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A bit more than a year ago, my girlfriend of nearly four years finally managed to get me to move in with her. While we were apartment shopping we got insanely lucky with our then new place. We signed a two year lease for $950 a month for the top floor of a duplex, 1100 ft² (102m²), two bedrooms in a nice area of Saint Paul, Minnesota. We got the price for agreeing to sign on for two years, but now that we are more than halfway done with our lease we are slated to face the increasingly bleak prospect of renting in a landlord's market. We've been doing some preliminary perusing about Craigslist and Zillow for rental units and for our price range, allowing both our dog and our cat, we are much better off just up and buying a place. If this decision were a Jeopardy catgory it would be, "Things ThomasjServo did not think he would be considered at 25," likely for $500. (We haven't gotten to double Jeopardy yet, settle down that happens at 50ish.)
I wonder if I can add Pillow-Fortability to my ZIllow search criteria?
Now this is not something we've been thinking about lightly, in fact the girl friend has gotten a second job and I am waiting to hear back about a part time gig at a brewery my friend manages to start putting away for a down payment. A bit of a fox guarding the hen house situation for me working at a brewery, but the pay is decent and I won't be beleaguered with mega-corporate bullshit or made to watch actors very stiffly depict situations of sexual harassment in the work place. This brings us around to what do we actually want, versus what we can afford, and all the other shit you're suddenly obligated to think about when attempting to behave like an adult.
Just when I thought I couldn't keep this pillow fort thing going, Google is my savior. Yea though the valley of Bing, I shall fear no deviation of theme for thou art with me.
In a nutshell, we are looking for approximately the same square footage, newer appliances, as close to new windows as possible (Heating bills are a bitch in the winter), central air would be nice though not obligatory, preferably not a murder house, and if at all possible in a decent area far enough away from family to discourage family from pop ins while allowing for relatively easy access to public transit. All this while not straying too far into the suburbs because while I've prepared myself for some modicum of domestication, I am not so prepared that I want to be exposed to the sheer volume of minivans present in those parts of the world.
Doesn't mean much to many, but the vague stratification of current residences of family as well as our search area
West Saint Paul, though I am not opposed to Saint Paul is a relatively undervalued bit of the city that for reasons unbeknownst to me, is actually South of Saint Paul proper.We're not here to wax cartographical though, and we have found several fantastic looking houses that are well within our price range and some that are definitely diamonds in the rough. The thing is as it stands this area is not on a lot of would be home owners' lists in terms of neighborhoods. It is partially a case of being just far enough off the beaten path to not pop up on the radar, as well as the fact that as of now there is nothing especially fashionable happening. It is just a quiet little neighborhood with an exceptionally low crime rate.
This in comparison to what is going on directly across the river at the Schmidt Brewery where artist's lofts have just been opened in the entirely renovated brewery complex, however I make too much money annually to live there. Two people, cohabitating cannot make more that $40k a year, which is some bull shit in my opinion, but hey I didn't buy the damn brewery. Just some examples now, prices do not include mortgage insurance, house insurance or electric etc. All three houses below are within five blocks of one another as well.
3 Bedrooms, 1.5 baths, for $200k, solid looking interior. Mortgage payment would be about 800 a month,
3 bedrooms 1.5 Baths, for 135k, much less square footage, in need of paint from the picture and this one has been up for a while making me wonder what is wrong with it. Monthly on this would be about 500 a month
There are purportedly 5 Bedrooms in this one, though I think they may be counting some larger closest in there, 2 baths 174k. Mortgage would be about 670 a month, this one would need some updating inside though
Our short term game is keeping up our browsing game and getting together the down payment which is the hardest bit of things. After that, we'll look into Private Mortgage Insurance, which is generally required by banks until a certain amount of equity is gained in the house by the buyer. Once we get over that down payment hurdle in earnest, or even a bit before we can start doing some walk throughs and start to get a real idea of what we'll be buying rather than the wide lensed, brightened, and posed pictures you'll often see on websites like Zillow or various local realty's.
It is an exciting prospect, and I couldn't help but think of the ending from Trainspotting.
 
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Ohh I like that first one.
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Cool blog post! 
On August 04 2014 23:53 ThomasjServo wrote:+ Show Spoiler + 3 bedrooms 1.5 Baths, for 135k, much less square footage, in need of paint from the picture and this one has been up for a while making me wonder what is wrong with it. Monthly on this would be about 500 a month
It certainly needs a small kind of refurbishment as compared to the first object. You would need to take a closer look at it, especially inside. If you manage to get this house going with less than 65k (maybe 35-40k?), you could consider it as an solid option.
...i have no deeper knowledge about the things above i wrote :p just in case you haven't considered those things already by yourself
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No hope of renewing the lease? If you get the house, might as well get hitched like the old bro.
Also if the house has been on the market you could probably get it for cheaper.
