EPT
Normally I’d post this in the dating thread, seeing that the Blogs section is usually reserved for weepies and tragedies of silence. However, your post contained so much that was simply wrong that I felt a proper exegesis was necessary. Most relationship problems are manifestations of identity and character issues, but they are usually moderate flaws that lead to limited damage; your issues are both self-sabotaging and dangerous for anyone unlucky to meet you. Introspection and intellectual masturbation are often synonymous, and I don’t expect that you’ll finish reading this a changed man. The parts that assassinate your character might be particularly hard to swallow. But I guarantee it will be less painful and humiliating than what your potential girlfriend went through.
This weekend turned out to be the most dissapointing in a long time...
So, for some time I travel a certain train almost every saturday, which includes me waiting for the next train at a certain station for about 20-40min. There is this girl who also hast to wait at that stationa and then proceeds to share 20 of the 25min to my final destination and as it seems she also does this every saturday. When helping her with her luggage we get to talk to eachother. We get along very well and it turns out that we share a lot of interests. We proceed to see eachother on this saturday occasion, talk and have a lot of fun in general.
Little more than 2 month ago, she admitted that she doesnt have to take this train every saturday. The first time where I helped her with her luggage she was going to a concert, thats it. The following meetings were her deliberately taking this train again/waiting at the station just to meet me. Even though we shared contact informations pretty quickly and texted/talked mor frequently, she still felt the desire to meet me in person. Basicly, she chased me pretty hard, so hard that even I managed to get an idea about her being interested in me. We talk a bit and decide to meet the following day to work this out. The result is that we both agree to give this thing a shot, even though I tell her that I will take things slowly since I still dont really know her. So we get to know each other more in the following 2.x months and basicly the whole things turns more and more into a relationship even though I didnt want to admit it.
So, for some time I travel a certain train almost every saturday, which includes me waiting for the next train at a certain station for about 20-40min. There is this girl who also hast to wait at that stationa and then proceeds to share 20 of the 25min to my final destination and as it seems she also does this every saturday. When helping her with her luggage we get to talk to eachother. We get along very well and it turns out that we share a lot of interests. We proceed to see eachother on this saturday occasion, talk and have a lot of fun in general.
Little more than 2 month ago, she admitted that she doesnt have to take this train every saturday. The first time where I helped her with her luggage she was going to a concert, thats it. The following meetings were her deliberately taking this train again/waiting at the station just to meet me. Even though we shared contact informations pretty quickly and texted/talked mor frequently, she still felt the desire to meet me in person. Basicly, she chased me pretty hard, so hard that even I managed to get an idea about her being interested in me. We talk a bit and decide to meet the following day to work this out. The result is that we both agree to give this thing a shot, even though I tell her that I will take things slowly since I still dont really know her. So we get to know each other more in the following 2.x months and basicly the whole things turns more and more into a relationship even though I didnt want to admit it.
The first thing I notice is a lack of description. You are a complete stranger to 99% of Team Liquid posters, yet you use overly ambiguous qualifiers to describe which trains you take; an ordinary person would say “the/my train” as an automatic response. The entire recollection is bland. There are no meaningful details, which is what the human mind usually uses to contextualize a memory. There are no meaningful acts, which buffer the impact of memory by the emotion of the moment. Tellingly, there’s only one sentence that momentarily perks up the story: the mild astonishment that a girl would take action out of interest in you.
What is passed over in silence? There’s no mention of initial lust or increased attention in the first meeting. There’s no hint of attraction in these two paragraphs at all. Despite her confession, there was no meaningful reciprocation present. You use workmanlike phrase to describe the process: “work this out”, “give this thing a shot”, “get to know each other more”. This trait wouldn’t be distressing in itself except there’s no counterbalancing force to temper it. No sensation of despair, melancholy, anger or joy accompanies the text. What kind of relationship story is this supposed to be again?
On some subconscious level, you recognize this disparity between the narrative and what’s actually being said. Otherwise, the follow-up would be conspicuous.
Lets take a minute to check wha we got here:
A young women, highly interested in me, enough to chase me really hard.
Shes plain gorgeous, especially her eyes. Its literatly the first time where a women managed to leave an impression on em just by her looks. And besides her being a real beauty shes so with class and decency.
We share a bunch of interests
Shes got a very decent taste of music (you know how hard it is to find a female anyone who listens to metal and still is able to appreciate good hiphop? And in the terms of the female metalhead: still dont feel the need to impale herself with as much iron as possible))
She got humor, especially my type of humor
She is eloquent and able to give good contra to my banter
Sounds a bit to good, does it?
