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On February 09 2014 14:33 Mothra wrote:
I feel kind of bad for him. You see the same thing happen over and over... Mike Tyson, Brittney Spears, Michael Jackson. Basically talented young people who get surrounded by people getting rich off them. Everyone tells them what they wanna hear and never tells them no because there's big $$$ to be made off of them. They get stuck in the dumb teenager stage until they're old and washed out and broke. Children shouldn't be in "show business".
Will Smith turned out fine. Jonas Brothers aren't famous anymore but they turned out fine. Hell, Selena Gomez turned out fine for the most part. Bieber has no excuse for his actions.
I read somewhere that his family/neighbors knew he was self-centered/assholish even before he became famous, can anyone confirm/disprove this?
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I think the ones who turn out fine have family that can ground and discipline them despite all the predators surrounding them. I don't care for Bieber's music and image but being hounded to death by the media is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. Maybe he is a massive douche, who knows, but I'd say he's getting his punishment along with "success".
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i wouldn't start paying attention now
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The problem with these famous pop stars is that all the money that rolls in starts to inflate their heads to such a big size that they think they are invulnerable and can do whatever the hell they want. No matter who you are in society, you have a responsibility to act decently to everyone around you and respect those that helped you to get where you are. To some extent he even has society to thank for his fame, because many are tolerant towards his music and actually take the trouble to buy his albums. I don't just like his music, and therefore I have no interest in where he tours or what he gets up to.
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There's tons of reasons why people dislike him, and then it has become a fad, so it's not enough to just dislike his personality and his music, you have to hate him, want him dead etc. It's pretty ridiculous.
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On February 09 2014 14:33 Mothra wrote:
I feel kind of bad for him. You see the same thing happen over and over... Mike Tyson, Brittney Spears, Michael Jackson. Basically talented young people who get surrounded by people getting rich off them. Everyone tells them what they wanna hear and never tells them no because there's big $$$ to be made off of them. They get stuck in the dumb teenager stage until they're old and washed out and broke. Children shouldn't be in "show business".
Please don't mention Britney Spears and Justin Bieber in the same sentence as Michael Jackson. It's insulting. Michael Jackson was way beyond a pop icon. His music will live on forever. He hasn't been relevant on the pop scene in like 20 years, and his old music is still being adored by the new generations. Justin Bieber though, noone will care about him in 10 years.
The reason why a lot of ppl hate Justin Bieber is because he's "selling" because of smart marketing, rather than because of his music or his talent. He could easily have been replaced by another guy the same age with an equal singing voice. I'm not saying that he has no talent whatsoever, but he's hardly one in a million or even one in a thousand. People are offended by the fact that the industry can market something ordinary, and create a extraordinary following for it. That's why Justin Bieber have a lot of haters. It's the same thing with One Direction. So yes, there's some jealousy for sure, jealousy about his success that is. I highly doubt that there's anyone who is jealous about his voice or his "song writing", or the song writing of the ppl behind him.
You could say that if Justin Bieber and One Direction's music continues to be loved by future generations, that it would disprove the claims about their music being crap, and I fully agree with that. The thing is, it will not happen.
All that stuff about him being a jack-ass and what not, they are just excuses. The Justin Bieber hate has always been around, and it's only lately that he's been getting into trouble. People are just looking for excuses to justify their hate, because they can't explain themselves.
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To me, personally, the only real reason to hate Bieber is that his countless fans are turning Twitter into complete mess. Shit like SWAG or YOLO is nothing compared to absurd hashtags like #ImABelieberAndMyParentsHateMe4ItButIForgiveThem
But to be fair, his music isn't THAT horrible. I mean, I tried two or three songs, then switched to one video of Victoria Justice and, compared to her works, the guy is actually bearable without having random bleeding from ears or developing explosive diarrhea. The only amazing thing is that for 10-12 years old, googling much better music shouldn't be rocket science, yet they follow JB's cult like sheeps (or maybe they're just a vocal minority, I don't know?).
