• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:49
CET 04:49
KST 12:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
2026 KongFu Cup Announcement3BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled11Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains15Weekly Cups (March 2-8): ByuN overcomes PvT block4GSL CK - New online series18
StarCraft 2
General
Blizzard Classic Cup - Tastosis announced as captains BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Terran AddOns placement
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 KongFu Cup Announcement [GSL CK] Team Maru vs. Team herO StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 516 Specter of Death Mutation # 515 Together Forever Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL 22 Map Contest — Submissions OPEN to March 10 ASL21 General Discussion Are you ready for ASL 21? Hype VIDEO Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] Open Qualifiers & Ladder Tours IPSL Spring 2026 is here! ASL Season 21 Qualifiers March 7-8
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread No Man's Sky (PS4 and PC)
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Mexico's Drug War Russo-Ukrainian War Thread NASA and the Private Sector
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion General nutrition recommendations Cricket [SPORT] TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2025 users

How to fix SC2 problems

Blogs > LastWish
Post a Reply
LastWish
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
2015 Posts
July 18 2015 13:12 GMT
#1
Thought about it and I think that the main points LOTV needs to solve are:
1. Death ball plays
2. Lack of interesting units that would promote unique plays

So rather than suggesting specific fixes to these problems I would like to point out a direction that is in my opinion optimal for solving these problems.

Death ball plays

Some time ago I re-played all the 90' old RTS which when I was younger I struggled to beat.
One of those games was KKND2, a game where similarly to StarCraft there are 3 races.
The game is however pretty imbalanced, but there are some lessons to be learnt anyway.

I realized that if I try to just mass a lot of units a press a-move I don't automatically win.
You see in KKND2 there are a lot of units and even static defences with a solid splash damage.

So rather than a-moving a huge army you are rewarded for tactical plays.
Doing drops to strategic location, attacking weakly defended locations, small air groups...

If you think about it in SC-Broodwar compared to SC2 you had a lot of powerful splash damage units and abilities - Siege Tanks, Spider mines, Irradiate, Lurkers, Plague, Reavers, Psionic Storm, Corsairs, Valkyries, Devourers.
Now in SC2 there are a few aswell, but their use is somewhat specialized.
Siege Tanks aren't very popular, you occasionaly see some cool Heat seeking missiles used, zerg has the fungal which is more of mass stun than damage spell, so you are left with like a few units/abilities that do splash and are used Colossus, Thor, widow mine and storm.

So no wonder that protoss deathballs are so strong, there is no zerg or terran ground splash to counter.
No wonder that protoss struggles with mass multalisks, there is no solid AOE to counter them.

Cool units

Blizzard has taken a path to design cool units.
What makes a cool unit:
- attack/abilities/usage that is somewhat innovative
- micro potential -> skill ceiling

But what I see in SC2 micro is just hit & run and positioning.

I would like to take another game example here.
I used to play Dota for years and later on I switched to League of Legends.

If you look at LoL ability design you see a pattern - abilities with cast/spawn delay, abilities which need to be aimed, projectiles which travel at speed, abilities which do damage over time to area...
Basically the abilities need to be aimed correctly by the caster, require some sort of prediction of the enemy behavior. But the enemy still has choices to dodge, avoid or reduce the damage taken.

If we look at Broodwar again we will see that a lot of abilities are exactly like that:
Irradiate damage can be reduced if you move the affected unit away from the group.
Emp can be slightly dodged.
Spider mines can be slighly dodged also.
Defiler plague cannot be dodged however you may retreat to safety and repair or regenerate(if you aren't protoss that is).
Lurker spines can be dodged!
Revear shots damage can be greatly reduced if you split or move away your units.
Storms can be completely dodged or damage reduced if you move away.

At the same time SC2 has:
Widow mines cannot be dodged.
Emp is instant and cannot be dodged.
Fungal growth after HOTS can finally be dodged although chain fungal still cannot be microed against.
Storm can be slighlty avoided however compared to SC1 storm it is instant spawn with almost instant damage spell so much less avoidable.
Colossus damage cannot be avoided.

Only heat seeking missile can be dodged!

Conclusion
SC2 LOTV needs much much more splash damage in units or in abilities.
SC2 LOTV needs abilities that have spawn delays, require aiming or do damage over long periods of time in order to introduce new forms of micro and increase the skill ceiling.







*
- It's all just treason - They bring me down with their lies - Don't know the reason - My life is fire and ice -
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
July 18 2015 14:55 GMT
#2
If they put cast delay in SC2 or animation delay I'll lose my fucking shit. I still think that the main problem has to do with the unit pathing and the near infinite control groups that automatically clump up units.

Tanks used to be really good in BW and there are many PvT games from back in the day that were made interesting by those insane maginot lines of tanks that cut the map in two with mines and vultures in front and hovering science vessels on top for EMPs which landed on arbiters and armies which had a substantial effect on the outcome of the fight. The tank lines would span 3-4+ screens and would defend the terran economy and map control.

Similarly the armies being scattered and constantly fighting in the center of the map for control and information meant that psi storms could be very powerful. Right now, psi storms are weak as hell because if they did decent damage they would be too powerful since many armies are naturally dense and expensive.

I think that Blizzard needs to do things that promote the spreading out of units. Control groups of 24-30 and maybe more for zerglings, powerful positional play, psi storms that will allow small groups of Protoss units to deal a lot of damage to large groups of enemy units rather than being overrun for free and similar mechanics for other races. Which doesn't mean you should always be able to get away. There's too much of an emphasis that is put on harassing units that should be able to go in and then get away and that is their only role, and too little importance put on just getting map control in a way that isn't having coercive force where if you get caught by a bigger army you'll lose more and you'll eventually lose the game.

And although I haven't been watching much SC2 lately and I don't know where any of these issues stand really, I still believe that the colossus is the embodiment of what I feel makes SC2 boring for me (and this comes from a protoss player). It walks over units, so it reinforces the deathball, while not really dissuading the other player from playing in a way which foreshadows an all in engagement of deathballs. So all the side conflicts tend to be shy, and limited, using very powerful and fast yet incredibly boring harasses with units that can die and will be rebuilt anyway.
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Clubfan
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
Germany913 Posts
July 18 2015 15:10 GMT
#3
On July 18 2015 22:12 LastWish wrote:
[...]
Widow mines cannot be dodged.
[...]

Actually, blink stalkers can dodge them, also proper splitting can minimize the damage by quite a lot. Imo that's one of the coolest things we see in SC2 these days as it separates good players from the best.
LiquipediaLickyPiddy manager
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 11m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 176
NeuroSwarm 157
Nina 154
Ketroc 49
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 15508
Noble 98
NaDa 76
Jaeyun 42
Icarus 11
Dota 2
LuMiX1
League of Legends
JimRising 660
Counter-Strike
taco 919
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox502
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor165
Other Games
summit1g12555
WinterStarcraft16
deth2
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3911
ComeBackTV 159
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 65
• davetesta24
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki14
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo957
Other Games
• Scarra2378
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6h 11m
RSL Revival
6h 11m
ByuN vs SHIN
Maru vs Krystianer
WardiTV Team League
8h 11m
Patches Events
13h 11m
BSL
16h 11m
GSL
1d 4h
Wardi Open
1d 8h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 13h
OSC
1d 20h
WardiTV Team League
2 days
[ Show More ]
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
WardiTV Team League
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
WardiTV Team League
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-03-13
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
BSL Season 22
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Elite League 2026
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
NationLESS Cup
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.