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On August 05 2014 01:24 Striker.superfreunde wrote:Cool blog post! Show nested quote +On August 04 2014 23:53 ThomasjServo wrote:+ Show Spoiler + 3 bedrooms 1.5 Baths, for 135k, much less square footage, in need of paint from the picture and this one has been up for a while making me wonder what is wrong with it. Monthly on this would be about 500 a month It certainly needs a small kind of refurbishment as compared to the first object. You would need to take a closer look at it, especially inside. If you manage to get this house going with less than 65k (maybe 35-40k?), you could consider it as an solid option. ...i have no deeper knowledge about the things above i wrote :p just in case you haven't considered those things already by yourself
That is a pretty sizable down payment, typical down payment on a house in the US is in and around $20k but you can go lower if your offer is accepted and financing is in order. I don't think we'd be able to go that high at all, but that house is my favorite because of the price range. I just have to check for the murder house bit.
On August 05 2014 01:32 MysteryMeat1 wrote:
No hope of renewing the lease? If you get the house, might as well get hitched like the old bro.
Also if the house has been on the market you could probably get it for cheaper.
Possibly, but after two years in the same place, we are both ready for a change. You get to the point where you are sick of some of the quirks of your apartment that you can't fix.
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TLADT24920 Posts
Second house looks pretty cool lol. I also like the look for the third house. imo, look at what you need in a house. Go for visits and see if the interior suits you guys then take a look at what you're making, if you can pay the monthly fees then decide from there. Best of luck and let us know what you decide 
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Do it because you can. Not because you "have" to. You really dont want to end up screwed out of house and home (literally) because shit happens and you cant afford what you've committed too.
Good luck and be careful :-)
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On August 05 2014 04:56 Capped wrote:
Do it because you can. Not because you "have" to. You really dont want to end up screwed out of house and home (literally) because shit happens and you cant afford what you've committed too.
Good luck and be careful :-)
We are a long way off from signing the dotted line, and I don't want to break the bank just to get into a house. All about making the numbers look right and luckily my brother is a CFA which make getting good, unbiased numbers on loans and insurance pretty easy. It is very fun to just take a look at what is out there, getting into a decent starter home would be nice too because if and when we do decide to move, we could turn it into a rental property and start putting away some nice scratch monthly.
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Yeah no, once you include insurance even house #2 will be ~1k/month.
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My only advice would be to rent a HOUSE before buying one. Renting a townhouse or apartment is totally different than dealing with all the stuff a house entails yourself - basement/crawlspace, water heater, hvac, lawn, etc.
Good luck!
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On August 05 2014 07:10 iTzSnypah wrote:
Yeah no, once you include insurance even house #2 will be ~1k/month.
Yep, which is why the payments as I pointed out were for mortgage only, not including PMI, and actual bills like water, trash, internet or electricity. Factor everything in, we'd be paying as much for a similar apartment/duplex in Minneapolis Saint Paul these days. 1k-ish month is fine, it is more the freedom we are looking for, what with the pets and not being beholden to some landlord who we barely know. Mortgage is just the only hard-ish number we have to work with as it stands, part of the reason that energy efficiency is a big factor for us.
On August 05 2014 07:19 Burrfoot wrote:
My only advice would be to rent a HOUSE before buying one. Renting a townhouse or apartment is totally different than dealing with all the stuff a house entails yourself - basement/crawlspace, water heater, hvac, lawn, etc.
Good luck!
We are currently renting the top floor of a house in Saint Paul, the fringe benefit/disadvantage to Saint Paul houses is most are so old that key appliances like water heaters, pipes and washers/dryers are about the only things that get updated. 80% of houses in the area likely don't have central air, and most houses are radiator heated. All good things to keep in mind, still a long ways out, but we have definitely had our fair share of quirkiness with our current and my past units.
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United States24756 Posts
What are your long term plans with your gf? Are you planning on getting married? If no, then what happens if the two of you decide to split up down the road? I don't really know either of you, but when two unmarried people are thinking about buying a house together things can get ugly fast in that situation. A married couple splitting up is not necessarily a picnic either, but it establishes a lot of the 'ground rules' for what happens to the house. Of course I hope that never comes up in either case.
I'm jealous of your housing market. If I wanted to buy a house that was convenient to work and in a safe area I'd have to pay at least three times what you are looking at for something equivalent. However, despite the relatively low house prices (for me, not necessarily for the USA as a whole) it doesn't sound like you are in a strong financial situation yet. My opinion is that you should buy a house from a position of financial strength... not weakness. With the size of the down payment you can afford being small, you are probably better off holding out on the house. Personally I wouldn't want to spend a cent on PMI.
I don't mean to be a debbie downer, but when you are planning on buying a house as a young couple the advice you receive should really be conservative... if you both truly want to do this and it is within your power to do so, it might be the best idea.
