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SC2 casting has a lot to improve - Page 2

Blogs > SiskosGoatee
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Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Espers
Profile Joined August 2009
United Kingdom606 Posts
September 23 2014 05:22 GMT
#21
my beef with SC2 casters is that they don't ever shut up, spending a lot of time talking for the sake of talking. sky sports commentary on the premier league/champions league is really well done, at least when Martin Tyler is commentating. it's not a never-ending conversation where as soon as one commentator stops speaking, the other is ready to take up the job of pointlessly explaining something we can clearly see.
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-23 05:36:01
September 23 2014 05:31 GMT
#22
On September 23 2014 10:33 SiskosGoatee wrote:
- "weakerly" is a perfectly acceptable adverbial form of "weaker". Like with any adjective, you can turn the comparative into an adverb.

It's hard to take you seriously when you defend this as a word when it clearly isn't one. Like with English, there are few rules that are true in all cases. Whilst I agree with the sentiment in parts of your blog the aggressive tone and poor writing really don't help your case.

On September 23 2014 08:30 SiskosGoatee wrote:
I've yet to see a caster who's actually spot on with the amount of hype of uncertainty...

Big shoutout to RotterdaM for always keeping the appropriate level of hype going.

Way to contradict your initial hyperbole.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
September 23 2014 05:37 GMT
#23
On September 23 2014 13:55 SiskosGoatee wrote:
It has citations on Dictionary.com, The Free Dictionary, and Wiktionary amongst others. "To recalcitrate" is a word, that you didn't know of its existence doesn't make it less of a word and if you had simply taken the time to google it you'd find out it's a word listed in dictionaries.


+ Show Spoiler [mhm] +

[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler [uh huh] +

[image loading]


I'll have to do more research, and later, may retract my indictment of your spelling in the future, but something about the sources seems fishy to me. I'm going to have to consult a concurrent 2014 paper dictionary.



"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-23 05:57:32
September 23 2014 05:57 GMT
#24
On September 23 2014 14:31 Scarecrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2014 10:33 SiskosGoatee wrote:
- "weakerly" is a perfectly acceptable adverbial form of "weaker". Like with any adjective, you can turn the comparative into an adverb.

It's hard to take you seriously when you defend this as a word when it clearly isn't one. Like with English, there are few rules that are true in all cases. Whilst I agree with the sentiment in parts of your blog the aggressive tone and poor writing really don't help your case.
Of course it's a word, what else should I have said "the more-weakly skilled player"? "the weaker skilled player?"

The word weakerly is very common in physics literature where "weak" is a technical term, or in Linguistics where it is too.

For isntance: http://ethesys.lib.fcu.edu.tw/ETD-search/view_etd?URN=etd-0109103-194539

You can find tonnes of literature using the word.

Show nested quote +
On September 23 2014 08:30 SiskosGoatee wrote:
I've yet to see a caster who's actually spot on with the amount of hype of uncertainty...

Big shoutout to RotterdaM for always keeping the appropriate level of hype going.

Way to contradict your initial hyperbole.
Well, that's the thing of a hyperbole isn't it? They tend to be contradicted because they're exaggerated for the sake of dramatic style.
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
September 23 2014 06:00 GMT
#25
On September 23 2014 14:37 ninazerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2014 13:55 SiskosGoatee wrote:
It has citations on Dictionary.com, The Free Dictionary, and Wiktionary amongst others. "To recalcitrate" is a word, that you didn't know of its existence doesn't make it less of a word and if you had simply taken the time to google it you'd find out it's a word listed in dictionaries.


+ Show Spoiler [mhm] +

[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler [uh huh] +

[image loading]


I'll have to do more research, and later, may retract my indictment of your spelling in the future, but something about the sources seems fishy to me. I'm going to have to consult a concurrent 2014 paper dictionary.



Google corrects all sorts of words that aren't common but still exist. Recalcitrant is an adjective derived from the verb recalcitrate. The word may be uncommon, but it definitely exists.

Hell, google is known to sometimes correct "do" to "don't" in your search term because more people searched the opposite. Google's correction algorithm is purely based on the number of times people search for it.
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
September 23 2014 06:17 GMT
#26
On September 23 2014 14:57 SiskosGoatee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2014 14:31 Scarecrow wrote:
On September 23 2014 10:33 SiskosGoatee wrote:
- "weakerly" is a perfectly acceptable adverbial form of "weaker". Like with any adjective, you can turn the comparative into an adverb.