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first ppl were jealous of his success
then he became a successful teen
then his head gets fucked up by all the attention, negative and positive to extremes
now he does stupid shit cuz hes fucked up by the attention and gave the jealous ppl legitimate reasons to dislike him so now theyre super happy and spew the shit noone cares about.
i think bieber haters are just as bad as the "beliebers"
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On February 09 2014 15:38 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2014 14:33 Mothra wrote:
I feel kind of bad for him. You see the same thing happen over and over... Mike Tyson, Brittney Spears, Michael Jackson. Basically talented young people who get surrounded by people getting rich off them. Everyone tells them what they wanna hear and never tells them no because there's big $$$ to be made off of them. They get stuck in the dumb teenager stage until they're old and washed out and broke. Children shouldn't be in "show business". Will Smith turned out fine. Jonas Brothers aren't famous anymore but they turned out fine. Hell, Selena Gomez turned out fine for the most part. Bieber has no excuse for his actions. I read somewhere that his family/neighbors knew he was self-centered/assholish even before he became famous, can anyone confirm/disprove this?
One of my classmates in uni said he went to the same school as Beiber before he became famous and confirmed to me that he was a Narcissist who arrogantly flaunted his "success" even before he became famous. Obviously he became worse afterwards.
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its not just justin beiber, but more about the fail parenting + infinite money syndrome. These fail idols are at the center of attention for the younger generation to idolize which kinda sucks
edit: and I never understood why people hate on him for his music, it's more how he's just a douche with a lot of money and no guidance. Just shows how if you receive wealth prematurely you get fucked over
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On February 09 2014 22:20 L1ghtning wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2014 14:33 Mothra wrote:
I feel kind of bad for him. You see the same thing happen over and over... Mike Tyson, Brittney Spears, Michael Jackson. Basically talented young people who get surrounded by people getting rich off them. Everyone tells them what they wanna hear and never tells them no because there's big $$$ to be made off of them. They get stuck in the dumb teenager stage until they're old and washed out and broke. Children shouldn't be in "show business". Please don't mention Britney Spears and Justin Bieber in the same sentence as Michael Jackson. It's insulting. Michael Jackson was way beyond a pop icon. His music will live on forever. He hasn't been relevant on the pop scene in like 20 years, and his old music is still being adored by the new generations. Justin Bieber though, noone will care about him in 10 years. The reason why a lot of ppl hate Justin Bieber is because he's "selling" because of smart marketing, rather than because of his music or his talent. He could easily have been replaced by another guy the same age with an equal singing voice. I'm not saying that he has no talent whatsoever, but he's hardly one in a million or even one in a thousand. People are offended by the fact that the industry can market something ordinary, and create a extraordinary following for it. That's why Justin Bieber have a lot of haters. It's the same thing with One Direction. So yes, there's some jealousy for sure, jealousy about his success that is. I highly doubt that there's anyone who is jealous about his voice or his "song writing", or the song writing of the ppl behind him. You could say that if Justin Bieber and One Direction's music continues to be loved by future generations, that it would disprove the claims about their music being crap, and I fully agree with that. The thing is, it will not happen. All that stuff about him being a jack-ass and what not, they are just excuses. The Justin Bieber hate has always been around, and it's only lately that he's been getting into trouble. People are just looking for excuses to justify their hate, because they can't explain themselves.
I agree with you about the music. If you're just looking at them as people rather than artists, they're being put through the same exploitative machine. Michael Jackson is interesting... I think he was so talented that people weren't even jealous of him for that, but they found reasons to hate him anyway. Yeah it's amazing that the industry can turn mediocrity like Beiber into a (short lived) phenomenon. When I was in highschool we all hated the Backstreet Boys and Nsync. Now I think it's more proper to blame the industry than the stars. If you reduce it down, it's basically getting rich off pre-teen girls by turning teen boys into a product. People misrepresent this process as a success that should be aspired to.
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On February 09 2014 09:48 AiurZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 09 2014 07:16 docvoc wrote:
The hate is excessive, but the kid does stupid things and is just generally not incredibly smart. The way he got famous was brilliant, but all manufactured by his mom who seems to be failing at her job as being a mom while being great at reaping the rewards of her son. It's just generally a really bad symbol to have, a family like that, in my opinion. The dude does dumb stuff, but the reason people really dislike him is the fact that his music is the poster-child for general consumption, safe pop music. People can dislike him for his success, or because he's "out there," but what I normally see is people disliking him because all of that is undeserved. The way he got popular was with small girls who latched onto how cute he was, not how good of an artist he was, which, at least for the crowd I'm around, is the most frustrating thing. It's not that the method takes no skill, but that it's so random and ridiculously chance based that he may as well have just drawn lots to see if he'd become popular. That's the view I see a lot in the South. i dont think its fair to say "the only reason he got popular is because people thought he was attractive". its also not fair to diminish what justin accomplished by trying to say that it was completely random etc. im pretty sure justin bieber did a lot of work to get to where he is today. have u watched never say never? how come people dont get mad at the president of nabisco for making delicious oreo cookies that are safe, and for general consumption? get it together nabisco! make some cookies that arent delicious!
