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This thread is made in response to people bitching about streamers like Waga, RTZ, etc playing on smurf accounts that calibrate to whatever the max is and then they have to play them up to where their real mmr is. I seriously had no idea the DotA community was so uneducated on what the main difference is between them (the commoners) and everyone who makes it to higher mmr.
I speak not as a pro (I wish...) but as a 6.2k max mmr player who also frequently smurfs in the 4k ranges and also the 2-3k ranges if I'm playing with friends. In the few times I have streamed, I also have come under fire for doing these sorts of things and I've found it wholly ridiculous. The main difference between the millions (literally MILLIONS) of players that are sub-5k and those of us above that mark is our brains. We think differently, we also have different opinions and emotions because of that superiority. If you polled the entire pro scene, you'd find most of the players to have very similar philosophies when it comes to learning. So, what exactly does that mean?
For example, Wagamama came under some pretty heavy fire (and I think he still is) from this https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/64nmtk/everyone_is_ok_with_wagamama_smurfing/?st=j1e05cai&sh=11aaec0a thread and others who chose to comment on his twitter and his stream chat. I have read and seen others who also are harassed for smurfing. Just as the OP in that thread says, it sums up the "n00b mentality" very nicely:
He is 8k+ players playing in 4k bracket (massive 4k mmr below his rating) andn obviously ruining games for his opponent no different with any account booster. No uproar against this from community who hates booster and smurf???
I find it funny that so many of you justify this "he is helping low level player learn the game!" "low level player must be happy having good player at their game!" pathetic excuse imo. I guess this justifies every other account booster who played in the bracket way below their rating then. I surely don't want playing against random 6k players in my 3k bracket who will shit stomping me most of the times, but if you are happy with that, have fun!
That second part there is what is most disturbing. People who agree with and think like this guy does are what we in the high mmr scene call "perman00b". In other words, a permanent low level player. Nothing they do, no matter how hard or much they practice, they will never get any better. They will always suck. A true "F" student mentality who would rather whine about the curriculum than learn it and succeed. They look for excuses and will make up anything and everything to make themselves feel better about the undeniable fact that they are vastly, hopelessly inferior. All of them are always the same. They have the same illogical emotional responses to the slightest stimuli and are always whiney and salty. They'll get upset about things they're too stupid to know aren't even problems! This overall lack of understanding of how to self-improve as well as how to rise in any competitive scene leads to this kind of failure personality.
Here's how a good player sees getting stomped by a real smurf (not some fake one or some guy just getting a lucky game vs n00bs): ITS AN OPPORTUNITY TO LEARN FROM SOMEONE FAR GREATER THAN YOU.
Those that subscribe to the n00b failure mentality do not see it as an opportunity to learn, they just see it as an opportunity to whine, get illogically emotional, and farther seal themselves in their Cocoon of Retardation. Good players know better than to ever think such inferior thoughts. We know those kinds of things will only be a hinderance to the whole "getting better" process.
This isn't just my opinion as the lower bottom crust of the "high mmr" community, its the opinion of just about every pro player and semi-pro in the entire scene.
The worst thing is the whole Dunning-Krueger effect that slams down on literally all but maybe 5,000 players of DotA in a community that varies around 13 Million total. If you are lower than top 5,000 in the world, you are too inferior of a player to understand how things work. Therefore, you are literally too dumb to realize how dumb you are; yet these people for some reason think they are in a position to judge their superiors and make assessments about plays they can't even understand. As a result of the DK effect, these masses have enormous egos that are completely undeserved. Their egos serve as yet another major block to stop them from ever being any good.
There is another angle to discuss, and that is stream revenue. If you are a streamer, you know that its hard as fk to keep viewership numbers up sometimes when all you're doing is playing the same game over and over again. This is farther complicated by EXTREMELY long queue times when you're high mmr. At 6k level, I experience hours in the day where I can't find a game for over an hour. At the 8k level I would assume this is even worse. When the game finally does match me up, its usually a 5k-ish average or sometimes even 4k-ish average mmr game. Not my choice to be there, the matchmaking actually puts me there! As a person in the lower section of the world's top 5000, if I'm having issues, pros must be having aneurysms. Realize there's much more to this for pros than just a game.
User was banned temporarily because of the usage of "git gud or suicide". Don't tell people to kill themselves.
User was temp banned for this post.
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This whole inferior / superior thing... I don't know man, it doesn't look healthy to me.
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If you are older than 14, I am seriously concerned about your state of mind my friend!
You should probably take a break from Dota (heck, better make it from the Internet in general) and reassess your priorities in life.
Have you ever considered, that there are players out there who have better things to do than spend their time improving in a game? Players who maybe have time for just about 2-3 games a week, which they enjoy with some mates?
Get a grip mate.... you're 6.2k MMR, well done. What else have you achieved in life? 
ffs...
