• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:30
CEST 03:30
KST 10:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-66SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-63PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)11Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE15
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) August World Ranking: Clem climbs to #2 Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week Life's Huge Gambling Spree After IEM Katowice 2014
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event INu's Battles #19 2-Days Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-6
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Artosis Joins SC4ALL II As Our First BW Invite! BW General Discussion Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6 2v2v2v2 Tournament Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Beyond All Reason Path of Exile
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club The Scarlett Fan Club The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6574 users

You don't lose when you fail

Blogs > docvoc
Post a Reply
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-05-31 18:43:47
May 31 2017 04:43 GMT
#1
Why do you think it's over? Just because you lost? It's not over. That's what you don't get, you don't lose when you fail. You lose when you give up.


I was sitting in my dorm room sulking about a month and a half ago. I got an email saying that I hadn't won the fellowship I had applied for. All decisions were - are - final the email said. It was the standard, you're great, just not great enough, so have a great life kind of deal. I was reading it, and my heart dropped as soon as the phrase, "We regret to inform you" came about. Hundreds of hours of translating, talking, searching, skyping, and playing hockey were spent just to get my idea off the ground.


Him: But what about Wayne Gretzky? I watched him for a couple of games in the 90's, I haven't watched a lot of hockey, but how does he fit into your argument about culture and the ethics of hockey.
Me: Well he fits right in actually -
Him: But he was small and effeminate, that isn't reconcilable with your project given your philosophical take on the ethics and moral codification of hockey.
Me: Well you see he had people, like Luc Robataille and others, who were there to protect him and play the role of a new version of the ethics that I described. It's important to remember though that the rules were changed because of Gretzky, so the modern game's ethics also changed and that is all the more interesting.
Him: Yeah, but I don't think that's true. What you wrote just can't account for Gretzky.


My friends told me that they knew before the letter came that I was going to probably not get it. The top 149 students in the country, and I was one of the 101 losers. I came back to my dorm room from that interview and told them that I didn't think it went well. When I got my letter back, it was confirmed.

So I sulked a bit. Well I sulked out loud for 24 hours. Up until a month ago, I was sulking internally. I had literally gone to the ends of the earth contacting the farthest Island off Russia's west coast, the farthest down in the tip of Patagonia, and the most remote in the badlands of the Kazahki-Siberia borderlands. All of it was based on the idea that if I won I would have 30k to spend on housing and food - the rest would be covered by some of the nicest people I had ever met. I had promised people I would be there if I won, to coach, to play, to be their American Ambassador on social media. It was all a high stakes gamble. One that I lost. Now I had no post-grad plans, and all of my ideas (like interning at places I cared about pursuing a career in like the Fed Bureau of Ethics, the EPA, etc.) were foiled by other unfortunate happenings. Nothing was left but to coach and play hockey for the summer. No job, no real resume building, no nothing. I was good, just not good enough, and at the time I was just about to give up on my dreams of exploring philosophy around the world.

I asked my friends what I should do, they told me to keep trying. I asked my girlfriend, she told me everything would be ok. So I called home, and my mom told me the phrase I posted at the top. I shouldn't be so hard on myself she said, I just needed to keep striving to become who I want to be. Failure was not the end all be all of my life, and I hadn't lost anything, but if I gave up I'd lose everything I worked for. I knew she was right, but I didn't know how to take her advice at the time. I didn't know how to apply her words of wisdom. What who I want to be seems to change with each failure. But, honestly, I felt like I really had lost my shot. I put my entire year into a scholarship, done nothing but eat, sleep, and breathe it. Then poof, I lost.

Now its late May, and I think I understand that quote a bit more. I saw that the Fulbright ETA opened up spots in Brazil, and I was wishy-washy if I wanted to do it. I was vaccilating because I was afraid of failing to win a scholarship that for some people is a thing made of dreams. I was being an idiot. I didn't lose the Watson. I didn't lose 30k. And I didn't lose my dreams. I failed to realize it through that one manner, but that doesn't mean there aren't other ways to get there. I failed, but I didn't lose.

I hope when I write my next blog post, or whenever I get the info in I can say I was chosen for a Fulbright to Brazil (or a different nation with more hockey ) and then was able to study the philosophy of sports morality afterwards.

*****
User was warned for too many mimes.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17714 Posts
May 31 2017 06:35 GMT
#2
imagine if Gretzky played Rollerball....
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
May 31 2017 18:43 GMT
#3
On May 31 2017 15:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
imagine if Gretzky played Rollerball....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVUxK1mNups#t=42s

RIP the great one
User was warned for too many mimes.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17714 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-01 18:12:59
June 01 2017 17:58 GMT
#4
sry to nitpick here but Luc Robitaille was not an "enforcer" and he did nothing to "protect" Gretzky. Robitaille was a goal scorer. The primary "enforcers" playing with Gretzky were Semenko and Mcsorley. You'll notice Mcsorley got traded along with Gretzky to LA in the summer of 88.

