• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:44
CEST 00:44
KST 07:44
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)0Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview5[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double0Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !18Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0
StarCraft 2
General
herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Weekly Cups (May 11-17): Classic wins double Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 2 (2026) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! $1,400 SEL Season 3 Ladder Invitational GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) $5,000 WardiTV Spring Championship 2026
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 526 Rubber and Glue Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes
Brood War
General
Lights Ro.8 Review (asl s21) 25 Years Since Brood War Patch 1.08 vespene.gg — BW replays in browser BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Semifinals B [BSL22] RO8 Bracket Stage + Another TieBreaker [ASL21] Ro8 Day 4
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne ZeroSpace Megathread War of Dots, 2026 minimalst RTS Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread YouTube Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
ETHEREUM RECOVERY ASSISTANCE streaming software Strange computer issues (software)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1342 users

How to fix SC2 problems

Blogs > LastWish
Post a Reply
LastWish
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
2015 Posts
July 18 2015 13:12 GMT
#1
Thought about it and I think that the main points LOTV needs to solve are:
1. Death ball plays
2. Lack of interesting units that would promote unique plays

So rather than suggesting specific fixes to these problems I would like to point out a direction that is in my opinion optimal for solving these problems.

Death ball plays

Some time ago I re-played all the 90' old RTS which when I was younger I struggled to beat.
One of those games was KKND2, a game where similarly to StarCraft there are 3 races.
The game is however pretty imbalanced, but there are some lessons to be learnt anyway.

I realized that if I try to just mass a lot of units a press a-move I don't automatically win.
You see in KKND2 there are a lot of units and even static defences with a solid splash damage.

So rather than a-moving a huge army you are rewarded for tactical plays.
Doing drops to strategic location, attacking weakly defended locations, small air groups...

If you think about it in SC-Broodwar compared to SC2 you had a lot of powerful splash damage units and abilities - Siege Tanks, Spider mines, Irradiate, Lurkers, Plague, Reavers, Psionic Storm, Corsairs, Valkyries, Devourers.
Now in SC2 there are a few aswell, but their use is somewhat specialized.
Siege Tanks aren't very popular, you occasionaly see some cool Heat seeking missiles used, zerg has the fungal which is more of mass stun than damage spell, so you are left with like a few units/abilities that do splash and are used Colossus, Thor, widow mine and storm.

So no wonder that protoss deathballs are so strong, there is no zerg or terran ground splash to counter.
No wonder that protoss struggles with mass multalisks, there is no solid AOE to counter them.

Cool units

Blizzard has taken a path to design cool units.
What makes a cool unit:
- attack/abilities/usage that is somewhat innovative
- micro potential -> skill ceiling

But what I see in SC2 micro is just hit & run and positioning.

I would like to take another game example here.
I used to play Dota for years and later on I switched to League of Legends.

If you look at LoL ability design you see a pattern - abilities with cast/spawn delay, abilities which need to be aimed, projectiles which travel at speed, abilities which do damage over time to area...
Basically the abilities need to be aimed correctly by the caster, require some sort of prediction of the enemy behavior. But the enemy still has choices to dodge, avoid or reduce the damage taken.

If we look at Broodwar again we will see that a lot of abilities are exactly like that:
Irradiate damage can be reduced if you move the affected unit away from the group.
Emp can be slightly dodged.
Spider mines can be slighly dodged also.
Defiler plague cannot be dodged however you may retreat to safety and repair or regenerate(if you aren't protoss that is).
Lurker spines can be dodged!
Revear shots damage can be greatly reduced if you split or move away your units.
Storms can be completely dodged or damage reduced if you move away.

At the same time SC2 has:
Widow mines cannot be dodged.
Emp is instant and cannot be dodged.
Fungal growth after HOTS can finally be dodged although chain fungal still cannot be microed against.
Storm can be slighlty avoided however compared to SC1 storm it is instant spawn with almost instant damage spell so much less avoidable.
Colossus damage cannot be avoided.

Only heat seeking missile can be dodged!

Conclusion
SC2 LOTV needs much much more splash damage in units or in abilities.
SC2 LOTV needs abilities that have spawn delays, require aiming or do damage over long periods of time in order to introduce new forms of micro and increase the skill ceiling.







*
- It's all just treason - They bring me down with their lies - Don't know the reason - My life is fire and ice -
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
July 18 2015 14:55 GMT
#2
If they put cast delay in SC2 or animation delay I'll lose my fucking shit. I still think that the main problem has to do with the unit pathing and the near infinite control groups that automatically clump up units.

Tanks used to be really good in BW and there are many PvT games from back in the day that were made interesting by those insane maginot lines of tanks that cut the map in two with mines and vultures in front and hovering science vessels on top for EMPs which landed on arbiters and armies which had a substantial effect on the outcome of the fight. The tank lines would span 3-4+ screens and would defend the terran economy and map control.

Similarly the armies being scattered and constantly fighting in the center of the map for control and information meant that psi storms could be very powerful. Right now, psi storms are weak as hell because if they did decent damage they would be too powerful since many armies are naturally dense and expensive.

I think that Blizzard needs to do things that promote the spreading out of units. Control groups of 24-30 and maybe more for zerglings, powerful positional play, psi storms that will allow small groups of Protoss units to deal a lot of damage to large groups of enemy units rather than being overrun for free and similar mechanics for other races. Which doesn't mean you should always be able to get away. There's too much of an emphasis that is put on harassing units that should be able to go in and then get away and that is their only role, and too little importance put on just getting map control in a way that isn't having coercive force where if you get caught by a bigger army you'll lose more and you'll eventually lose the game.

And although I haven't been watching much SC2 lately and I don't know where any of these issues stand really, I still believe that the colossus is the embodiment of what I feel makes SC2 boring for me (and this comes from a protoss player). It walks over units, so it reinforces the deathball, while not really dissuading the other player from playing in a way which foreshadows an all in engagement of deathballs. So all the side conflicts tend to be shy, and limited, using very powerful and fast yet incredibly boring harasses with units that can die and will be rebuilt anyway.
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Clubfan
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
Germany913 Posts
July 18 2015 15:10 GMT
#3
On July 18 2015 22:12 LastWish wrote:
[...]
Widow mines cannot be dodged.
[...]

Actually, blink stalkers can dodge them, also proper splitting can minimize the damage by quite a lot. Imo that's one of the coolest things we see in SC2 these days as it separates good players from the best.
LiquipediaLickyPiddy manager
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 16m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
uThermal 443
SpeCial 130
PiGStarcraft110
StarCraft: Brood War
Artosis 458
ajuk12(nOOB) 5
League of Legends
Doublelift5580
Counter-Strike
Fnx 2075
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox765
ChuDatz26
PPMD13
Other Games
summit1g9138
Grubby4195
Pyrionflax191
C9.Mang0167
ViBE78
Livibee55
Trikslyr48
CosmosSc2 37
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV175
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• musti20045 34
• Hupsaiya 27
• mYiSmile13
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21285
Other Games
• imaqtpie1369
• Shiphtur315
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
1h 16m
GSL
10h 46m
Cure vs sOs
SHIN vs ByuN
Replay Cast
1d 1h
GSL
1d 10h
Classic vs Solar
GuMiho vs Zoun
WardiTV Spring Champion…
1d 12h
Replay Cast
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs SHIN
Rogue vs Bunny
[ Show More ]
BSL
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Flash vs Soma
RSL Revival
4 days
BSL
4 days
Patches Events
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Universe Titan Cup
5 days
Rogue vs Percival
Wardi Open
5 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W7
2026 GSL S1
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
YSL S3
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
Heroes Pulsing #1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
Bounty Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.