• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 00:03
CET 06:03
KST 14:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)6Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns6[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) WardiTV Winter Cup WardiTV Mondays SC2 AI Tournament 2026 OSC Season 13 World Championship
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution
Brood War
General
Potential ASL qualifier breakthroughs? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ I would like to say something about StarCraft BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Psychological Factors That D…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1614 users

You've read all this before.

Blogs > HungrySC2
Post a Reply
HungrySC2
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States191 Posts
October 18 2016 05:04 GMT
#1
I personally have a difficult time playing SC2 now.

I did not play for 2 years. I gave LOTV a chance and here are my observations. The game just keeps getting more and more fragile. In the beginning Blue flame hellion drops were about as fragile as it got. Now there are at least 6 more ways to devastate a worker line with less effort.

1. Hellbat drops
2. Widow mine drops
3. Disrupters
4. Adepts
5. Liberators
6. Early ling drop/ravager bust (I am not salty about these they seem fine to me)
7. Tank a vac

Harass is no longer a tactic, but the entire game plan it seems. The possibility of devastating an entire worker line without having to cut corners is not good game design in my opinion. Cloaked banshees, Blue flame hellions, baneling drops, dark templar, templar drops. They all took significant extra investment to get to and came with significant risk if the harassment failed or the units died. The common harassment options now require no additional tech (that you wouldn't already be getting) and it takes very minimal skill to pull off. either the opponent see's it and is prepared or they are not. Now the other stupid thing about the harassing units is they are incredibly powerful against tier 1 units as well. How do I punish someone investing in harassment if that harassment unit also can demolish a significant number of marines, zerglings, zealots, stalkers etc.

It takes 4 stalkers to kill a liberator. Are you kidding me? That's half the protoss's net worth baby sitting a mineral line.

TvT has devolved into who wants to 1 base hardest.And I thought ZvZ roach vs. roach was tedious.
TvP has devolved into no rush 20. There is literally nothing Terran can do if the protoss plays well. Unless the protoss tries to end it early. Then Terran has a chance to end before 20 minutes.
TvZ is still fun and might not be broken. Although liberators and ultralisks hard counter everything.

I can't speak for the other match-ups because I don't play them, but starcraft has become incredibly frustrating to play. It actually feels like losing to dt's every game now.

Maybe I feel it because I play Terran and terran doesn't have static defense for mineral lines that doesn't cost supply.

Maybe I feel it because I enjoyed the give and take of marine tank before medivac boost and tank pick-up

Maybe I feel it because marines are essentially useless in the first 5 minutes of the game.

Maybe I feel it because I like the concept of map-control and that with map control it was possible to come back from small lapses in attention or small gaps in vision. Now you get punished too hard if you miss anything. It's no longer deal with a ling run-by or a 8 marine drop or some zealots. That was manageable.

Now every time something gets through. It's just as much of a crisis situation as dt's catching you off guard. Usually all you can do is swear under you breath and hope the other guy fuck's up to. Building small advantages is no longer feasible unless you are so good you don't make mistakes. Eventually you're going to mess up and that mistake is going to cost you 15 workers.

So you might as well just embrace the bizarre rts strategy of. "I hope he's not ready for this" close your eyes shift click that unit or boost that medivac and take your hands off the keyboard.

Disclosure: Mid level masters terran 50 games into LOTV.




***
"First say to yourself what you would be; And then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
October 18 2016 06:55 GMT
#2
The best comparison you made is the feeling of losing to DTs.

Every single game in LOTV feels like you're losing to DTs as you described.

HOTS was 10000% a better game than LOTV ever will be. I honestly wish they would revert back the economy to HOTS so that comebacks are more possible.

I would take 3 base deathball/macro over the current "insta-lose to 20 different things" ANY DAY.

LOTV gameplay is infuriating as fuck. At any moment in time you feel like you're vulnerable to being attacked and killed just via build order.

Like you described, that was fine if it was a fringe case - the odd DT game, or the odd blue flame drop game.

But every game is like that, and it's really, really sad =/
Sup
HungrySC2
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States191 Posts
October 18 2016 14:38 GMT
#3
I think I'm going to have to play zerg if I'm going to have any fun.
"First say to yourself what you would be; And then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)
Jan1997
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
Norway671 Posts
October 18 2016 15:08 GMT
#4
What I really hate about LOTV 1v1 is that no matter what there are only 2 outcomes to my games.

Outcome 1: I get to an ideal drone count and absolutely annihilate my opponent.

Outcome 2: I don't get to an ideal drone count and get absolutely annihilated.