It's hard to take you seriously when you defend this as a word when it clearly isn't one. Like with English, there are few rules that are true in all cases. Whilst I agree with the sentiment in parts of your blog the aggressive tone and poor writing really don't help your case.
Of course it's a word, what else should I have said "the more-weakly skilled player"? "the weaker skilled player?"

The word weakerly is very common in physics literature where "weak" is a technical term, or in Linguistics where it is too.

For isntance: http://ethesys.lib.fcu.edu.tw/ETD-search/view_etd?URN=etd-0109103-194539

You can find tonnes of literature using the word.

So much literature that the best proof you can find is some Taiwanese masters thesis on accounting. Try finding it in an actual dictionary.'The weaker player' or 'the lesser skilled player' would've been fine. Making up words isn't a capital offense but it's rare to see someone so determined to defend them.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
SiskosGoatee
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Albania1482 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-23 06:24:27
September 23 2014 06:22 GMT
#27
On September 23 2014 15:17 Scarecrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2014 14:57 SiskosGoatee wrote:
On September 23 2014 14:31 Scarecrow wrote:
On September 23 2014 10:33 SiskosGoatee wrote:
- "weakerly" is a perfectly acceptable adverbial form of "weaker". Like with any adjective, you can turn the comparative into an adverb.

It's hard to take you seriously when you defend this as a word when it clearly isn't one. Like with English, there are few rules that are true in all cases. Whilst I agree with the sentiment in parts of your blog the aggressive tone and poor writing really don't help your case.
Of course it's a word, what else should I have said "the more-weakly skilled player"? "the weaker skilled player?"

The word weakerly is very common in physics literature where "weak" is a technical term, or in Linguistics where it is too.

For isntance: http://ethesys.lib.fcu.edu.tw/ETD-search/view_etd?URN=etd-0109103-194539

You can find tonnes of literature using the word.

So much literature that the best proof you can find is some Taiwanese masters thesis on accounting. Try finding it in an actual dictionary.
Dictionaries seldom list inflected forms of words. Dictionary.com also doesn't list 'sleeps" for instance.

'The weaker player' or 'the lesser skilled player' would've been fine. Making up words isn't a capital offense but it's rare to see someone so determined to defend them.
Because I didn't make it up, I've seen the word before plenty of times.

I will admit though that when I google the word about 80% of its occurrences seem to be particle physics and someone's name. And I studied physics, so that's probably where I picked it up, it doesn't seem to occur a lot outside of physics and some linguistics literature when I google it.

Edit, a better alternative than lesser would be "weaklier", not sure if you also deny the existence of that?
WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.
itsjustatank
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Hong Kong9154 Posts
September 23 2014 07:04 GMT
#28
this is fun!
Photographer"nosotros estamos backamos" - setsuko
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
September 23 2014 07:09 GMT
#29
On September 23 2014 15:22 SiskosGoatee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2014 15:17 Scarecrow wrote:
On September 23 2014 14:57 SiskosGoatee wrote:
On September 23 2014 14:31 Scarecrow wrote:
On September 23 2014 10:33 SiskosGoatee wrote:
- "weakerly" is a perfectly acceptable adverbial form of "weaker". Like with any adjective, you can turn the comparative into an adverb.

It's hard to take you seriously when you defend this as a word when it clearly isn't one. Like with English, there are few rules that are true in all cases. Whilst I agree with the sentiment in parts of your blog the aggressive tone and poor writing really don't help your case.
Of course it's a word, what else should I have said "the more-weakly skilled player"? "the weaker skilled player?"

The word weakerly is very common in physics literature where "weak" is a technical term, or in Linguistics where it is too.

For isntance: http://ethesys.lib.fcu.edu.tw/ETD-search/view_etd?URN=etd-0109103-194539

You can find tonnes of literature using the word.

So much literature that the best proof you can find is some Taiwanese masters thesis on accounting. Try finding it in an actual dictionary.
Dictionaries seldom list inflected forms of words. Dictionary.com also doesn't list 'sleeps" for instance.

