach free from “arguments of nostalgia”. If one calls a game "Something 2", it will be inevitably compared to "Something 1". There's no way around that. Even if you played SC2 first, then played Brood War after that, the similarities in both games and title compel comparisons between the two. So sure, you're not 'arguing from nostalgia', but when you start comparing 1 and 2 I want to avoid making too many Brood War vs StarCraft 2 arguments, but I think it would be willfully ignorant to gloss over the things that BW did correctly just to avoid a comparison argument. then it doesn't matter when you played which game. The comparison has been made regardless, so either you go there or you don't. When StarCraft first came out, it was compared to a lot of other games, such as WarCraft II, Total Annihilation, Age of Empires, etc. However, back in the 90s, gaming culture was quite a bit different than it is today. Most games were designed for "nerds", and for each nerd-niche, there was a little company willing to publish games. PC gaming is a lot more mainstream now, and so the way games are made has changed with the culture. SC2 always had the problem of copying its core concepts from a very retro StarCraft: Brood War. It would be almost impossible to compare SC2 with a modern RTS like Act of Aggression or Ashes of The Singularity or Something of The Something 2: Something that starts with an 'R'. Basically, once you open Pandora's Box (teehee) it can't be closed. Defender’s Advantage is Dead If you play Brood War for only a moment, you will immediately notice the insane power of defender’s advantage. With the right units, you can hold a base forever against your opponent. For instance, literally no number of marine/medic will ever break three lurkers on top of a ramp, and Protoss can camp out on one base with Templar, Dark Archons, and Arbiters safely for pretty much eternity. This is only half-true. Maybe you were using hyperbole, but you said "literally no number of marine/medic" and I wasn't sure, because it's not cost-effective to break the ramp with marine/medic, but that doesn't mean it literally can't be done. Besides that, there are many situations where the attacker has an advantage, like if a Zerg is sending guardians to hit SCVs from over a cliff, and the units at the bottom of the cliff can't reach them because they're over water. This sort of defense doesn’t exist in StarCraft 2. It’s not necessarily bad that the sequel got rid of high ground advantages that relied on RNG, but the effects on the gameplay were numerous and adverse. Perhaps the largest difference is the emergence of the “deathball syndrome”. I don’t necessarily mean the emergence of large armies, but rather the phenomenon where players will always expand outward from their main while using a rather mobile army bouncing between bases to defend. From this issue arises a whole slew of other problems, from hard counters to uninteresting economic models to unit design issues. Here’s an example: in Brood War, one of the key concepts, particularly for Zerg and Protoss players, is to expand to other corners of the map and create two “main bases” to work outwards from. This means that you can defend one base from your opponent’s attacks while slowly building up a force at the other base. When the big doom push comes knocking at your natural expansion, you can stall out with defilers or templar while continuing to amass forces at the other corner of the map. I don't see how this is a 'problem' over being a personal preference. Say you play on a two-player map in Brood War. Pretty much the same thing as what you just described is going to take place. Also, it is not necessary for a player to take the faraway base. If a player expands to the faraway main, it is a calculated level of risk they are taking, because of the economic benefit it may yield if they can defend it successfully. The distance of the faraway base makes it more difficult to defend than a closer base. While taking a far base may not be viable in SC2 (I don't really know the answer to this for sure), it is definitely not a necessity in SC1. If you go, "You're proving my point by showing how SC1 is more diverse in its gameplay by giving players more choices on what they can do strategically." then you're welcome. A Thought Experiment I didn't give you permission to experiment on my thoughts. Think abstractly for a moment. This is how I think most of the time. Two kings are at war with one another. King Raynor has only one castle, but King Artanis has two castles placed a reasonable distance apart. If Raynor wants to take over Artanis’s empire, he will want to invade both castles. He can either split his forces and risk being unable to break either or he can overrun them one at a time; naturally, Raynor will decide to dedicate all of his forces toward one target to avoid splitting his damage too much. Assuming unlimited resources, the king with two castles will always win. Artanis can stall out Raynor’s siege for a very long time while gathering his forces at his other castle, eventually gathering a critical mass that will allow him surround and crush the invasion or attack Raynor’s base directly; Raynor will have to either sacrifice his castle (which he can’t) or retreat with his forces intact. Either way, Artanis with his two castles comes out ahead in the war. Unless both have nuclear missiles. Then it's mutually-assured destruction. If you remove the defender’s advantage—say, the two kings own camps on large fields—there are few incentives to creating large camps far away from each other (though you do have the perk of being able to relocate