• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 03:02
CET 09:02
KST 17:02
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
MBCGame Torrents Foreign Brood War BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions Which season is the best in ASL?
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread The Perfect Game
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Big Programming Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
Physical Exertion During Gam…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1306 users

sc2 problems that probably won't be fixed in lotv

Blogs > Jimmy Raynor
Post a Reply
Jimmy Raynor
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
902 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-30 06:56:37
September 30 2015 06:54 GMT
#1
My list of annoying stuff that probably won't be fixed since it has not been already:

Economic harass too good
- units like widow mine, hellions, oracle, adepts are simply too effective and can outright win the game if left unchecked for few seconds. I understand the need to have some option to harass the enemy but the power of such units seems to be too much.

Units that become useless - this relates to the previous point. Some unit are just useless beyond a strict role they fulfill - let's take the prime example of such unit - the reaper. You make a single reaper to scout/try to kill some workers and then never make another one trough the whole game. What is the point of such unit? Wouldn't it be better for the game if there were few units like this and more units that require skillful use but can remain viable for a longer period of the game instead of the first 3 minutes.

Rock paper scissors - some units hard counter too well other units like marauder-roach/stalker; immortal-siege tank; lurker-bio and so on. I am not sure if this is such a big problem but reducing at least a bit the level of effectiveness of certain units against other units could lead to more skillful displays of micro/positioning when fighting against certain unit types instead of just accepting they are too weak against them and will melt anyway

Unit clumping (AOE too strong) - AOE abilities are simply too strong when combined with the unit clumping that is present in the game

Battles are too fast - the unit clumping is a big issue regarding this point. You may not look at your army for 2 seconds and can melt instantly. 1 wrong click of your units and you may clump them and they dissolve from an AOE spell in an instant

Coin toss openings - this is mostly regarding protoss and terran (especially protoss since they have the most options). There is the threat of dts/blink stalkers/fast stargate/adept all in; banshee/hellions/widow mine drops - there are simply too many build orders that if you don't prepare exactly right for you will probably lose instantly

It seems like these issues will not be resolved with lotv since they have not been already and there is not enough time until release. Also, making such drastic changes after release is probably not an option.

What I hope for is if Blizzard start working on WCIV next, they take these lessons from SC2 and apply them while still building the core of the game instead of letting them become a problem that would require major overhaul and rebalance that is most likely not plausible for post game release as it seems to be the case for SC2

*
NeThZOR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa7387 Posts
September 30 2015 11:28 GMT
#2
These issues have existed since beta and still aren't corrected so I don't see Blizz changing the fundamental formula for their moneymaker now.
SuperNova - 2015 | SKT1 fan for years | Dear, FlaSh, PartinG, Soulkey, Naniwa
Bojas
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands2397 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-30 17:35:28
September 30 2015 17:32 GMT
#3
Economic harass too good - units like widow mine, hellions, oracle, adepts are simply too effective and can outright win the game if left unchecked for few seconds. I understand the need to have some option to harass the enemy but the power of such units seems to be too much.


This is about design, if it was considered a problem by Blizzard they wouldn't have made it like this.

Units that become useless - this relates to the previous point. Some unit are just useless beyond a strict role they fulfill - let's take the prime example of such unit - the reaper. You make a single reaper to scout/try to kill some workers and then never make another one trough the whole game. What is the point of such unit? Wouldn't it be better for the game if there were few units like this and more units that require skillful use but can remain viable for a longer period of the game instead of the first 3 minutes.


Again a design thing and not really an actual problem. Reapers are very good at what they do, if you want them to be good in other situations too you create a broken unit, which is only acceptable if they significantly nerf other Terran units.

The rest is a problem, I agree, but not something that can be fixed on time (would probably require a complete Protoss redesign from scrap). I might be biased as a Terran but I don't think Terran cheese has the same coinflip element as Protoss cheese.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10686 Posts
September 30 2015 19:40 GMT
#4
So sad but true, I think they should just make SC2BW
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
SlammerIV
Profile Joined December 2013
United States526 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-01 02:59:33
October 01 2015 02:58 GMT
#5
Guys, Brood Wars had its own issues for one thing.
The game is fast paced but tbh I do not feel like harass is too strong. Terren perspective here.
I almost never lose to oracles, unless I make I large error in defense or my build order/scouting like any other strategy I do not feel like the oracle is two hard to defend, terren has turrets, mines and good marine placement and even if u are unready you can still pull the workers and usually you won't lose more than 8 or so. Dito other harass tools, there are always things you can do and in standard games you really shouldn't be taking damage.

