• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:46
CEST 22:46
KST 05:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists12[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy21
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers11Maestros of the Game 2 announced32026 GSL Tour plans announced10Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid20
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail MaNa leaves Team Liquid Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists 2026 GSL Tour plans announced
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power
Brood War
General
Pros React To: Tulbo in Ro.16 Group A ASL21 General Discussion [BSL22] RO32 Group Stage mca64Launcher - New Version with StarCraft: Remast BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Korean KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2 [ASL21] Ro16 Group B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro16 Group A
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Reappraising The Situation T…
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2511 users

How to fix SC2 problems

Blogs > LastWish
Post a Reply
LastWish
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
2015 Posts
July 18 2015 13:12 GMT
#1
Thought about it and I think that the main points LOTV needs to solve are:
1. Death ball plays
2. Lack of interesting units that would promote unique plays

So rather than suggesting specific fixes to these problems I would like to point out a direction that is in my opinion optimal for solving these problems.

Death ball plays

Some time ago I re-played all the 90' old RTS which when I was younger I struggled to beat.
One of those games was KKND2, a game where similarly to StarCraft there are 3 races.
The game is however pretty imbalanced, but there are some lessons to be learnt anyway.

I realized that if I try to just mass a lot of units a press a-move I don't automatically win.
You see in KKND2 there are a lot of units and even static defences with a solid splash damage.

So rather than a-moving a huge army you are rewarded for tactical plays.
Doing drops to strategic location, attacking weakly defended locations, small air groups...

If you think about it in SC-Broodwar compared to SC2 you had a lot of powerful splash damage units and abilities - Siege Tanks, Spider mines, Irradiate, Lurkers, Plague, Reavers, Psionic Storm, Corsairs, Valkyries, Devourers.
Now in SC2 there are a few aswell, but their use is somewhat specialized.
Siege Tanks aren't very popular, you occasionaly see some cool Heat seeking missiles used, zerg has the fungal which is more of mass stun than damage spell, so you are left with like a few units/abilities that do splash and are used Colossus, Thor, widow mine and storm.

So no wonder that protoss deathballs are so strong, there is no zerg or terran ground splash to counter.
No wonder that protoss struggles with mass multalisks, there is no solid AOE to counter them.

Cool units

Blizzard has taken a path to design cool units.
What makes a cool unit:
- attack/abilities/usage that is somewhat innovative
- micro potential -> skill ceiling

But what I see in SC2 micro is just hit & run and positioning.

I would like to take another game example here.
I used to play Dota for years and later on I switched to League of Legends.

If you look at LoL ability design you see a pattern - abilities with cast/spawn delay, abilities which need to be aimed, projectiles which travel at speed, abilities which do damage over time to area...
Basically the abilities need to be aimed correctly by the caster, require some sort of prediction of the enemy behavior. But the enemy still has choices to dodge, avoid or reduce the damage taken.

If we look at Broodwar again we will see that a lot of abilities are exactly like that:
Irradiate damage can be reduced if you move the affected unit away from the group.
Emp can be slightly dodged.
Spider mines can be slighly dodged also.
Defiler plague cannot be dodged however you may retreat to safety and repair or regenerate(if you aren't protoss that is).
Lurker spines can be dodged!
Revear shots damage can be greatly reduced if you split or move away your units.
Storms can be completely dodged or damage reduced if you move away.

At the same time SC2 has:
Widow mines cannot be dodged.
Emp is instant and cannot be dodged.
Fungal growth after HOTS can finally be dodged although chain fungal still cannot be microed against.
Storm can be slighlty avoided however compared to SC1 storm it is instant spawn with almost instant damage spell so much less avoidable.
Colossus damage cannot be avoided.

Only heat seeking missile can be dodged!

Conclusion
SC2 LOTV needs much much more splash damage in units or in abilities.
SC2 LOTV needs abilities that have spawn delays, require aiming or do damage over long periods of time in order to introduce new forms of micro and increase the skill ceiling.







