• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:55
CEST 19:55
KST 02:55
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview4[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10
Community News
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !7Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site Tulbo's ASL S21 Ro8 Post-Review Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps?
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 Path of Exile OutLive 25 (RTS Game)
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1485 users

You've read all this before.

Blogs > HungrySC2
Post a Reply
HungrySC2
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States191 Posts
October 18 2016 05:04 GMT
#1
I personally have a difficult time playing SC2 now.

I did not play for 2 years. I gave LOTV a chance and here are my observations. The game just keeps getting more and more fragile. In the beginning Blue flame hellion drops were about as fragile as it got. Now there are at least 6 more ways to devastate a worker line with less effort.

1. Hellbat drops
2. Widow mine drops
3. Disrupters
4. Adepts
5. Liberators
6. Early ling drop/ravager bust (I am not salty about these they seem fine to me)
7. Tank a vac

Harass is no longer a tactic, but the entire game plan it seems. The possibility of devastating an entire worker line without having to cut corners is not good game design in my opinion. Cloaked banshees, Blue flame hellions, baneling drops, dark templar, templar drops. They all took significant extra investment to get to and came with significant risk if the harassment failed or the units died. The common harassment options now require no additional tech (that you wouldn't already be getting) and it takes very minimal skill to pull off. either the opponent see's it and is prepared or they are not. Now the other stupid thing about the harassing units is they are incredibly powerful against tier 1 units as well. How do I punish someone investing in harassment if that harassment unit also can demolish a significant number of marines, zerglings, zealots, stalkers etc.

It takes 4 stalkers to kill a liberator. Are you kidding me? That's half the protoss's net worth baby sitting a mineral line.

TvT has devolved into who wants to 1 base hardest.And I thought ZvZ roach vs. roach was tedious.
TvP has devolved into no rush 20. There is literally nothing Terran can do if the protoss plays well. Unless the protoss tries to end it early. Then Terran has a chance to end before 20 minutes.
TvZ is still fun and might not be broken. Although liberators and ultralisks hard counter everything.

I can't speak for the other match-ups because I don't play them, but starcraft has become incredibly frustrating to play. It actually feels like losing to dt's every game now.

Maybe I feel it because I play Terran and terran doesn't have static defense for mineral lines that doesn't cost supply.

Maybe I feel it because I enjoyed the give and take of marine tank before medivac boost and tank pick-up

Maybe I feel it because marines are essentially useless in the first 5 minutes of the game.

Maybe I feel it because I like the concept of map-control and that with map control it was possible to come back from small lapses in attention or small gaps in vision. Now you get punished too hard if you miss anything. It's no longer deal with a ling run-by or a 8 marine drop or some zealots. That was manageable.

Now every time something gets through. It's just as much of a crisis situation as dt's catching you off guard. Usually all you can do is swear under you breath and hope the other guy fuck's up to. Building small advantages is no longer feasible unless you are so good you don't make mistakes. Eventually you're going to mess up and that mistake is going to cost you 15 workers.

So you might as well just embrace the bizarre rts strategy of. "I hope he's not ready for this" close your eyes shift click that unit or boost that medivac and take your hands off the keyboard.

Disclosure: Mid level masters terran 50 games into LOTV.




***
"First say to yourself what you would be; And then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
October 18 2016 06:55 GMT
#2
The best comparison you made is the feeling of losing to DTs.

Every single game in LOTV feels like you're losing to DTs as you described.

HOTS was 10000% a better game than LOTV ever will be. I honestly wish they would revert back the economy to HOTS so that comebacks are more possible.

I would take 3 base deathball/macro over the current "insta-lose to 20 different things" ANY DAY.

LOTV gameplay is infuriating as fuck. At any moment in time you feel like you're vulnerable to being attacked and killed just via build order.

Like you described, that was fine if it was a fringe case - the odd DT game, or the odd blue flame drop game.

But every game is like that, and it's really, really sad =/
Sup
HungrySC2
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States191 Posts
October 18 2016 14:38 GMT
#3
I think I'm going to have to play zerg if I'm going to have any fun.
"First say to yourself what you would be; And then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)
Jan1997
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
Norway671 Posts
October 18 2016 15:08 GMT
#4
What I really hate about LOTV 1v1 is that no matter what there are only 2 outcomes to my games.

Outcome 1: I get to an ideal drone count and absolutely annihilate my opponent.

Outcome 2: I don't get to an ideal drone count and get absolutely annihilated.

I miss the days when matches between two evenly skilled individuals was somewhat close and not just a herp derp i blindcountered you herp derp!
Do something today that your future self will be thankful for.
B-royal
Profile Joined May 2015
Belgium1330 Posts
October 18 2016 15:28 GMT
#5
Brood war still exists. I wasn't satisfied with Sc2 back in 2010, so I switched to Heroes of Newerth. Back when I was doing my master's thesis, I took a break from gaming for a year. The urge to play an RTS again was strong though, but I didn't want to go back to Sc2 as I intensely disliked all the new units introduced in HOTS. I tried out BW and I haven't looked back.