Show nested quote +
'The weaker player' or 'the lesser skilled player' would've been fine. Making up words isn't a capital offense but it's rare to see someone so determined to defend them.
Because I didn't make it up, I've seen the word before plenty of times.

Edit, a better alternative than lesser would be "weaklier", not sure if you also deny the existence of that?

Why assume I'd deny the existence of a far more legitimate word? Regardless, as you said, weakerly is pretty much exclusive to particle physics' abuse of the language unless it does fulfill a specific role in that particular field. In which case I wasn't aware your blog was on physics.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
September 23 2014 07:15 GMT
#30
Recalcitrate is a word, yes, but you still used it wrong. You stated that

"This whole "There's not a chance this attack will be held." or "Not a chance he will hold the third." before the attack even starts start to recalcitrate upon me because every time it happens you know it's like 50% chance. "

Let's condense it to make it less difficult to read:

"This whole predictions before the attack even starts start to recalcitrate upon me because every time it happens you know it's like 50% chance."

Recalcitrate is a verb, either transitive or intransitive, that means "to kick back/out/against", usually to suggest opposition.

Let's look at your sentence without modifying it to what I think it means. You are saying that the predictions start to kick out or oppose 'upon' you. I'm not even sure what you want to mean. Not only do you use an odd preposition in "upon", you are saying that the predictions are against you, as a person, instead of your own predictions. Perhaps the predictions are against your own thoughts and predictions, or are in opposition to what actually happens. However, for the latter case, the word still doesn't make sense unless you mean the casters are obstinately defending such a prediction despite the outcome. While a prediction can arguably be recalcitrant towards a prevailing thought or expectation, a prediction cannot recalcitrate an outcome since the outcome is undetermined. However, that's not what you meant. You are saying that the predictions somehow oppose upon you. Even as metaphorical language it doesn't fit in your sentence. Perhaps you meant that the predictions upset, repulse, or annoy you.

Using the same word in a similar context, the sentence could have been: "The outcome of games often recalcitrate against the casters predictions."

However, changing to a more appropriate word allows you to mean what you actually want to mean: "This whole tendency to make predictions before the fight even begins starts to repulse me because they only get it right 50% of the time."

Since we're being nitpicky, might as well mention that the preposition should be against not upon, your S-V agreement between "whole" and "start" is questionable, and your use of the word 'start' twice is unfortunate. Also, it's usually correct to use more + adverb, instead of adding +er.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-23 07:19:09
September 23 2014 07:16 GMT
#31
On September 23 2014 15:00 SiskosGoatee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2014 14:37 ninazerg wrote:
On September 23 2014 13:55 SiskosGoatee wrote:
It has citations on Dictionary.com, The Free Dictionary, and Wiktionary amongst others. "To recalcitrate" is a word, that you didn't know of its existence doesn't make it less of a word and if you had simply taken the time to google it you'd find out it's a word listed in dictionaries.


+ Show Spoiler [mhm] +

[image loading]

+ Show Spoiler [uh huh] +

[image loading]


I'll have to do more research, and later, may retract my indictment of your spelling in the future, but something about the sources seems fishy to me. I'm going to have to consult a concurrent 2014 paper dictionary.



Google corrects all sorts of words that aren't common but still exist. Recalcitrant is an adjective derived from the verb recalcitrate. The word may be uncommon, but it definitely exists.

Hell, google is known to sometimes correct "do" to "don't" in your search term because more people searched the opposite. Google's correction algorithm is purely based on the number of times people search for it.


Look.

If you google "Recalcitrant used in a sentence", you get examples. You can get a quote of Winston Churchill using it.

If you google "Recalcitrate used in a sentence", you get a lot of definition pages, almost as if some weirdo went around posting it on all the dictionary sites because he wanted to make a word or list an outdated word.

"Recalcitrant" is in my 2001 Merriam-Webster dictionary, whereas "Recalcitrate" is not in there, nor mentioned.

Spell-checker recognizes "Recalcitrant", which is obscure in its own right, but does not recognize "Recalcitrate".