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You know it'll be a good read if the author got temp banned for posting it. 6/10 would not read again
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Wow someone whines about playing with rtz? I think not
That's like complaining Michael Jordan came to your layup fun neighbourhood basketball session a couple time I fucking hope to meet him at 4k mmr one day :D
Although it does make sense a worthless nameless nobody did that, nobody cared so at least he'd post a thinly veiled brag to get attention 
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Holy shit I MIGHT HAVE PLAYED YOU!!! There was this guy that got kills while throwing the game as he did it just for the sake of the kills while not playing his role well.
And then when I was making fun of him trying to get him steamed (let's face it, many of us play dota to procrastinate and relieve frustration, I'm no saint ) he started spamming "Google grundig-blume effect" or Kruger effect or whatever that is in a 4k bracket game post game chat :D
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
just as bad as this shit are the duos who have solo mmrs 2k above their party mmr, and inevitably stomp the "solo" game
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If you sounded a bit more down to earth that could have been a good read. Less of the "superior/inferior/no hope/loosers/brainless" thing and more on the "wrong mindset" stuff.
That being said you are missing the point. Most 3ks are playing because they want to have fun, not because they want to climb. Improving isn't their major objective, which is why they are where they are in the first place. What they want though is an even game, which can't happen if a single shark is in the goldfish pond. Which is why smurfs get flag.
It's funny that you draw the line of "guys with a right to talk about the game" directly below you instead of f.e. top 100, or pro player.
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Just have a look at his posting history.
All he does is talk about how great he is... doesn't post at all in any other threads.
On October 20 2015 00:12 sCCrooked wrote:
As a health professional and International-level athlete,....
.
This guy's need for proving his massive e-penis is so beyond me.
Especially his shit talk about being such a great Broodwar player. Pretty funny. I'd love to play him in either game.
and the funny thing is, he is talking about being high 5k in 2015.... and in 2017 he is 6.2k...
DAMN you're improving at a great rate
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I honestly dont understand how you took a perfectly valid and sensible point.....and managed to do....this....with it :/
you can tell people are a bit funny about mmr/perceived skill when they talk about their max mmr rather than current.
I would not be surprised if the very same attitude you lambaste people below you for having, is the exact reason why you yourself have not progressed any further as a 'good' dota2 player, despite your intent to play to improve.
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I don't wanna turn this in to a deep thing but I think there is a generational difference here too. I'm 29. I play this game for fun. But I have fun getting better. I don't have fun just by mindlessly playing. I don't have fun by losing to brainless players. I think younger people might have different ideas on what fair means?
I understand what the OP means by throwing insults. It's because higher mmr players are better at thinking dota.
I get crushed by better players and learn from it. The most enjoyable and memorable games I've ever had were overcoming those insurmountable odds.
I remember getting first blood on bulldog two years ago because he is infinitely better at dota than me. I remember leading my rag tag team of 4ks to win a battlecup against a 7k streamer. I remember getting RTZ nagad and desperately trying to find a way to win (we couldn't). These are the things that make dota great, not terrible.
It's just part of life. You'll come across people who are just better at something than you. You have to figure out how to get better.
I don't buy the "I play for fun" argument. We all play for fun. It's unhealthy to think of fun being exclusive to "close" matches.
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6.2k is not even near top 1000. You are such a scrub.
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On April 14 2017 03:34 ahw wrote:
I don't wanna turn this in to a deep thing but I think there is a generational difference here too. I'm 29. I play this game for fun. But I have fun getting better. I don't have fun just by mindlessly playing. I don't have fun by losing to brainless players. I think younger people might have different ideas on what fair means?
I understand what the OP means by throwing insults. It's because higher mmr players are better at thinking dota.
I get crushed by better players and learn from it. The most enjoyable and memorable games I've ever had were overcoming those insurmountable odds.
I remember getting first blood on bulldog two years ago because he is infinitely better at dota than me. I remember leading my rag tag team of 4ks to win a battlecup against a 7k streamer. I remember getting RTZ nagad and desperately trying to find a way to win (we couldn't). These are the things that make dota great, not terrible.
It's just part of life. You'll come across people who are just better at something than you. You have to figure out how to get better.
I don't buy the "I play for fun" argument. We all play for fun. It's unhealthy to think of fun being exclusive to "close" matches.
I know a lot of players who play the game off and on. Everyone I know above 5k doesn't. People invest different amounts of times into the game and into getting better and are more or less serious about the game and getting better at it.
I'm not trying to say that everyone can be the next Sumail or RTZ or Jerax with enough work. I'm saying for a lot of people getting better isn't something they order their lives around. Dota is about low commitment fun for them, like playing a casual game. They might think and even give it their all in the game, but the time they invest is actually too low to improve.