A young women, highly interested in me, enough to chase me really hard.
Shes plain gorgeous, especially her eyes. Its literatly the first time where a women managed to leave an impression on em just by her looks. And besides her being a real beauty shes so with class and decency.
We share a bunch of interests
Shes got a very decent taste of music (you know how hard it is to find a female anyone who listens to metal and still is able to appreciate good hiphop? And in the terms of the female metalhead: still dont feel the need to impale herself with as much iron as possible))
She got humor, especially my type of humor
She is eloquent and able to give good contra to my banter
Sounds a bit to good, does it?
I read a lot of posts where guys unintentionally reduce their love interests to a set of appreciable qualities. Most of that is childish narcissism and it is alleviated by time and maturity. That can’t be the case here. You go out of your way to let the reader know it’s on purpose. The ostensible reason is to inform a potential reader that the circumstance was great. She’s beautiful, funny, has a similar sense of humor, etc.
What is the point of this though? This is the third paragraph in a post that attempts to be a chronological retelling. It completely interrupts the flow of the story. It also clashes terribly with the tone of the previous two paragraphs. First she’s just a girl that you happen to get along with, then she transforms into some paradigm of perfection. First she’s barely worth mentioning as a friend, now she’s totally irresistible. What a sleight of hand! This brings up the question, what interests does this part serve in the overall post?
This is a preemptive justification and an attempt to seek validation. On some level you know deep down that the relationship had no foundation. You had no interest in a girl that had plenty of interest to spare, and you took no moves on your own initiative (we this, we that, we everything) to make the relationship go forward. At the same time, that creates an incongruity in the narrative: why are you going out with a girl you have no interest? If only you could articulate reasons, then you could convince yourself it was inevitable. Simultaneously it would be impossible for others for criticize you for that flaw. Instead they would sympathize with you. Hot girl with good taste in music and conforming to social standards of refinement, what a dream she must’ve been! All is forgiven in the face of such an opportunity.
So you switch gears within the narrative. The first section is a quaint little encounter that might lead to a quaint little relationship. Most people would be happy with that, and most people would prefer the quaint little breakup. You’re different though. The whole affair has to be a tragedy from your perspective. There must be pathos and grand sweeping feelings involved. Therefore there must be a tragic element that can't be controlled or solved.
Yes it does. First of all, she only did secondary school, which isnt wrong by default. I went to secondary school first before doing my A-levels, but it just shows. Intellectual she is just not on my level, even though she definitely isnt stupid, its just that certain ways of thinking arent present, dont really know how to describe it. The biggest problem however is she is almost 5 years younger than me. That in itself wont have to be a problem - at a certain point you age mostly by experiences, not by time, but I got plenty of those.
I really dont know how to fully explain this without sounding like an arrogant prick, basicly I am older than her, mentally and intellecutal. Its like a 21 year old dating a 16 year old, they can share a lot but in the end, they are both most likely in different phases of their life and the 16 year old wont be on a level playing field with the 21 old. Since I know that by now, it would just be wrong to continue to date her, since I basicly would take advantage of her and I would feel weird. Also, I just cant see getting past this in the long term. At the moment it would be fine, but it wont work out in the long rund and therefore I dont want this to become more serious. Also we came to a point where she started to share some very personal stuff with me, so I had to stop this. Not only do I fear that she would regret sharing this stuff when we break up, but also it then would be my turn to let her see more of my inside and thats just something she wont be able to deal with properly/I dont want to burden her with.
I really dont know how to fully explain this without sounding like an arrogant prick, basicly I am older than her, mentally and intellecutal. Its like a 21 year old dating a 16 year old, they can share a lot but in the end, they are both most likely in different phases of their life and the 16 year old wont be on a level playing field with the 21 old. Since I know that by now, it would just be wrong to continue to date her, since I basicly would take advantage of her and I would feel weird. Also, I just cant see getting past this in the long term. At the moment it would be fine, but it wont work out in the long rund and therefore I dont want this to become more serious. Also we came to a point where she started to share some very personal stuff with me, so I had to stop this. Not only do I fear that she would regret sharing this stuff when we break up, but also it then would be my turn to let her see more of my inside and thats just something she wont be able to deal with properly/I dont want to burden her with.