*
- It's all just treason - They bring me down with their lies - Don't know the reason - My life is fire and ice -
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
July 18 2015 14:55 GMT
#2
If they put cast delay in SC2 or animation delay I'll lose my fucking shit. I still think that the main problem has to do with the unit pathing and the near infinite control groups that automatically clump up units.

Tanks used to be really good in BW and there are many PvT games from back in the day that were made interesting by those insane maginot lines of tanks that cut the map in two with mines and vultures in front and hovering science vessels on top for EMPs which landed on arbiters and armies which had a substantial effect on the outcome of the fight. The tank lines would span 3-4+ screens and would defend the terran economy and map control.

Similarly the armies being scattered and constantly fighting in the center of the map for control and information meant that psi storms could be very powerful. Right now, psi storms are weak as hell because if they did decent damage they would be too powerful since many armies are naturally dense and expensive.

I think that Blizzard needs to do things that promote the spreading out of units. Control groups of 24-30 and maybe more for zerglings, powerful positional play, psi storms that will allow small groups of Protoss units to deal a lot of damage to large groups of enemy units rather than being overrun for free and similar mechanics for other races. Which doesn't mean you should always be able to get away. There's too much of an emphasis that is put on harassing units that should be able to go in and then get away and that is their only role, and too little importance put on just getting map control in a way that isn't having coercive force where if you get caught by a bigger army you'll lose more and you'll eventually lose the game.

And although I haven't been watching much SC2 lately and I don't know where any of these issues stand really, I still believe that the colossus is the embodiment of what I feel makes SC2 boring for me (and this comes from a protoss player). It walks over units, so it reinforces the deathball, while not really dissuading the other player from playing in a way which foreshadows an all in engagement of deathballs. So all the side conflicts tend to be shy, and limited, using very powerful and fast yet incredibly boring harasses with units that can die and will be rebuilt anyway.
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Clubfan
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
Germany913 Posts
July 18 2015 15:10 GMT
#3
On July 18 2015 22:12 LastWish wrote:
[...]
Widow mines cannot be dodged.
[...]

Actually, blink stalkers can dodge them, also proper splitting can minimize the damage by quite a lot. Imo that's one of the coolest things we see in SC2 these days as it separates good players from the best.
LiquipediaLickyPiddy manager
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 14m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 553
elazer 208
ProTech124
UpATreeSC 109
CosmosSc2 20
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 17764
Calm 2815
ggaemo 231
Dewaltoss 124
firebathero 121
Soulkey 102
SilentControl 7
Dota 2
ODPixel138
canceldota119
febbydoto17
capcasts14
League of Legends
Reynor59
Counter-Strike
byalli409
Super Smash Bros
PPMD44
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu393
Other Games
summit1g9046
tarik_tv5103
FrodaN847
B2W.Neo496
shahzam295
mouzStarbuck263
C9.Mang0174
Trikslyr137
ArmadaUGS108
RotterdaM69
ZombieGrub38
QueenE37
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV524
Counter-Strike
PGL111
StarCraft 2
angryscii 34
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 24 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta25
• Reevou 10
• Adnapsc2 10
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 30
• RayReign 28
• HerbMon 21
• Azhi_Dahaki17
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2985
• WagamamaTV896
League of Legends
• TFBlade2121
• Doublelift859
Other Games
• imaqtpie1052
• Scarra623
• Shiphtur192
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 14m
Escore
13h 14m
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
14h 14m
OSC
18h 14m
Big Brain Bouts
19h 14m
MaNa vs goblin
Scarlett vs Spirit
Serral vs herO
Korean StarCraft League
1d 6h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 13h
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 14h
IPSL
1d 19h
WolFix vs nOmaD
dxtr13 vs Razz
BSL
1d 22h
UltrA vs KwarK
Gosudark vs cavapoo
dxtr13 vs HBO
Doodle vs Razz
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
2 days
Ladder Legends
2 days
BSL
2 days
StRyKeR vs rasowy
Artosis vs Aether
JDConan vs OyAji
Hawk vs izu
IPSL
2 days
JDConan vs TBD
Aegong vs rasowy
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Bisu vs Ample
Jaedong vs Flash
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Barracks vs Leta
Royal vs Light
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-15
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W3
Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.