• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 06:28
CET 12:28
KST 20:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation10Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada Craziest Micro Moments Of All Time?
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
What happened to TvZ on Retro? FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BW General Discussion Brood War web app to calculate unit interactions [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1721 users

You've read all this before.

Blogs > HungrySC2
Post a Reply
HungrySC2
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States191 Posts
October 18 2016 05:04 GMT
#1
I personally have a difficult time playing SC2 now.

I did not play for 2 years. I gave LOTV a chance and here are my observations. The game just keeps getting more and more fragile. In the beginning Blue flame hellion drops were about as fragile as it got. Now there are at least 6 more ways to devastate a worker line with less effort.

1. Hellbat drops
2. Widow mine drops
3. Disrupters
4. Adepts
5. Liberators
6. Early ling drop/ravager bust (I am not salty about these they seem fine to me)
7. Tank a vac

Harass is no longer a tactic, but the entire game plan it seems. The possibility of devastating an entire worker line without having to cut corners is not good game design in my opinion. Cloaked banshees, Blue flame hellions, baneling drops, dark templar, templar drops. They all took significant extra investment to get to and came with significant risk if the harassment failed or the units died. The common harassment options now require no additional tech (that you wouldn't already be getting) and it takes very minimal skill to pull off. either the opponent see's it and is prepared or they are not. Now the other stupid thing about the harassing units is they are incredibly powerful against tier 1 units as well. How do I punish someone investing in harassment if that harassment unit also can demolish a significant number of marines, zerglings, zealots, stalkers etc.

It takes 4 stalkers to kill a liberator. Are you kidding me? That's half the protoss's net worth baby sitting a mineral line.

TvT has devolved into who wants to 1 base hardest.And I thought ZvZ roach vs. roach was tedious.
TvP has devolved into no rush 20. There is literally nothing Terran can do if the protoss plays well. Unless the protoss tries to end it early. Then Terran has a chance to end before 20 minutes.
TvZ is still fun and might not be broken. Although liberators and ultralisks hard counter everything.

I can't speak for the other match-ups because I don't play them, but starcraft has become incredibly frustrating to play. It actually feels like losing to dt's every game now.

Maybe I feel it because I play Terran and terran doesn't have static defense for mineral lines that doesn't cost supply.

Maybe I feel it because I enjoyed the give and take of marine tank before medivac boost and tank pick-up

Maybe I feel it because marines are essentially useless in the first 5 minutes of the game.

Maybe I feel it because I like the concept of map-control and that with map control it was possible to come back from small lapses in attention or small gaps in vision. Now you get punished too hard if you miss anything. It's no longer deal with a ling run-by or a 8 marine drop or some zealots. That was manageable.

Now every time something gets through. It's just as much of a crisis situation as dt's catching you off guard. Usually all you can do is swear under you breath and hope the other guy fuck's up to. Building small advantages is no longer feasible unless you are so good you don't make mistakes. Eventually you're going to mess up and that mistake is going to cost you 15 workers.

So you might as well just embrace the bizarre rts strategy of. "I hope he's not ready for this" close your eyes shift click that unit or boost that medivac and take your hands off the keyboard.

Disclosure: Mid level masters terran 50 games into LOTV.




***
"First say to yourself what you would be; And then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
October 18 2016 06:55 GMT
#2
The best comparison you made is the feeling of losing to DTs.

Every single game in LOTV feels like you're losing to DTs as you described.

HOTS was 10000% a better game than LOTV ever will be. I honestly wish they would revert back the economy to HOTS so that comebacks are more possible.

I would take 3 base deathball/macro over the current "insta-lose to 20 different things" ANY DAY.

LOTV gameplay is infuriating as fuck. At any moment in time you feel like you're vulnerable to being attacked and killed just via build order.

Like you described, that was fine if it was a fringe case - the odd DT game, or the odd blue flame drop game.

But every game is like that, and it's really, really sad =/
Sup
HungrySC2
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States191 Posts
October 18 2016 14:38 GMT
#3
I think I'm going to have to play zerg if I'm going to have any fun.
"First say to yourself what you would be; And then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)
Jan1997
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
Norway671 Posts
October 18 2016 15:08 GMT
#4
What I really hate about LOTV 1v1 is that no matter what there are only 2 outcomes to my games.

Outcome 1: I get to an ideal drone count and absolutely annihilate my opponent.

Outcome 2: I don't get to an ideal drone count and get absolutely annihilated.

I miss the days when matches between two evenly skilled individuals was somewhat close and not just a herp derp i blindcountered you herp derp!
Do something today that your future self will be thankful for.
B-royal
Profile Joined May 2015
Belgium1330 Posts
October 18 2016 15:28 GMT
#5
Brood war still exists. I wasn't satisfied with Sc2 back in 2010, so I switched to Heroes of Newerth. Back when I was doing my master's thesis, I took a break from gaming for a year. The urge to play an RTS again was strong though, but I didn't want to go back to Sc2 as I intensely disliked all the new units introduced in HOTS. I tried out BW and I haven't looked back.