I actually had to watch Never Say Never about 8 times with my little sister. The movie wasn't actually that bad I have to say. Though what I did learn from it is that Bieber didn't seem to enjoy the spotlight and I could see the seeds of what is happening now back then. He's kinda gotten in over his head.
The reason I say that it's the cuteness and luck is because there are thousands of Biebers. I'm very serious, I'm not exaggerating. Go on youtube and type in "cover" of any pop song and you will inevitably find 1-2 attractive/cute males who sing those songs about the same as Bieber does. He definitely puts in the work, he sings, he keeps his voice healthy, etc. However, none of that is abnormal for his profession. Though I agree, that shouldn't diminish the fact that he did capture the hearts of millions of teen/tween girls and you have to credit him with that.
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There is no need for a reason to hate beiber. You just hate him. It's the same as you don't need a reason to help others. You just help them.
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He makes bad music and poor life choices that get broadcast from every kind of media. I don't hate him but I do hate hearing about him.
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People are coming up with excuses to hate him, people who hate him because of the shit he did in the last 3/4 months, would still find other reasons to hate him. If he just sat on the couch for the last 3 months doing nothing, people would complain that he's rich lazy and spoiled.
Seriously, there's nothing he can do to make people not hate him, because people just want to hate on him. If he quits music, people will make fun of him, even if he made "good music", people would make fun of him, because its all subjective and there's no such thing.
Honestly imagine if the whole world hated you and you were a teenager, most of you would probably go mentally insane, you'd want revenge on the entire world.
On February 10 2014 11:23 Bigtony wrote:
He makes bad music and poor life choices that get broadcast from every kind of media. I don't hate him but I do hate hearing about him.
Quotes like this to me make no sense. WTF is "bad music"?
If millions of people around the world enjoy listening to his music, then obviously the music has some merit, its just not to your taste. If it was bad music, no one would wanna listen to it.
Why does the manuscript have to look like it was written by Aphex Twin, sound like everyone is going to die in 7 days, or have some hipster title in order to be good?
It reminds me of all the annoying people that spam music links in chat groups and say how amazing it is and tell us how other artists "suck".
For instance, there's no difference between Bieber and Kpop, yet there are Kpop fans that will tell me that Bieber's music sucks and link me to a whole lot of over-marketed over-produced drivel with girls that can't even sing. Its all just preference.
Disclaimer: I do not like his music, but seeing all the tryhard muso's trying to tell people about what is good and bad music to me is worse.
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Quotes like this to me make no sense. WTF is "bad music"?
If millions of people around the world enjoy listening to his music, then obviously the music has some merit, its just not to your taste. If it was bad music, no one would wanna listen to it.
Quotes like this make no sense to me. If millions emotionally vulnerable, inexperienced, and weak minded teenagers do something, that doesn't give it merit.
His music is lyrically weak, uninteresting, and juvenile. Everything else about it is uninteresting and shows little to no musical prowess (and he isn't the one doing any of that besides).
In comparison to a wide swath of artists it's uninspired and uninteresting. This doesn't have anything to do with it being pop or mainstream. There are talented, interesting artists in pop. He's just not very good.
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On February 10 2014 12:22 Bigtony wrote:Show nested quote +
Quotes like this to me make no sense. WTF is "bad music"?
If millions of people around the world enjoy listening to his music, then obviously the music has some merit, its just not to your taste. If it was bad music, no one would wanna listen to it.
Quotes like this make no sense to me. If millions emotionally vulnerable, inexperienced, and weak minded teenagers do something, that doesn't give it merit. His music is lyrically weak, uninteresting, and juvenile. Everything else about it is uninteresting and shows little to no musical prowess (and he isn't the one doing any of that besides). In comparison to a wide swath of artists it's uninspired and uninteresting. This doesn't have anything to do with it being pop or mainstream. There are talented, interesting artists in pop. He's just not very good.
