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Of course, by ‘we’ I mean the pro players/teams. I just feel like the Dota Meta we got this year was the closest one to the ‘perfect’ metagame. EDIT and by 'solve' I mean an extremely efficent way of winning Dota matches.
What is a perfect metagame anyway? The way I see it: a metagame in which the path to victory is the most effective one. Call it push strategy, call it face rush strategy or even call it boring (I like more calling it a perfect execution of Dota). It won games, and that my friends, it’s everything. A lot of this magnificent metagame can be awarded, IMHO to Vici Gaming and Evil Genuises, geniuses indeed. Of course, we can’t let the TI4 champion, Newbee, out of the mention, since they showed an almost perfect gameplay during the finals against Vici Gaming. Granted, Vici did not perform as expected during the match.
Life is not fair, and a Dota match is no exception. A football (soccer) saying goes ‘the matches are not deserved, they are won’… you can apply the same concept to what happened to Dota this year.
Dota is a very complex game, but when you explain how to win a Dota game to a friend that doesn’t know the game, you say: “Well you have to destroy the enemy Ancient, that thing in the middle of their base”.
Dota can be a marvelously simple, yet complex game.
Teams understood that, yes some better than others (Na’vi, Alliance in the west lost their once ‘two horse race’ spot), and started to focus on how to win the game. Offlane Jakiro, all-mighty Death Prophets, tempo controller Brewmaster and buildings (and heroes) wrecker Lycans were all around the place. Not only heroes; the way of playing a match was also very, very different from two years ago. Objective Dota become the norm, because winning is the norm, because money is in the line (with a pretty uncomfortable payment delay).
Dota advanced in 2014; the metagame was a sing of it. Icefrog noticed this and introduced changes, radical changes, with the hope of letting the solution to Dota slip away from the players as water sneaks through the fingers.
Did it work? Will it work? Our dear players and team will let us know.
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I sort of disagree. I think that the evidence for this not being true can be seen in the updates - a lot of the time that the 'meta' shifts it is a result of a hero getting only slightly buffed and becoming a flavor hero making people practice it en masse and as a result heroes that play well against it also come into fashion which leads to heroes against those heroes getting popular and so on. I feel like as we get closer to 'solving' the game we'll start seeing more and more drastic and easily observed changes. Like if Void suddenly got a skill removed I think it would be fair to say "Holy shit that hero was probably OP because of that huge nerf", but with how things are currently he can lose like 5-10 movespeed and suddenly wouldn't be picked at all for example.
While I agree that radical changes are made to 'spice things up' and keep players from reaching a stagnant point in the game - I think that what you're talking about is a 'stagnant' point not a 'solving' of the game.
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I solved doto ages ago.
Shoulda asked me.
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On December 19 2014 00:59 Steveling wrote:
I solved doto ages ago.
Shoulda asked me.
plz be my mentor.
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On December 19 2014 00:42 harodihg wrote:
While I agree that radical changes are made to 'spice things up' and keep players from reaching a stagnant point in the game - I think that what you're talking about is a 'stagnant' point not a 'solving' of the game.
Different opinions can result in better discussions, glad to know you think different. Maybe the word 'solved' is not the best approach.
Stagnant makes me feel like teams are being lazy, that's why I used 'solve'. Teams have found what wins the more efficent way. You can say that happens every patch because of the top picks and ban heroes, but in the last patches there were not only nerfs and buffs to heroes: big changes in the gameplay (creep balance, map changes and bounties) are for me the signal that the game needed some change. Not just adjustments.
TY for replying
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Dota being solved is great and all, but with no passion from the players it doesn't mean a whole lot.
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On December 19 2014 03:45 uberxD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 00:42 harodihg wrote:
While I agree that radical changes are made to 'spice things up' and keep players from reaching a stagnant point in the game - I think that what you're talking about is a 'stagnant' point not a 'solving' of the game. Different opinions can result in better discussions, glad to know you think different. Maybe the word 'solved' is not the best approach. Stagnant makes me feel like teams are being lazy, that's why I used 'solve'. Teams have found what wins the more efficent way. You can say that happens every patch because of the top picks and ban heroes, but in the last patches there were not only nerfs and buffs to heroes: big changes in the gameplay (creep balance, map changes and bounties) are for me the signal that the game needed some change. Not just adjustments. TY for replying
It isn't solved and on some level it is due to laziness which goes hand in hand with complacency.