What’s interesting here is the order of the judgments. Notice that you didn’t save the revelation about secondary school as the confirmation of a suspicion; you state it first and claim her lack of aptitude naturally showed as a side note. Yet after meeting over the course of two months, such a deficiency didn’t show up in your initial recollection. Even though you claim it is of the utmost importance to you, it didn’t prevent you from suggesting the possibility of a relationship. It didn’t stop you from getting closer in the passive sense, of stopping you from going along with her suggestions. It didn’t stop you from being tentative friends with her in the first place. If I assume the most charitable interpretation (that you are telling a plain fact), then why didn't you simply tell her this when she told you her interest? Surely at that point you've been able to tell whether she would fulfill that need in a relationship.
The age comparison is disingenuous for two reasons. First, you admit later on she is 21 and you are 26 so she shares much more in experiences with you than the 16-21 distinction would imply. This comparison is also intentionally pejorative. A 21-year-old would be young but still able to engage in a fulfilling relationship depending on her maturity; a 16-year-old’s maturity would necessarily be called into question. You are stacking the deck against her, whether you mean to or not.
So I met her this weekend and explained everything to her as good as possible just as expected she was devastated. From the beginning I told her that I want to take this slow to get to know her better, when we where dating, I told her that I feel very strongly for her but that I still need time. The whole break up as well as it reasons didnt came out of the blue but it still was expected to be very hard. I also definetly have to talk to her again because I guess she got a few things wrong. Also I know from her sister that she really has some stupid ideas like "maybe he broke up with me because we didnt had sex" which I have to get out of her head for sure to prevent future drama/stupid behaviour.
My reading of this passage is that she’s pretty, she’s stupid, and you’re a strong + wise paternal influence. But I’m only a self-trained critic. Others may have equally valid interpretations. It’s a pity you didn’t study Wallace Stevens. If you did you’d know that the more times one repeats an assertion, the less convincing it becomes.
You may believe you are the hero of this story. From your perspective, you saved her from a terrible ordeal by gently turning down her advances. But this is from your perspective. An outside reading might come to this conclusion:
- You deny her an equal standing through some dubious evaluation of her intellect.Since you were unable to adequately describe the problem, how could you be so sure that it was an intellectual disparity that disturbed you in the first place? You believe that her intellectual impoverishment was the catalyst, but fail to realize the greater irony: no healthy relationship could come from a union which one party actively snubs the other.
- You deny her the agency to have input into the relationship. Since she is 5 years younger and judged to be mentally inferior, you feel compelled to make decisions for her own good. Simply because she doesn't fit your criteria for intelligence doesn't mean she is incapable of determining good actions from bad ones. But you explicitly stated that was your impression.
- You deny her the right to express legitimate sorrow. This is the ultimate showing of condescension. Not only does her bewilderment take a back seat to your navel-gazing regret, it’s categorized as hysteria. It’s now foolish and therefore in need of correction. You reject her dignity, her autonomy, and now you want to steal her tears. How curious that despite your best efforts, she initially remained unconvinced that the gulf in appreciation was the real reason.
It should be concerning that as you went through those actions, you were unaware of how those actions might be perceived. Would you have tolerated such belittlement if the shoe was on the other foot? Or would your post look quite different?
TLDR: A wonderfull women met me, startet to chase me, succeeded, turned out to be almost perfect, but the "almost" had to be something that really matters (if not the thing that really matters). GG life, you won again. At least I can treat my bitterness with the fact I made a normally shy but gorgeous women get out of her shell and chase me.
Here's my emotional response:
+ Show Spoiler +
![[image loading]](http://31.media.tumblr.com/436fe3da17b0e357e4ddf5db8116454a/tumblr_mpnsntBO2D1st3xfjo1_r1_500.gif)
But that won't help you as much as it helped me finish this thing.
Normally a man who lost a near-perfect woman would be devastated. And that is what occurred according to your own words; She matched your values in every single way except for the intelligence issue. But the wording is so weird I can't take your assertion at face value. Despite claiming that it was an unfortunate act of fate, you keep repeating the same dull theme: she chose me, she chose me, she chose me. Why are you focused on this instead of the actual loss? What kind of man treats a failed relationship as a highlight in his life? The other telling aspect is that you constantly emphasize the fact that she was beautiful in connection with the loss. Contrary to your claim that intelligence is the defining factor for you, you always associate these things in tandem. She was supposedly wonderful in so many other ways, but her beauty comes front and center whenever you wistfully look back.