Also, big rule changes occurred after the 2005 full season strike. It was because scoring was very low for many years and they wanted to cut down on severe concussions. The rule changes were an attempt to increase scoring and decrease head injuries. Didn't have to do with Gretzky. In fact, when Todd Bertuzzi badly injured Steve Moore ending Moore's career Gretzky was a big proponent of getting Bertuzzi back into the NHL and on the Canadian National Team.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/bertuzzi-the-teams-biggest----perhaps-only----gamble/article1331928/

although Gretzky himself didn't partake in the physical side of the game he felt it was an important and intrinsic part of the game.



this ended Steve Moore's career and was the exact kind of vigilante on ice justice Wayne Gretzky was a big proponent of his entire career.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
June 02 2017 05:06 GMT
#5
On June 02 2017 02:58 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
sry to nitpick here but Luc Robitaille was not an "enforcer" and he did nothing to "protect" Gretzky. Robitaille was a goal scorer. The primary "enforcers" playing with Gretzky were Semenko and Mcsorley. You'll notice Mcsorley got traded along with Gretzky to LA in the summer of 88.

Also, big rule changes occurred after the 2005 full season strike. It was because scoring was very low for many years and they wanted to cut down on severe concussions. The rule changes were an attempt to increase scoring and decrease head injuries. Didn't have to do with Gretzky. In fact, when Todd Bertuzzi badly injured Steve Moore ending Moore's career Gretzky was a big proponent of getting Bertuzzi back into the NHL and on the Canadian National Team.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/bertuzzi-the-teams-biggest----perhaps-only----gamble/article1331928/

although Gretzky himself didn't partake in the physical side of the game he felt it was an important and intrinsic part of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yxMbWlnWV8#t=65s

this ended Steve Moore's career and was the exact kind of vigilante on ice justice Wayne Gretzky was a big proponent of his entire career.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/r/robitlu01.html - I checked his PIM, its like a penalty a game or two a game, but you're right it doesn't point to anything like I had thought. I had Robitaille pegged wrong - but I mostly mentioned him because my interviewer said that he lived next to the man. I got into hockey way after Gretzky. I watched it as a kid with my dad, but I didn't start playing and really paying attention until really about 4 years ago, so I didn't know much lore and history now. I know a lot about rule change history though - mostly because of my project that I was trying to get ok-ed on hockey ethics.

On a separate note, I agree that Gretzky has made it clear he thinks the physical side is important, but I think in condensing the conversation I didn't make it clear that I was addressing several points my interviewer made. I was referring to this The Gretzky Rule This rule change happened way earlier than when my interviewer saw Gretzky and was one of the big reasons that I had so much trouble making him understand how Gretzky really did fit into the culture side.
User was warned for too many mimes.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17714 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-02 15:07:13
June 02 2017 15:06 GMT
#6
that rule change got reversed later on as they mentioned in the article. it was only in effect for a few years. it had no lasting impact on hockey culture or hockey ethics.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
June 02 2017 19:48 GMT
#7
On June 03 2017 00:06 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
that rule change got reversed later on as they mentioned in the article. it was only in effect for a few years. it had no lasting impact on hockey culture or hockey ethics.

7 years, not just a few. I would strongly disagree with that last bit. I realize that the rule got reversed, but that isn't the end all be all of its impact. The impact is huge from an ethics standpoint because showing that players are what the rules are bent around, and not the other way around like in many other sports is just one reason why rules like that - even if they do get reversed - have lasting effects on the way that strategy, ethics, and rules go together. From a social/cultural side I think we can credit rule changes like that and the almost reversal entirely towards what Gretzky's Oiler's did in the 80's with why hockey has begun to swing the other way with the new Penguin's offensive strategies - especially on the PP.
User was warned for too many mimes.
[N3O]r3d33m3r
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany673 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-03 03:47:59
June 03 2017 00:23 GMT
#8
On June 02 2017 02:58 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
sry to nitpick here but Luc Robitaille was not an "enforcer" and he did nothing to "protect" Gretzky. Robitaille was a goal scorer. The primary "enforcers" playing with Gretzky were Semenko and Mcsorley. You'll notice Mcsorley got traded along with Gretzky to LA in the summer of 88.

You mean the primary players alongside of Wayne Gretzky were Glenn Anderson, Mark Messier and Jari Kurri.
Jari Kurri assisted Wayne Gretzky on over half his goals!!! Sink that in.
Never forget legendary defenseman Paul Coffey. Who then later played for the Pittsburgh Penguins. If Lemieux didn't get ill, the Penguins would have won way more cups in the mid 90s after their 2 Cups in the early 90s. Jagr, Francis, Stevens, Coffey, Recchi, Trottier, Lemieux! Godlike teams!
On June 03 2017 04:48 docvoc wrote:
From a social/cultural side I think we can credit rule changes like that and the almost reversal entirely towards what Gretzky's Oiler's did in the 80's with why hockey has begun to swing the other way with the new Penguin's offensive strategies - especially on the PP.
If Lemieux didn't get ill, the Penguins would have won way more cups in the mid 90s after their 2 Cups in the early 90s.
Jagr, Francis, Stevens, Coffey, Recchi, Trottier, Lemieux! Godlike team!
After 1995, the dead puck era truly began. Thus the trap was born, first invented by the New Jersey Devils. Niedermayer, Stevens and their third defenseman and goalkeeper Martin Brodeur.
[N3O]r3d33m3r
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany673 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-03 00:28:15
June 03 2017 00:25 GMT
#9
Oops, double post... can a mod edit??!
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17714 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-06-03 23:58:27
June 03 2017 23:34 GMT
#10
On June 03 2017 09:23 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2017 02:58 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
sry to nitpick here but Luc Robitaille was not an "enforcer" and he did nothing to "protect" Gretzky. Robitaille was a goal scorer. The primary "enforcers" playing with Gretzky were Semenko and Mcsorley. You'll notice Mcsorley got traded along with Gretzky to LA in the summer of 88.