Best game ever.
new BW-player (~E rank fish) twitch.tv/crispydrone || What plays 500 games a season but can't get better? => http://imgur.com/a/pLzf9 <= ||
HornyHerring
Profile Joined March 2011
Papua New Guinea1059 Posts
October 18 2016 20:59 GMT
#6
On October 19 2016 00:08 Jan1997 wrote:
What I really hate about LOTV 1v1 is that no matter what there are only 2 outcomes to my games.

Outcome 1: I get to an ideal drone count and absolutely annihilate my opponent.

Outcome 2: I don't get to an ideal drone count and get absolutely annihilated.

I miss the days when matches between two evenly skilled individuals was somewhat close and not just a herp derp i blindcountered you herp derp!

You,re wrong - there are three possible outcomes: win, lose, draw, huehue.

On a serious note its funny how polarized opinions on LOTV economy are. It's pretty volatile, that's for sure. For some reason I liked WoL the most.
oh, hai
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2356 Posts
October 18 2016 21:30 GMT
#7
Terran is just the weakest race of the game i knew it since 2011 when i quit playing sc2, switched to league of legends, but fuck dat shit waay too one dimentional game.. 4 weeks ago im back playing bw... greatest game ever i wish it was 2003-2010 all over again
ἡ τῆς Νεμέσεως τάξις
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20327 Posts
October 19 2016 00:03 GMT
#8
Terran is just the weakest race of the game i knew it since 2011


2011 was the year of GomTvT
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
October 19 2016 01:10 GMT
#9
On October 19 2016 09:03 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
Terran is just the weakest race of the game i knew it since 2011


2011 was the year of GomTvT


Still UP though for him lolol.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16062 Posts
October 19 2016 16:58 GMT
#10
On October 18 2016 23:38 HungrySC2 wrote:
I think I'm going to have to play zerg if I'm going to have any fun.

I played random for 2 seasons after getting tired of terran gameplay but now I honestly think that terran is the most fun race to play, at least for me.
with mech being viable next patch it might become even better.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
HungrySC2
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States191 Posts
November 07 2016 23:30 GMT
#11
Update

I've played about 100 more games.

The instant die to harassment type games don't happen that often anymore, but it kind of limits the kinds of builds a person can do.

Haven't figured out how to move the zerg around so that it is possible to move out with a marine based army and not get blown up before pushing half way across the map. I kind of feel like I'm going to be getting a second factory just to pump out hellbats and see how that works. Widow mines get blown up by overseers/corrupters, tanks are only good in large numbers and they are hard to get across the map, and liberators are only good in the sweet spot when the zerg can't run you over on the ground and doesn't have enough corrupters in the air... Hellbats seems like the best alternative. 5 rax marine really isn't any better than 4 rax marine if they all die anyways. I don't think I'm used to playing on maps that require different mid-game compositions in order to compete with a zerg.
"First say to yourself what you would be; And then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
15:00
Last Chance Qualifier
uThermal694
RotterdaM635
SteadfastSC150
Liquipedia
SC Evo League
13:00
StarCraft Evolution League #22
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
uThermal 683
RotterdaM 606
SteadfastSC 156
BRAT_OK 56
MindelVK 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 5502
Mini 601
firebathero 354
ggaemo 266
Dewaltoss 128
Backho 51
Hyun 36
Aegong 30
Rock 30
scan(afreeca) 24
Dota 2
monkeys_forever413
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m2366
Fnx 2088
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor284
Liquid`Hasu144
Other Games
Grubby3520
FrodaN1901
B2W.Neo781
Beastyqt616
Hui .237
KnowMe119
UpATreeSC36
sas.Sziky18
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick4481
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 441
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 22 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 47
• HeavenSC 27
• Adnapsc2 3
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Airneanach61
• blackmanpl 9
• Michael_bg 7
• FirePhoenix2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1879
• imaqtpie1157
• TFBlade636
Other Games
• WagamamaTV586
• Shiphtur263
Upcoming Events
BSL
1h 5m
Artosis vs TerrOr
spx vs StRyKeR
Replay Cast
6h 5m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
16h 5m
RSL Revival
16h 5m
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
18h 5m
ByuN vs Rogue
Solar vs Ryung
Zoun vs Percival
Cure vs SHIN
BSL
1d 1h
Dewalt vs DragOn
Aether vs Jimin
GSL
1d 14h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 16h
Soma vs Leta
Wardi Open
1d 18h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 22h
[ Show More ]
OSC
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Light vs Flash
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W6
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.