The last paragraph tells me this experience, despite being painful, will not be a catalyst for meaningful change. It ties into the the main contradiction in your overall narrative. You're not satisfied with being one role, you want to be everything at once. You write in such a way to invoke pity because how life screwed you over, applause because you made the fair moral decision on someone else's behalf and to your own detriment, and envy because a beautiful women went after you without you lifting a finger. But you can't be the hero, the victim of fate, and the object of envy simultaneously. At least, not if you really cared about her as you claim.
I have no doubt you feel a certain amount of sadness and remorse over the breakup. While it was too soon to tell whether the relationship could have developed into something deeper, it was obvious you two liked each other and shared certain things in common. I’ll take a stab and say after a round of self-congratulation and self-involved weeping, you’ll return to normal and file this away. From reading the overall post, there's a few simple points I can derive from it.
- You're not used to the idea that beautiful women would be attracted to you on your own merits. You couldn't recognize that she liked you from the start as it wasn't part of your reality, and you focus on that particular aspect of her to the point of obsession.
- The account doesn't give the girl positive agency. The closest you get to accrediting her in that aspect is telling us about the chase, but that's ultimately just validation for you. You're the one that takes all the right steps.
- The relationship didn't fall apart because of an actual difference, but a perceived difference. Yet you were so convinced that it existed, despite the inability to articulate it, that it motivated you to break up with her.
- When mulling over the whole thing, you concentrate on her interest in you over the actual relationship.
You don’t suffer from being too noble or considerate. You suffer from a lack of self-esteem that is expressed through narcissistic, self-destructive behavior. “If you were less of a man,” you might’ve been more of a human and been able to acknowledge someone else’s humanity. Instead you acted to retain your sense of self above everything else.
Why would you willingly engage in such a tete-a-tete when you showcased so little interest that you constantly put off the decision to move to the next level? Why did you attribute the failure to flaws in the girl when a lack of desire seemed the more immediate and sensible reason to break up? I believe it's because on some level you knew the relationship would fail. You doth protest too much with the hemming and hawing, acting as if you’re the one who is truly wounded by the end of the affair. Recall back to the beginning of the narrative. This girl, who tickled your fancy by treating you as the prize, willingly deviated from her schedule to take the same train. It’s the girl that confessed her attraction, overcoming the fear that this pseudo-stranger could respond in any way. What did you want? Nothing. What did you do? Nothing. Your account is all “we agreed to X” and “I wanted to take it slow” and “shit happened and I went along with it”. By your own admission, you didn’t do a single thing to save it. These worries about intellectual equality and possible immaturity were all excuses; you could never demonstrate or hint at a single example in the account.
But you had to reconstruct a rationale that allows you to regress with a clean conscience. This falsehood had to avoid inciting shame, guilt, or any strong emotion that would label the experience a mistake; a mistake hints that there were better decisions to be made and that better decisions should have been made. Instead, you shift blame to the other party to emphasize the impudence of the whole affair. Putting the flaws on the girl served three purposes: it removes the desire for introspection, it affirms the impossibility of any practical future, and it indirectly proves you were a real man. If she was the problem in the whole scenario, then there’s no need to reflect on your own actions; if she was not smart enough to be a worthy partner, anything between you two would inevitably result in failure; if you chose not to “take advantage of her” (what other guys would’ve done in your universe), that makes you superior to them. I find the last part particularly offensive. You’re so kind and understanding that you belittle her, treat her as an inferior person, and talk judgmentally about her to complete strangers. And you have the gall to portray yourself as the good guy.
How could you possibly want her? You couldn’t even see the obvious until it was explained in your face. What you really valued was the validation, the feeling of satisfaction when a beautiful girl decided you were worth her time and energy. That’s why you bailed out when things threatened to develop. Either you would be forced to change, or the insecurity would eventually rise to the surface. That’s the sinking feeling you had when you looked at her, which your mind processed as mental inferiority. It was really a self-defense mechanism: “This isn’t for me. I couldn’t possibly be this lucky. Therefore, something must be wrong.”
Im at a point in my life where something thats just good like that happening to me is really needed, but it just wont happen.
It will never happen but not because life is cruel. A woman can never find lasting happiness with a 26-year-old boy. The problem is not her, it is you.
You're not a bad or a good person. I'm not in a position to judge that. But you should be aware that the assumptions of your narrative (life is unfair to me, I need the girl to be perfect, I was the responsible one) come at the expense of other people's happiness. Whoever she was, she was a real person and not a bit player in your life story. It was neither healthy or productive to ignore that. Neither it is healthy to act as if you are the perfect one and the error lies with others. In a relationship, both parties contribute to the failure in different ways.
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