And what is "good" exactly?
Obviously these lyrically weak, uninteresting and juvenile lyrics resonate with a big audience. To millions of people this music IS good, to them, these lyics are not weak or uninteresting. How can you tell them this music is bad? You can't, because its all subjective.
Realise that what you have is an elitist mentality, that some amount of "musical talent" or "effort" has to be put into a song before it can be considered good. You have a series of arbitrary metrics in which you define what is "good" and what is "bad.
You can give me a song you really like and I can give you lots of reasons why Bieber's music is better with my own arbitrary metrics. There's literally no difference, I would even have a stronger argument, because the arbitrary metrics that I use are more popular than the ones you use.
Its funny that we only have this kind of mentality in music and not other forms of art. A painting that has taken 5 minutes to make can be as "good" as a painting that took days, the value of the painting is completely subjective, yet we do not criticise the artist or audience for liking it.
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You're basically saying "opinions cant be wrong" - which isn't true. There are objective measures of whether something is quality music and his isn't. Popularity is not a reflection of quality.
Lots of people critique art and literature. You can't wipe away entire fields of study by saying "this is subjective."
Whether or not I like it is subjective. Whether or not it's good? Not (completely) subjective.
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I think people (more generally guys) just really dislike the style of music that plays to the feminine white knight side and probably feel that he is harmful to our (male) sex (how men should be manly) in the same way feminists see threats in female pop stars and like to blame culture for that.
I mostly disagree that culture even plays a factor, but I do agree that the music sucks and it's annoying just like all boybands or tiger beat kids.
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On February 10 2014 12:46 Bigtony wrote:
You're basically saying "opinions cant be wrong" - which isn't true. There are objective measures of whether something is quality music and his isn't. Popularity is not a reflection of quality.
Lots of people critique art and literature. You can't wipe away entire fields of study by saying "this is subjective."
Whether or not I like it is subjective. Whether or not it's good? Not (completely) subjective.
I think you missed this part
On February 10 2014 12:35 sluggaslamoo wrote:
You have a series of arbitrary metrics in which you define what is "good" and what is "bad.
Lots of people critique art and literature but only an asshole would say a particular work from a professional is actually bad.
In competitions there are a series of metrics which are defined before the competition so the artists know what they are going for. The judges award scores based on this metric. In pop music, the entire world is your judge, in this case, Justin Bieber is the clear winner here compared to any minority band or pop group.
Addressing this quote for instance,
On February 10 2014 12:22 Bigtony wrote:
His music is lyrically weak, uninteresting, and juvenile. Everything else about it is uninteresting and shows little to no musical prowess (and he isn't the one doing any of that besides).
In comparison to a wide swath of artists it's uninspired and uninteresting. This doesn't have anything to do with it being pop or mainstream. There are talented, interesting artists in pop. He's just not very good.
I don't like lyrics, I think they pollute the music, so when you say his lyrics are weak its not even a concern for me. All of the music I listen to (Cut Chemist, the Herbaliser, anything acid jazz), a lot of the time don't have lyrics at all, its just all highly technical abstract instrumental music.
I value technical beats/rhythms, originality, and very alternative chord progressions, so anything with that is good in my books. I could tell you that all music with lyrics in it is bad but I don't go telling people that. Good lyrics is an arbitrary metric which defines your subjective taste in music.
Bieber's lyrics resonate with his audience, that's whats important. Lyrics that you define are good, resonate with you, because you can't relate to his lyrics, you therefore do not like them, and thus refer to them as "bad".
As a musician, when it comes to scoring on musical talent I could probably tell you that most of the music you enjoy is "bad". Maybe you like prog-rock, etc, pink floyd or phil collins, compared to acid jazz this music sounds like the pop music that many people tell everyone they hate. There were many amazing unknown guitarists that could have replaced Dave Gilmour and who knows they might have done even better (Sacrilege I know, I love these guys just playing the devils advocate here).
It annoys me when I get referred to a bunch of guitarists who can "shred like crazy", and I'd really like to tell them that there are guitarists out there that can play the percussion, bass and melody of Toto's Africa all at once by themselves with just an acoustic guitar.
Again its just arbitrary metrics and pure subjectivity, you're no better judge of music than some preppy teen Belieber girl.
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EPT
