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sc2 problems that probably won't be fixed in lotv

Blogs > Jimmy Raynor
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Jimmy Raynor
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
902 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-30 06:56:37
September 30 2015 06:54 GMT
#1
My list of annoying stuff that probably won't be fixed since it has not been already:

Economic harass too good
- units like widow mine, hellions, oracle, adepts are simply too effective and can outright win the game if left unchecked for few seconds. I understand the need to have some option to harass the enemy but the power of such units seems to be too much.

Units that become useless - this relates to the previous point. Some unit are just useless beyond a strict role they fulfill - let's take the prime example of such unit - the reaper. You make a single reaper to scout/try to kill some workers and then never make another one trough the whole game. What is the point of such unit? Wouldn't it be better for the game if there were few units like this and more units that require skillful use but can remain viable for a longer period of the game instead of the first 3 minutes.

Rock paper scissors - some units hard counter too well other units like marauder-roach/stalker; immortal-siege tank; lurker-bio and so on. I am not sure if this is such a big problem but reducing at least a bit the level of effectiveness of certain units against other units could lead to more skillful displays of micro/positioning when fighting against certain unit types instead of just accepting they are too weak against them and will melt anyway

Unit clumping (AOE too strong) - AOE abilities are simply too strong when combined with the unit clumping that is present in the game

Battles are too fast - the unit clumping is a big issue regarding this point. You may not look at your army for 2 seconds and can melt instantly. 1 wrong click of your units and you may clump them and they dissolve from an AOE spell in an instant

Coin toss openings - this is mostly regarding protoss and terran (especially protoss since they have the most options). There is the threat of dts/blink stalkers/fast stargate/adept all in; banshee/hellions/widow mine drops - there are simply too many build orders that if you don't prepare exactly right for you will probably lose instantly

It seems like these issues will not be resolved with lotv since they have not been already and there is not enough time until release. Also, making such drastic changes after release is probably not an option.

What I hope for is if Blizzard start working on WCIV next, they take these lessons from SC2 and apply them while still building the core of the game instead of letting them become a problem that would require major overhaul and rebalance that is most likely not plausible for post game release as it seems to be the case for SC2

*
NeThZOR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa7387 Posts
September 30 2015 11:28 GMT
#2
These issues have existed since beta and still aren't corrected so I don't see Blizz changing the fundamental formula for their moneymaker now.
SuperNova - 2015 | SKT1 fan for years | Dear, FlaSh, PartinG, Soulkey, Naniwa
Bojas
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands2397 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-30 17:35:28
September 30 2015 17:32 GMT
#3
Economic harass too good - units like widow mine, hellions, oracle, adepts are simply too effective and can outright win the game if left unchecked for few seconds. I understand the need to have some option to harass the enemy but the power of such units seems to be too much.


This is about design, if it was considered a problem by Blizzard they wouldn't have made it like this.

Units that become useless - this relates to the previous point. Some unit are just useless beyond a strict role they fulfill - let's take the prime example of such unit - the reaper. You make a single reaper to scout/try to kill some workers and then never make another one trough the whole game. What is the point of such unit? Wouldn't it be better for the game if there were few units like this and more units that require skillful use but can remain viable for a longer period of the game instead of the first 3 minutes.


Again a design thing and not really an actual problem. Reapers are very good at what they do, if you want them to be good in other situations too you create a broken unit, which is only acceptable if they significantly nerf other Terran units.

The rest is a problem, I agree, but not something that can be fixed on time (would probably require a complete Protoss redesign from scrap). I might be biased as a Terran but I don't think Terran cheese has the same coinflip element as Protoss cheese.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10673 Posts
September 30 2015 19:40 GMT
#4
So sad but true, I think they should just make SC2BW
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
SlammerIV
Profile Joined December 2013
United States526 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-01 02:59:33
October 01 2015 02:58 GMT
#5
Guys, Brood Wars had its own issues for one thing.
The game is fast paced but tbh I do not feel like harass is too strong. Terren perspective here.
I almost never lose to oracles, unless I make I large error in defense or my build order/scouting like any other strategy I do not feel like the oracle is two hard to defend, terren has turrets, mines and good marine placement and even if u are unready you can still pull the workers and usually you won't lose more than 8 or so. Dito other harass tools, there are always things you can do and in standard games you really shouldn't be taking damage.

I wonder how many people who keep talking about how great Brood War is have actually played it recently??
I got c- recently on iccup and believe me there are plenty of ways to lose very, very, fast. talk about coin toss? what about proxy gates zvp, bunker rush zvt on 4 player map if you don't scout and terren gets bunker down outside your vision its pretty much GG. Harrass too strong? try playing vs strom drops and reaver drops. Hellions causing you pain? Have you played vs mech terren throwing vulture across the map like its 1999? battles happened quickly in bw as well, you make 1 mistake vs terren siege line and goodby 4 control groups of lings and lurkers.

Useless units?? hello dark archon hello scout!!

the point I am trying to make is that there is no perfect RTS game, there will never be a game that satisfies every single person. BW was a great game, sc2 is also imo a great game, I still enjoy it immensely. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I had to get this off my chest after seeing so many "SC2 literally the worst rts game ever created posts"

sry for rant
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
October 02 2015 21:10 GMT
#6
On October 01 2015 02:32 Bojas wrote:
Again a design thing and not really an actual problem. Reapers are very good at what they do, if you want them to be good in other situations too you create a broken unit, which is only acceptable if they significantly nerf other Terran units.

It's not a problem per se, but if the design of things like Reapers weren't so clunky the game could be so much better for it. It's not so much about changing the Reaper as it is, but about having a unit that isn't so one-dimensional and time-sensitive. Imagine having a unit you could build in the early game to poke and prod just like you would with a reaper, only you can incorporate it into your overall strategy and continue building them throughout the game, instead of a one-and-done scouting unit. Look at the Reaper we have now, then consider the Vulture as it was in BW. Something not being a problem by strict definition is no reason to stop trying to improve it.

Also the strength of harassment at present is such that it creates an attacker's advantage, and is immensely frustrating to lose to. Moreover, it robs the specialness of a player pulling off good harass, it's not interesting to watch anymore, it's too commonplace, in fact you'd be a fool not to expect it. If harassment wasn't so strong that it's basically forced, and if those units were actually good at something besides harassing, you'd have less frustrating gameplay and less one-dimensional units, opening up wonderous new possibilities.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Kingsky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Singapore298 Posts
October 03 2015 14:36 GMT
#7
Another aspect they cannot fix is the butchered story-telling.

Kerrigan was a conniving bitch that garnered hatred from fenix fans and Raynor swore to kill her....
Why do people hate the Colossus? Because the Colossus is like banksters from Wall Street: “too big to fail”. - TheDwF
fanby
Profile Joined October 2015
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-06 01:26:09
October 05 2015 23:44 GMT
#8
Hey guys i run a Starcraft youtube channel and i would fix the community not the game per say the Starcraft 2 is vary closed mined win it come to new content creators. I have seen it first hand over on r/Starcraft. i am new at cast so my cast won't be prefect but all i am getting is hate mail about how bad i am and please stop so in my opining it not the game that need fixed it the community if you don't believe me just look up FanBoy on reddit or go to my youtube channel www.youtube.com and you will see what i am saying this post is not mint to advertise me it just me venting some steam that all thanks

User was warned for this post
The youtubeber that got a way
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