I miss the days when matches between two evenly skilled individuals was somewhat close and not just a herp derp i blindcountered you herp derp!
Do something today that your future self will be thankful for.
B-royal
Profile Joined May 2015
Belgium1330 Posts
October 18 2016 15:28 GMT
#5
Brood war still exists. I wasn't satisfied with Sc2 back in 2010, so I switched to Heroes of Newerth. Back when I was doing my master's thesis, I took a break from gaming for a year. The urge to play an RTS again was strong though, but I didn't want to go back to Sc2 as I intensely disliked all the new units introduced in HOTS. I tried out BW and I haven't looked back.

Best game ever.
new BW-player (~E rank fish) twitch.tv/crispydrone || What plays 500 games a season but can't get better? => http://imgur.com/a/pLzf9 <= ||
HornyHerring
Profile Joined March 2011
Papua New Guinea1059 Posts
October 18 2016 20:59 GMT
#6
On October 19 2016 00:08 Jan1997 wrote:
What I really hate about LOTV 1v1 is that no matter what there are only 2 outcomes to my games.

Outcome 1: I get to an ideal drone count and absolutely annihilate my opponent.

Outcome 2: I don't get to an ideal drone count and get absolutely annihilated.

I miss the days when matches between two evenly skilled individuals was somewhat close and not just a herp derp i blindcountered you herp derp!

You,re wrong - there are three possible outcomes: win, lose, draw, huehue.

On a serious note its funny how polarized opinions on LOTV economy are. It's pretty volatile, that's for sure. For some reason I liked WoL the most.
oh, hai
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2303 Posts
October 18 2016 21:30 GMT
#7
Terran is just the weakest race of the game i knew it since 2011 when i quit playing sc2, switched to league of legends, but fuck dat shit waay too one dimentional game.. 4 weeks ago im back playing bw... greatest game ever i wish it was 2003-2010 all over again
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20322 Posts
October 19 2016 00:03 GMT
#8
Terran is just the weakest race of the game i knew it since 2011


2011 was the year of GomTvT
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
October 19 2016 01:10 GMT
#9
On October 19 2016 09:03 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
Terran is just the weakest race of the game i knew it since 2011


2011 was the year of GomTvT


Still UP though for him lolol.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16021 Posts
October 19 2016 16:58 GMT
#10
On October 18 2016 23:38 HungrySC2 wrote:
I think I'm going to have to play zerg if I'm going to have any fun.

I played random for 2 seasons after getting tired of terran gameplay but now I honestly think that terran is the most fun race to play, at least for me.
with mech being viable next patch it might become even better.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
HungrySC2
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States191 Posts
November 07 2016 23:30 GMT
#11
Update

I've played about 100 more games.

The instant die to harassment type games don't happen that often anymore, but it kind of limits the kinds of builds a person can do.

Haven't figured out how to move the zerg around so that it is possible to move out with a marine based army and not get blown up before pushing half way across the map. I kind of feel like I'm going to be getting a second factory just to pump out hellbats and see how that works. Widow mines get blown up by overseers/corrupters, tanks are only good in large numbers and they are hard to get across the map, and liberators are only good in the sweet spot when the zerg can't run you over on the ground and doesn't have enough corrupters in the air... Hellbats seems like the best alternative. 5 rax marine really isn't any better than 4 rax marine if they all die anyways. I don't think I'm used to playing on maps that require different mid-game compositions in order to compete with a zerg.
"First say to yourself what you would be; And then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
SOOP
04:00
SOOP Invitational #1
SHIN vs GuMiho
Cure vs Creator
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft260
RuFF_SC2 232
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4163
GuemChi 1269
Shuttle 552
Larva 138
ZergMaN 27
Noble 24
NaDa 24
Hm[arnc] 21
JulyZerg 20
ajuk12(nOOB) 17
[ Show more ]
Icarus 12
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm261
capcasts107
febbydoto36
League of Legends
JimRising 739
Counter-Strike
fl0m10206
summit1g4375
m0e_tv512
minikerr31
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox467
Other Games
C9.Mang0408
ViBE149
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick43242
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 121
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH153
• practicex 31
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki32
• HerbMon 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift5313
• Lourlo838
• Stunt312
Other Games
• Scarra1379
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
4h 57m
Wardi Open
6h 57m
Big Gabe XPERIONCRAFT
7h 57m
AI Arena Tournament
14h 57m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 4h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 7h
IPSL
1d 14h
DragOn vs Sziky
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
All Star Teams
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W3
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
OSC Championship Season 13
Big Gabe Cup #3
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Nations Cup 2026
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.