I wonder how many people who keep talking about how great Brood War is have actually played it recently??
I got c- recently on iccup and believe me there are plenty of ways to lose very, very, fast. talk about coin toss? what about proxy gates zvp, bunker rush zvt on 4 player map if you don't scout and terren gets bunker down outside your vision its pretty much GG. Harrass too strong? try playing vs strom drops and reaver drops. Hellions causing you pain? Have you played vs mech terren throwing vulture across the map like its 1999? battles happened quickly in bw as well, you make 1 mistake vs terren siege line and goodby 4 control groups of lings and lurkers.

Useless units?? hello dark archon hello scout!!

the point I am trying to make is that there is no perfect RTS game, there will never be a game that satisfies every single person. BW was a great game, sc2 is also imo a great game, I still enjoy it immensely. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I had to get this off my chest after seeing so many "SC2 literally the worst rts game ever created posts"

sry for rant
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
October 02 2015 21:10 GMT
#6
On October 01 2015 02:32 Bojas wrote:
Again a design thing and not really an actual problem. Reapers are very good at what they do, if you want them to be good in other situations too you create a broken unit, which is only acceptable if they significantly nerf other Terran units.

It's not a problem per se, but if the design of things like Reapers weren't so clunky the game could be so much better for it. It's not so much about changing the Reaper as it is, but about having a unit that isn't so one-dimensional and time-sensitive. Imagine having a unit you could build in the early game to poke and prod just like you would with a reaper, only you can incorporate it into your overall strategy and continue building them throughout the game, instead of a one-and-done scouting unit. Look at the Reaper we have now, then consider the Vulture as it was in BW. Something not being a problem by strict definition is no reason to stop trying to improve it.

Also the strength of harassment at present is such that it creates an attacker's advantage, and is immensely frustrating to lose to. Moreover, it robs the specialness of a player pulling off good harass, it's not interesting to watch anymore, it's too commonplace, in fact you'd be a fool not to expect it. If harassment wasn't so strong that it's basically forced, and if those units were actually good at something besides harassing, you'd have less frustrating gameplay and less one-dimensional units, opening up wonderous new possibilities.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Kingsky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Singapore298 Posts
October 03 2015 14:36 GMT
#7
Another aspect they cannot fix is the butchered story-telling.

Kerrigan was a conniving bitch that garnered hatred from fenix fans and Raynor swore to kill her....
Why do people hate the Colossus? Because the Colossus is like banksters from Wall Street: “too big to fail”. - TheDwF
fanby
Profile Joined October 2015
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-06 01:26:09
October 05 2015 23:44 GMT
#8
Hey guys i run a Starcraft youtube channel and i would fix the community not the game per say the Starcraft 2 is vary closed mined win it come to new content creators. I have seen it first hand over on r/Starcraft. i am new at cast so my cast won't be prefect but all i am getting is hate mail about how bad i am and please stop so in my opining it not the game that need fixed it the community if you don't believe me just look up FanBoy on reddit or go to my youtube channel www.youtube.com and you will see what i am saying this post is not mint to advertise me it just me venting some steam that all thanks

User was warned for this post
The youtubeber that got a way
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 18h 58m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech129
SortOf 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 165
Soma 160
Shine 115
JulyZerg 114
zelot 66
Shinee 41
NotJumperer 41
ToSsGirL 37
Sharp 16
Noble 12
[ Show more ]
Hm[arnc] 11
Dota 2
singsing1834
NeuroSwarm62
febbydoto10
League of Legends
JimRising 555
C9.Mang0330
Reynor30
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor113
Other Games
summit1g8312
Mew2King3412
crisheroes324
XaKoH 269
Happy2
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 46
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• HappyZerGling142
Upcoming Events
Korean StarCraft League
18h 58m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 1h
WardiTV 2025
1d 3h
SC Evo League
1d 4h
IPSL
1d 8h
Dewalt vs ZZZero
BSL 21
1d 11h
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
OSC
1d 13h
Solar vs Creator
ByuN vs Gerald
Percival vs Babymarine
Moja vs Krystianer
EnDerr vs ForJumy
sebesdes vs Nicoract
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV 2025
2 days
OSC
2 days
[ Show More ]
IPSL
2 days
Bonyth vs KameZerg
BSL 21
2 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
StarCraft2.fi
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV 2025
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
PiGosaur Monday
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
5 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV 2025
6 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-30
RSL Revival: Season 3
Light HT

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.