Best game ever.
new BW-player (~E rank fish) twitch.tv/crispydrone || What plays 500 games a season but can't get better? => http://imgur.com/a/pLzf9 <= ||
HornyHerring
Profile Joined March 2011
Papua New Guinea1059 Posts
October 18 2016 20:59 GMT
#6
On October 19 2016 00:08 Jan1997 wrote:
What I really hate about LOTV 1v1 is that no matter what there are only 2 outcomes to my games.

Outcome 1: I get to an ideal drone count and absolutely annihilate my opponent.

Outcome 2: I don't get to an ideal drone count and get absolutely annihilated.

I miss the days when matches between two evenly skilled individuals was somewhat close and not just a herp derp i blindcountered you herp derp!

You,re wrong - there are three possible outcomes: win, lose, draw, huehue.

On a serious note its funny how polarized opinions on LOTV economy are. It's pretty volatile, that's for sure. For some reason I liked WoL the most.
oh, hai
XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2288 Posts
October 18 2016 21:30 GMT
#7
Terran is just the weakest race of the game i knew it since 2011 when i quit playing sc2, switched to league of legends, but fuck dat shit waay too one dimentional game.. 4 weeks ago im back playing bw... greatest game ever i wish it was 2003-2010 all over again
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20321 Posts
October 19 2016 00:03 GMT
#8
Terran is just the weakest race of the game i knew it since 2011


2011 was the year of GomTvT
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
October 19 2016 01:10 GMT
#9
On October 19 2016 09:03 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
Terran is just the weakest race of the game i knew it since 2011


2011 was the year of GomTvT


Still UP though for him lolol.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16008 Posts
October 19 2016 16:58 GMT
#10
On October 18 2016 23:38 HungrySC2 wrote:
I think I'm going to have to play zerg if I'm going to have any fun.

I played random for 2 seasons after getting tired of terran gameplay but now I honestly think that terran is the most fun race to play, at least for me.
with mech being viable next patch it might become even better.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
HungrySC2
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States191 Posts
November 07 2016 23:30 GMT
#11
Update

I've played about 100 more games.

The instant die to harassment type games don't happen that often anymore, but it kind of limits the kinds of builds a person can do.

Haven't figured out how to move the zerg around so that it is possible to move out with a marine based army and not get blown up before pushing half way across the map. I kind of feel like I'm going to be getting a second factory just to pump out hellbats and see how that works. Widow mines get blown up by overseers/corrupters, tanks are only good in large numbers and they are hard to get across the map, and liberators are only good in the sweet spot when the zerg can't run you over on the ground and doesn't have enough corrupters in the air... Hellbats seems like the best alternative. 5 rax marine really isn't any better than 4 rax marine if they all die anyways. I don't think I'm used to playing on maps that require different mid-game compositions in order to compete with a zerg.
"First say to yourself what you would be; And then do what you have to do. (Epictetus)
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Group B
Classic vs CureLIVE!
Creator vs TriGGeR
Crank 998
Tasteless567
ComeBackTV 540
IndyStarCraft 101
Rex86
3DClanTV 52
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Crank 998
Tasteless 567
IndyStarCraft 101
Rex 86
Harstem 60
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 18518
Britney 15479
Calm 5080
Rain 4227
Jaedong 2306
Bisu 1876
Horang2 1175
Flash 848
firebathero 414
Pusan 403
[ Show more ]
Zeus 205
Hyun 174
EffOrt 147
JYJ82
hero 66
sSak 62
Rush 61
Backho 55
Soulkey 55
ZerO 53
ToSsGirL 48
JulyZerg 45
Killer 45
Barracks 32
Free 31
Mind 29
Sea.KH 28
Movie 21
Bale 14
Hm[arnc] 9
Icarus 7
Noble 7
Dota 2
XcaliburYe117
Counter-Strike
fl0m2278
shoxiejesuss309
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King65
Other Games
summit1g19316
FrodaN3050
B2W.Neo750
ceh9406
crisheroes363
Pyrionflax264
KnowMe168
Fuzer 133
NeuroSwarm33
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick529
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 11
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 29
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota217
League of Legends
• Stunt1481
Other Games
• WagamamaTV207
Upcoming Events
Kung Fu Cup
32m
GuMiho vs MaNa
herO vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs TBD
WardiTV Korean Royale
32m
CranKy Ducklings
22h 32m
RSL Revival
22h 32m
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
1d
Cure vs Reynor
IPSL
1d 5h
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
BSL 21
1d 8h
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 22h
RSL Revival
1d 22h
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
2 days
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
BSL: GosuLeague
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
BSL: GosuLeague
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
RSL Revival: Season 3
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.