Also I doubt that when you faced Bulldog or RTZ you were 3k. The thrill is in trying to overcome the hurdle, the uphill battle that seems barely winnable. There's no chance 3ks overcome a 7k, I've a 6k friend who levels accounts and he 1v5ed every game I've ever played with him below 4.5k. There's no hurdle, there's a wall, they can't get good enough within one match to actually compete.
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I agree with your first two paragraphs. People who don't play as much and don't invest the time in getting better will lose. That's how a game of skill should work.
The last one - yeah, I was Bad then. Much worse at dota than I am now. But I wasn't focused on winning, just making good plays and putting up a good fight.
My point is not every game needs to be winnable to be a rewarding experience. Ever get smashed by a friend in chess, Starcraft, smashbros, football, hockey, baseball, etc? Ever come last place in something? Did you whine about it or did you find the value in it?
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Sure, I've been smashed multiple times in my life and I'd adapt over time. When I played more chess I started by playing against my mentor at work who I beat exactly once in like 30 games (and I cheesed him). I got closer and closer though and I understand what you are referring to.
You play, get crushed, get over it, get crushed again, start to try to imitate what you see, get crushed again and crawl your way up while getting crushed.
You adapt by repetition and copying. I am one of the people who believe that buying accounts improves learning rate, because I started playing dota 2 with a bunch of old dota 1 players who all had prior experience (I didn't) and who would calibrate between 3 and 5k. I adapted to the meta I was playing in and ended up in the bracket too over time.
But playing a smurf once every 100 games doesn't give you a chance to adapt. If you made the 3ks grind a 5k-bracket, a lot of them would improve. But playing against an unrecognized NBA-pro exactly once doesn't lead to improvements. You lack the time to analyze and copy.
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On April 13 2017 00:30 sCuMBaG wrote:Just have a look at his posting history. All he does is talk about how great he is... doesn't post at all in any other threads. Show nested quote +On October 20 2015 00:12 sCCrooked wrote:
As a health professional and International-level athlete,....
. This guy's need for proving his massive e-penis is so beyond me. Especially his shit talk about being such a great Broodwar player. Pretty funny. I'd love to play him in either game. and the funny thing is, he is talking about being high 5k in 2015.... and in 2017 he is 6.2k... DAMN you're improving at a great rate
That's actually pretty much static then, IE: No improvement. 5k in 2015 is probably like 6k now, just like 5k now, is like low/mid 4k. Inflation is real.
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Have you ever considered, that there are players out there who have better things to do than spend their time improving in a game? Players who maybe have time for just about 2-3 games a week, which they enjoy with some mates?
Get a grip mate.... you're 6.2k MMR, well done. What else have you achieved in life?
ffs...
and the funny thing is, he is talking about being high 5k in 2015.... and in 2017 he is 6.2k...
DAMN you're improving at a great rate
Probably a great deal more in life than most. An upper crust percentage much like the position I hold in this playerbase. You act like I had to try hard to get here or something. 6.2k is what happens when I'm playing casually. That guy just hanging out and not improving much? That's me. I fully accept I can not be a pro. I'm simply not good enough and I am too old to be considering another shot at a career in this pro-gaming business. How do I know these things? Simple. Ask any 6k; we are FACING these 8k/9k pros in our games so you people whining about smurfing from people 3k higher than you got nothing on what we deal with. You ever faced the world's 8 & 9k real pros in real games? You will never know what I'm dealing with if you don't have solo matches against/with guys like this in games like this.
Also that climb from low 5k to 6k? Most all people who touch this game will never even make it to 5k to make that climb much less achieve it. Call it inflation if you want, I'm not good and I am very aware of the difference between pros and people like me.
I think he's being ironic when he becomes the dunning-kruger player he's railing against, but the confused humour detracts from the validity of this post.
I can see this as being true. You are the first person to catch onto my act instead of taking my words up front and serious.
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I could have changed things in the post to be more communicative but I feel the original format was best merely because I, along with many other people in this bracket are simply tired of saying the same things over and over again to a group of people that never changes or learns their lesson. We see the same tired complaints being rung up over the same problems in the game. We know valve can be clueless sometimes but they are decently trying to make headway. There recently was a guide on how to improve your mmr systematically I've been taking part in to see if an "old approach" still works written by a booster by the name of "cookies" if you don't know who he or people like "bipdongoe" are, you probably aren't privy to how the game can be so easy to exploit at lower mmrs to us smurfs.
We don't WANT people to stay down there but they don't do things like optimizing farm rotations, they don't do things like re-arranging lane creeps or stack/pulling properly so they don't lose lane farm. These things are considered "must-know" basics and you will get flamed for not executing them almost robotically regularly at higher bracket games. Its not out of malice I take this tone nor any other person who write from a higher mmr perspective. Its from frustrated compassion.
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Bot edit.
User was banned for this post.
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EPT