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this year is not 2010, sorry
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Dota should never be solvable. Strategies should keep evolving and shifting as new things are tried, as some succeed and some fail. If it's solved, it becomes stagnant and it dies.
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lol dota isnt some math puzzle that people can mindlessly say 2 + 2 = 4 and not be called an idiot by the majority of the worlds population. its a game without limits or boundaries, things that people have said will never change or the game will be ruined/broken haven been changed multiple times. some of these changes are more suitable for some while others disagree with them or dont enjoy them as much.
whats fun about dota is that there are different 'feels' or seasons imo in which the game takes on a distinct favor towards a set of hero's which constantly changes after some time in the limelight. this is normally due to patches and obviously pro player popularity that determines which hero's are picked more often. dota will never be "balanced" neither will LoL or SC2 and as such you could say "we" will never "solve" dota or ever even come "close" to it.
dota is a sandbox, not some math equation
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On December 20 2014 00:57 BongChambers wrote:
lol dota isnt some math puzzle that people can mindlessly say 2 + 2 = 4 and not be called an idiot by the majority of the worlds population. its a game without limits or boundaries, things that people have said will never change or the game will be ruined/broken haven been changed multiple times. some of these changes are more suitable for some while others disagree with them or dont enjoy them as much.
whats fun about dota is that there are different 'feels' or seasons imo in which the game takes on a distinct favor towards a set of hero's which constantly changes after some time in the limelight. this is normally due to patches and obviously pro player popularity that determines which hero's are picked more often. dota will never be "balanced" neither will LoL or SC2 and as such you could say "we" will never "solve" dota or ever even come "close" to it.
dota is a sandbox, not some math equation
Say that to the guy who coded how heroes take damage..
Edit: Like the universe, there is an equation which describes everything.
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On December 20 2014 00:57 BongChambers wrote:
lol dota isnt some math puzzle that people can mindlessly say 2 + 2 = 4 and not be called an idiot by the majority of the worlds population. its a game without limits or boundaries, things that people have said will never change or the game will be ruined/broken haven been changed multiple times. some of these changes are more suitable for some while others disagree with them or dont enjoy them as much.
whats fun about dota is that there are different 'feels' or seasons imo in which the game takes on a distinct favor towards a set of hero's which constantly changes after some time in the limelight. this is normally due to patches and obviously pro player popularity that determines which hero's are picked more often. dota will never be "balanced" neither will LoL or SC2 and as such you could say "we" will never "solve" dota or ever even come "close" to it.
dota is a sandbox, not some math equation
Please excuse me if my metaphor is not clear: obviously Dota can't be solved as football can't be solved, for example.
By sovle, I mean that it feels like pros found the most efficent way to win Dota, which is why I think we have the metagame and the playstyle we have nowadays.
I belive Icefrog has introduced big changes to Dota, not only hero buffs/nerfs, because he sees this almost 'solved' (or 'efficent) way of playing Dota.
I hope I explained myself better.
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I genuinely have no idea what you're trying to say.
Also solving games is bad, or at least solved games are bad for competition. It means there's no variation possible because the optimal path is known. I assume that's not what you're glad about, but I really can't tell.
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Solved games are something like tic tac toe or checkers. I wouldn't call chess a solved game. So Dota is nowhere near solved. But I get what you mean op. Random games aren't that entertaining and its much more fun to watxh players reaching for that apex gameplay (while not actually being there). Throwing radical changes in to spice things up may keep some from not getting bored fromndoing the same thing, but its turning me off frankly. If chess can maintain it why nit Dota? We should be looking to polish the game with every patch not throw the baby with the bathtub just to hype up the crowd IMO. /end rant
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EPT