You mean the primary players alongside of Wayne Gretzky were Glenn Anderson, Mark Messier and Jari Kurri.
Jari Kurri assisted Wayne Gretzky on over half his goals!!! Sink that in.
Never forget legendary defenseman Paul Coffey. Who then later played for the Pittsburgh Penguins. If Lemieux didn't get ill, the Penguins would have won way more cups in the mid 90s after their 2 Cups in the early 90s. Jagr, Francis, Stevens, Coffey, Recchi, Trottier, Lemieux! Godlike teams!
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2017 04:48 docvoc wrote:
From a social/cultural side I think we can credit rule changes like that and the almost reversal entirely towards what Gretzky's Oiler's did in the 80's with why hockey has begun to swing the other way with the new Penguin's offensive strategies - especially on the PP.
If Lemieux didn't get ill, the Penguins would have won way more cups in the mid 90s after their 2 Cups in the early 90s.
Jagr, Francis, Stevens, Coffey, Recchi, Trottier, Lemieux! Godlike team!
After 1995, the dead puck era truly began. Thus the trap was born, first invented by the New Jersey Devils. Niedermayer, Stevens and their third defenseman and goalkeeper Martin Brodeur.


my post discusses his "enforcers" not the skill players he played with. the enforcers were Mcsorley and Semenko. Mcsorley followed Gretzky to LA.

the trap was a variation on the "Roger Nielson System of Hockey". Nielson teams could slow a game down to a crawl when facing a more skilled team
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
[N3O]r3d33m3r
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany673 Posts
June 05 2017 03:13 GMT
#11
On June 04 2017 08:34 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2017 09:23 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:
You mean the primary players alongside of Wayne Gretzky were Glenn Anderson, Mark Messier and Jari Kurri.
Jari Kurri assisted Wayne Gretzky on over half his goals!!! Sink that in.
Never forget legendary defenseman Paul Coffey. Who then later played for the Pittsburgh Penguins. If Lemieux didn't get ill, the Penguins would have won way more cups in the mid 90s after their 2 Cups in the early 90s. Jagr, Francis, Stevens, Coffey, Recchi, Trottier, Lemieux! Godlike teams!
On June 03 2017 04:48 docvoc wrote:
From a social/cultural side I think we can credit rule changes like that and the almost reversal entirely towards what Gretzky's Oiler's did in the 80's with why hockey has begun to swing the other way with the new Penguin's offensive strategies - especially on the PP.
If Lemieux didn't get ill, the Penguins would have won way more cups in the mid 90s after their 2 Cups in the early 90s.
Jagr, Francis, Stevens, Coffey, Recchi, Trottier, Lemieux! Godlike team!
After 1995, the dead puck era truly began. Thus the trap was born, first invented by the New Jersey Devils. Niedermayer, Stevens and their third defenseman and goalkeeper Martin Brodeur.


my post discusses his "enforcers" not the skill players he played with. the enforcers were Mcsorley and Semenko. Mcsorley followed Gretzky to LA.

the trap was a variation on the "Roger Nielson System of Hockey". Nielson teams could slow a game down to a crawl when facing a more skilled team
Interesting, never heard the term "Roger Nielson System of Hockey". I guess his team is also what really made Gretzky shine.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 31m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft363
Ketroc 21
FoxeR 4
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 4374
GuemChi 2870
Artosis 668
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm109
capcasts96
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
summit1g6158
Fnx 663
taco 160
minikerr29
Super Smash Bros
PPMD134
Other Games
JimRising 538
Day[9].tv390
C9.Mang0295
XaKoH 248
ToD194
JuggernautJason161
Maynarde143
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1359
BasetradeTV127
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH311
• Hupsaiya 91
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 23
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21991
Other Games
• Day9tv390
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
8h 31m
INu's Battles
9h 31m
Percival vs Zoun
Cure vs TBD
ByuN vs TBD
TBD vs NightMare
PiGosaur Cup
22h 31m
Replay Cast
1d 7h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 9h
Replay Cast
1d 22h
The PondCast
2 days
INu's Battles
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Escore
3 days
[ Show More ]
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-08-03
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
RSL Revival: Season 6
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.