The case you're making, which is "Well, you can find the word on the internet, therefore it exists" is less compelling when I can't find any contemporary utilization of this term.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-23 07:19:32
September 23 2014 07:19 GMT
#32
Siskos, you should still consider this blog a success as nina and I have somehow found ourselves on the same side

high fives for everyone?

o/
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
September 23 2014 07:26 GMT
#33
Ugh, why does everyone assume that myself and themselves are on opposing "sides"? I like everyone. Tanktank is cool. You are cool, Lichter.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
September 23 2014 07:41 GMT
#34
i vaguely recall arguing with you a bunch back in 2010 or 2011

first impressions last and all
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
September 23 2014 08:55 GMT
#35
Wow, I just hope that Ninazerg never stumbles upon my blogs
Meavis
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Netherlands1300 Posts
September 23 2014 09:05 GMT
#36
I believe casting is in a right position, for the majority, the casual audience.
most of the people I know don't bother listening to casters or when they do it's only to make fun of the fake hype, while a better discussion over the games happens in chats.
"Not you."
PiGStarcraft
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Australia987 Posts
September 23 2014 09:51 GMT
#37
Couldn't agree more with the zerg being underappreciated part. As a pro watching zvz casts is almost always a painful and irritating experience
Progamerwww.twitch.tv/x5_pig | pigrandom88@gmail.com | @x5_PiG | www.facebook.com/pigSC2
Serejai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
6007 Posts
September 23 2014 11:56 GMT
#38
On September 23 2014 13:55 SiskosGoatee wrote:
Even the King James Version, the most authoritative and defining work of modern English uses the style.


This dude just cited the bible. Thread is over, he wins. Take your loss like a man, ninazerg.
I HAVE 5 TOAST POINTS
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-23 12:25:05
September 23 2014 12:06 GMT
#39
rofl, ninazerg trolls and people actually argue and even agree with her \o/
TL+ Member
RenSC2
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1057 Posts
September 23 2014 12:08 GMT
#40
I think the most annoying quality that many casters share is the attempt to predict outcomes. As a caster, it is not your job to predict the winner whether that be for a single battle, a game, or a series. Instead, it is your job to describe what is happening on the screen and hopefully provide an analysis of what just happened or some of the future possibilities (not certainties).

So as a battle goes on, a caster should not be predicting the outcome, instead, the play-by-play man should be describing the battle. Then immediately after the battle, an analytical caster can jump in and explain why one side won the fight and the other lost. He can then provide some possibilities of what each player might do next.

You certainly don't want to call attention to a game being over because you want your audience to keep watching. At the same time, you shouldn't really be hyping a done game. When it comes to a done game, I think the casters should be looking for any possible outs that the losing player might still have. I'd also say that asking questions like, "Can Flash do this?" is reasonable given then you aren't putting too much hype into your voice.

So I mostly agree on your first point as well as "passing your opinions as facts".

Foreigner bias... who cares? The English casters are catering to an English audience where the foreigners are usually the fan favorites. The hometown casting duo for a baseball game are biased too, but that's almost a part of the job description.

Metagaming Bullshit
Don't ever watch a business channel on TV try to explain why stocks/commodities went up or down. These experts will tell you why stocks went up one day. The next day they'll give you the exact same reason for why stocks went down. Why did Reason X make the stocks go up today, but made it go down yesterday? Because they're trying to kill time.

The ability to fill dead time with babble is a bonus that creates a friendlier atmosphere between the casters and the audience. For some, like Tastosis, they are good at that babble and people get interested in what they have to say even if they aren't interested in the game.

For some casters that are more known for being analytical, that babble becomes Metagaming BS.

Underappreciation of Zerg and Racial Bias
I do agree that if you want to cast full-time, you should probably start playing random (or changing your race every day/week/month) so that you can provide insight into every matchup. However, it's quite difficult to play all three races at a high enough level to be able to provide insight into any one of them. Unlike traditional sports, the game is still constantly evolving and Artosis's Zerg knowledge from 2010-2011 is now worthless. Former pro knowledge tends to become worthless in 3 months of dropping out of the competitive scene. Maybe if the game settles into normalcy after 5 years without a patch, then we might be able to get some casters who can really analyze all matchups of the game.

Language
Language is meant to convey ideas. If the idea has been conveyed, then the rest is just bullshit your English teacher made you memorize. Nearly every English speaker in America pronounces it "layer" instead of "l-air". I had to look that one up to know WTF you were whining about. The rest of your complaints in this section are pointless because the message is being properly conveyed.
Playing better than standard requires deviation. This divergence usually results in sub-standard play.
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