Personally, I would really like to live in a house; I currently live in an apartment building, and while it's a very nice apartment building, there are drawbacks I'm just not suited to, probably due to my suburban upbringing. I gave my subwoofer to my parents to store in their basement... didn't want to have to worry about bothering my neighbors. I can clearly hear people in the hallway conversing while I'm standing in my kitchen cooking. They can probably hear the sizzling of my frying pan! Also, my car is parked like eight-million feet below the ground in the deepest, darkest dungeon of the parking garage. Even if I manage to make it up to street level without depleting my gas tank, the vehicular escape from the city to get to the suburbs makes the trip almost not worth it.
If only commuting INTO the city didn't suck... and houses weren't so damn expensive... and I somehow had a guarantee I'd still be living/working in this area 6 years from now... and 8000 other reasons, I'd be buying a house today. I even have access to a VA loan and I'm still not doing it!
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On August 05 2014 09:20 micronesia wrote:
What are your long term plans with your gf? Are you planning on getting married? If no, then what happens if the two of you decide to split up down the road? I don't really know either of you, but when two unmarried people are thinking about buying a house together things can get ugly fast in that situation. A married couple splitting up is not necessarily a picnic either, but it establishes a lot of the 'ground rules' for what happens to the house. Of course I hope that never comes up in either case.
I'm jealous of your housing market. If I wanted to buy a house that was convenient to work and in a safe area I'd have to pay at least three times what you are looking at for something equivalent. However, despite the relatively low house prices (for me, not necessarily for the USA as a whole) it doesn't sound like you are in a strong financial situation yet. My opinion is that you should buy a house from a position of financial strength... not weakness. With the size of the down payment you can afford being small, you are probably better off holding out on the house. Personally I wouldn't want to spend a cent on PMI.
I don't mean to be a debbie downer, but when you are planning on buying a house as a young couple the advice you receive should really be conservative... if you both truly want to do this and it is within your power to do so, it might be the best idea.
The tone of the blog is generally more declarative than the actual situation, long term it is likely we'll tie the knot though not likely within the next year or two. Brother got married this year, my sister is slated to next, so we are holding off on that life event until it is more apropos. We are not in a super strong situation financially at present, but hence the second jobs, basically a paycheck sink to put enough into a mutual savings account to get the down payment out of the way.
The idea isn't to break the bank wide open to make the initial investment, though it may seem that way from the nature of the blog. We are just trying to find the right situation for us, which is a big part of the reason we are starting to poke about well before our lease is up. We'll see what happens if we find a nice rental for the 2015-2016 we'll take it but this is the route we are really looking towards. Plenty of time to get our sea legs, and establish the proper financial footing, no rushing into anything fiscally damning just yet.
Personally, I would really like to live in a house; I currently live in an apartment building, and while it's a very nice apartment building, there are drawbacks I'm just not suited to, probably due to my suburban upbringing. I gave my subwoofer to my parents to store in their basement... didn't want to have to worry about bothering my neighbors. I can clearly hear people in the hallway conversing while I'm standing in my kitchen cooking. They can probably hear the sizzling of my frying pan! Also, my car is parked like eight-million feet below the ground in the deepest, darkest dungeon of the parking garage. Even if I manage to make it up to street level without depleting my gas tank, the vehicular escape from the city to get to the suburbs makes the trip almost not worth it.
If only commuting INTO the city didn't suck... and houses weren't so damn expensive... and I somehow had a guarantee I'd still be living/working in this area 6 years from now... and 8000 other reasons, I'd be buying a house today. I even have access to a VA loan and I'm still not doing it!
I was a big advocate for a Saint Paul duplex when we agreed to move in together. most houses in Saint Paul are at least 80 years old and HUGE, generally with some sort of garage space, I lived in a filing cabinet style complex before this, and I never felt at home. I always was anxious, nervous, and a bit of a wreck about the movement in the halls as well as on the lively street of Hennepin Ave which I lived on at the time.
Minneapolis/STP just opened up a commuter line b/w the two, which means any time of day it is about 20 min between the two downtown areas, only hard part from the area I am looking at is getting to the bus that gets me down town. Were I to move there I would likely walk most of the way as I do now.
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St. Paul is a relatively big city with nice areas and not as nice areas. West St. Paul is cheaper because it's not as nice as many of the neighborhoods in St. Paul. I haven't lived in MN for about 5 years, but my impression is that the schools in West St. Paul generally aren't as nice (again St. Paul has a variety of school qualities).
Also, I thought the light rail was 45 minutes between downtowns, which isn't such a great time (slower than express buses were)
As far as the general idea of buying a house because of what you can get for the price, I hear you there. But unless you want to live in the house and stay with the GF for at least 5-7 years you'll be paying more in the end between the various closing costs and realtor commissions.
Good Luck!!
Edit: Also, don't forget to factor in all your extra expenses. You mentioned electric and the two insurances, but in MN heat is expensive. You'll also have to pay for trash collection, and water. Additionally instead of getting a property tax refund every year as a renter, you'll have to pay ~ $2,000/month. Make sure you also budget a monthly amount to save up for major repairs like roofs, water heaters, etc.
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