easily). Instead, the kings will tend to clump up their resources and rely more on mobile troops who can switch very quickly between attack and defense to guard their land. History will show that this is often the case in less advanced regions, with examples such as the Mongols during Atila’s reign or the Iroquois Indians in the plains region of North America; the group that was proficient on horseback and owned many horses was always on the winning side. The second example is much closer to the accidental design of StarCraft 2. It’s not necessarily bad, but it does create a situation where bases must be tightly clustered and multi-purposed units with a lot of mobility reign supreme. If you need a more concrete example, look at the one exception in Brood War: ZvZ. In that matchup, Sunken and Spore Colonies simply don’t attack quickly enough to deal with swarms of mutalisks or zerglings, therefore negating a lot of the defender’s advantage. As such, players constantly had to match their opponent’s army in order to defend against potentially fatal attacks. This is true all the mirror matches in SC1, and also TvZ. The main difficulty for Zerg in TvZ is defending all of the places that Terran can hit them from. You could argue that ZvZ was borderline chaos. StarCraft 2 took this a step further into to the extreme when things like instant reinforcement (Protoss Warp-ins, speedlings on creep) and hyper utility units (like the Queen or the Mothership Core) were added to the game and even further weakened the defender’s advantage. The road since then has never yielded us a comfortable design that felt manageable. Without the proper checks and a stable set of rules, this sort of mobile warfare devolves from a brilliant allocation of troops similar to Risk into absolute chaos. The Deathball: An Unintended Side Effect The thought experiment above is actually great for understanding different systems of warfare and even understanding some of the asymmetric balance that occurs between the races in StarCraft, but as you can see, it comes with some serious considerations. If bases aren’t spread out, what’s the point of spreading your army out? The only reason to 'spread your army out' is because you have a numerical superiority that makes such a thing possible. There are some obvious historical examples of this, but let's stick to video games. If you play a game with a supply cap, then it's not possible to have a huge advantage in numbers unless you cripple your opponent early in the game. It stands to reason, then, that if you cannot outnumber your opponent, you will gain a different kind of advantage. I'm not even sure why SC2 has a supply cap, though. It just feels like they were trying to create a retro game with modern game stuff in it, and it didn't work out. Now the object is to just mass the most powerful or composition-correct series of units until you reach 200, and then you have no choice but to attack. This archetype occurs in SC1 frequently, and is not unique to SC2. Deathballs were something that emerged almost immediately in Starcraft 2‘s storied past, beginning with the horrific 1 food roach swarms during the beta. Many reasons were stated in the past as to why this particular phenomenon seemed to crop up: it was the fault of “unlimited” unit selection, damage density, hyper-mobile units, weak AoE, boring unit design, economic mining behavior, etc. There’s no doubt that these things may have exacerbated the problem, but at its core, it all began with a lack of defender’s advantage. I just think SC2 units kill each other way too fast. The units themselves seem like they have a lot of cool ideas behind them, but I just see huge armies get toasted in like three seconds because the units are so densely packed together and run into some amazingly destructive firepower. If you have a weak defender’s advantage and have to rely primarily on numbers, then positioning becomes much more important. In the late game, a large army can only be defended by an equally large army. It’s difficult to spare even a single unit to defend outlying bases, much less split your army in two. Thus, it makes more sense to move your army in a large ball between bases, using small groups and vision to deter possible counterattacks. Blizzard’s Attempt to Fix the Problem Legacy of the Void has attempted to artificially solve this problem by starving players out (“expand or die”) yeah, I hated this concept, which is why I didn't purchase LotV. and forcing them to take blind chances with their positioning; they must split up their army and do harassment on several different fronts to protect their own economy while slowing down their opponent’s. You will always lose something, so it becomes a battle to see who can lose less—it’s skillful, but not necessarily fulfilling. For multiple reasons, I don’t believe this is fun (though I know others believe differently). More objectively, however, it creates a world in which a “perfect game” is impossible, a sentiment that many Korean players and coaches have shared with David Kim and the design team over and over—it’s not just very hard to play well, it’s literally impossible. One of the beauties of Brood War is that it can actually nearly be mastered. Basic macro and positioning is difficult to do, but very much achievable with many intermediate steps along the way. Most of the difficulty is in the PvE aspect, so you feel great if you played a game with high APM, great macro, and a well-executed strategy. From there, it’s a battle with your opponent to see who can out-multitask the other. That’s where the endless challenge of Brood War lies, and it’s an endless pursuit as long as players play the game competitively. I don't think this is necessarily a design flaw in SC2 itself, but more of a lack of familiarity. Every time the game is patched, it fundamentally alters the actual in-game stuff. The frequency by which Blizzard makes such changes is very detrimental to a progamer, because it takes a long time, a lot of practice, and a lot of games to start to figure out how to exploit the small things in a manner that is useful to a progamer. This is how meta-shifts like the "bisu build" and "crazy zerg" came about, and for those play styles to be countered by new play styles. At a fundamental level, the game itself did not change. The units in 2006 were the same units that existed in 2005. Unfortunately for SC2 players, the units that exist today are changed periodically. Therefore, the players are not the ones solving problems, but the company is solving problems for the players by changing the problems. I hear a lot of people go, "Match-ups in SC2 are the same stuff every game and it gets boring." which is an understandable complaint, but most SC1 games are similar as well. If you watch any Brood War game, you have a pretty good idea of what sorts of things are going to be built, with minor variations. The reason stuff becomes "standard" is because it works. Good players will always try to figure out how to use what's available to them in the best way they know how. That, of course, would change over time if it were not changed for them. On the other hand, Legacy of the Void has an extremely low barrier of entry but forces you to make blind decisions regarding your tech, scouting, and army positioning. While this can be entertaining from a spectator’s perspective (for those “big moments”), it’s nigh impossible to practice properly because of the game’s ever-changing nature depending on the opponent, their build, and their playstyle; you cannot become proficient without either having innate godlike twitch mechanics or an uncanny ability to read your opponent and guess their next move. I don't know how hard it is to scout in SC2, but something about this seems amiss. To reiterate, this is a band-aid fix for a problem that runs much deeper than the surface. It’s not necessarily accurate to give the game an inherent property that actually means something, but for a game that is based on economics, Starcraft 2 fails on the premise of making economics meaningful. Unit interaction and throwing a wrench in your opponent’s plans take up a far more meaningful role than building bases and managing resources. There are some potential fixes that could have helped to fix deathballs (such as better defender’s advantage, stronger space control, or some sort of innate base defense that can defend against small numbers of units), but a starvation economy and an increased focus on harassment has done nothing but destabilize the game. LotV is just a metaphor for the Congolese Civil Wars. Damage Numbers Are Out of Control One of the key features of StarCraft 2 has always been its quick pace and smooth graphics. Compared to Brood War (or really any other RTS that came out around the same time), it runs on a beautiful, efficient engine. Everyone who’s seen a dragoon take 20 minutes to find the entrance to a ramp knows exactly the frustration that older generation RTS’s posed in terms of unit movement and animation. StarCraft 2, on the other hand, was revolutionary. For the first time, units would glide over the terrain with precision and accuracy. Micro tricks like marine splitting, blink stalker micro, and ling/baneling wars were the apex of the game’s achievements; nothing in the world takes your breath away like watching a pro player split marines like a god. Anyone who argues for the wonky glitches and awkward unit interaction from older generation RTS’s is living in a fantasy world. Either way, we still have to face the fact that the smoothness of the engine did cause some unintentional problems. The first inherent problem is the tendency for units to clump up. If you select a large group of units and click at a designated location, the engine will give each and every unit a command to walk to that exact spot on the map, hindered only by unit collision. Not a big deal, but it does create some issues in that groups will always travel in clusters. Add in “unlimited” unit selection, and you’ve got yourself a good old-fashioned “deathball”. One of the beauties of older generation games was that units moved in waves or small, kind of square-like groups that was messy and required micro management to keep it in line. A ball, however, is the perfect shape for damage. With ranged units, it applies equal DPS on all sides and naturally protects itself from surrounds by eliminating the gaps in between ranks and reducing surface area. Most importantly, it greatly increases the damage density. I agree with this, mostly. Units should not pack themselves together like sardines. A ball is the perfect shape for taking ranged AoE damage, I'd say. If the ball is made of ranged units against melee units, then the ball is going to be more efficient theoretically. For dealing damage, ranged units are best when situated in an arc, so all of them can fire onto an incoming enemy from all sides. This is especially important for melee units, so that they can all hit at the same time. If melee units attack in a ball, only the units at the front can attack. That's all I've got for now because I'm tired. Also, macro was a mistake. Edit: btw, this is not an "argument" or "debate" reply. I'm just saying my thoughts. | ||
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