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Justin Beiber - Page 4

Blogs > dream-_-
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L1ghtning
Profile Joined July 2013
Sweden353 Posts
February 10 2014 17:59 GMT
#61
On February 10 2014 13:15 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2014 12:46 Bigtony wrote:
You're basically saying "opinions cant be wrong" - which isn't true. There are objective measures of whether something is quality music and his isn't. Popularity is not a reflection of quality.

Lots of people critique art and literature. You can't wipe away entire fields of study by saying "this is subjective."

Whether or not I like it is subjective. Whether or not it's good? Not (completely) subjective.


I think you missed this part

Show nested quote +
On February 10 2014 12:35 sluggaslamoo wrote:
You have a series of arbitrary metrics in which you define what is "good" and what is "bad.


Lots of people critique art and literature but only an asshole would say a particular work from a professional is actually bad.

In competitions there are a series of metrics which are defined before the competition so the artists know what they are going for. The judges award scores based on this metric. In pop music, the entire world is your judge, in this case, Justin Bieber is the clear winner here compared to any minority band or pop group.

Addressing this quote for instance,

Show nested quote +
On February 10 2014 12:22 Bigtony wrote:
His music is lyrically weak, uninteresting, and juvenile. Everything else about it is uninteresting and shows little to no musical prowess (and he isn't the one doing any of that besides).

In comparison to a wide swath of artists it's uninspired and uninteresting. This doesn't have anything to do with it being pop or mainstream. There are talented, interesting artists in pop. He's just not very good.


I don't like lyrics, I think they pollute the music, so when you say his lyrics are weak its not even a concern for me. All of the music I listen to (Cut Chemist, the Herbaliser, anything acid jazz), a lot of the time don't have lyrics at all, its just all highly technical abstract instrumental music.

I value technical beats/rhythms, originality, and very alternative chord progressions, so anything with that is good in my books. I could tell you that all music with lyrics in it is bad but I don't go telling people that. Good lyrics is an arbitrary metric which defines your subjective taste in music.

Bieber's lyrics resonate with his audience, that's whats important. Lyrics that you define are good, resonate with you, because you can't relate to his lyrics, you therefore do not like them, and thus refer to them as "bad".

As a musician, when it comes to scoring on musical talent I could probably tell you that most of the music you enjoy is "bad". Maybe you like prog-rock, etc, pink floyd or phil collins, compared to acid jazz this music sounds like the pop music that many people tell everyone they hate. There were many amazing unknown guitarists that could have replaced Dave Gilmour and who knows they might have done even better (Sacrilege I know, I love these guys just playing the devils advocate here).

It annoys me when I get referred to a bunch of guitarists who can "shred like crazy", and I'd really like to tell them that there are guitarists out there that can play the percussion, bass and melody of Toto's Africa all at once by themselves with just an acoustic guitar.

Again its just arbitrary metrics and pure subjectivity, you're no better judge of music than some preppy teen Belieber girl.

Noone denies that it's hard to rate music, but what he was saying is that you can't measure quality by measuring peak popularity. It's the music that will stand the test of time that is the good music.
All of the top musicians and artists of today and yesterday are at the top to a very large extent because of marketing. This is true for Justin Bieber. It's true for Lady Gaga, and it's true for Metallica, Queen, Nirvana and so on. The difference is that for some it's 99% marketing and 1% quality, while for others it might be 10% marketing and 90% quality.
So, how do you know if a artist or a band is big mostly because of their music or because of marketing? Well, if you're educated about music, you can make a educated guess. You can also walk into the future and examine the past.

Anyway, it's ridiculous to value the opinion of teenage girls, or teenage boys for that matter as equal to adults when it comes to estimating the quality of a musical work, especially compared to an experienced adult. Musical taste is largely a question of experience, and experience tends to come with age. A good measure of quality of taste is the total music consumtion of a person, basically how many different songs and different artists that they listen to over a time period, and also, the wider (genres/styles) your consumption is, the better your taste is generally.

My own musical taste has improved a lot since I was a teenager, and if I had made a video when I was 15 years old, with my 20 favorite songs or 10 favorite artists, I would cringe if I had to watch it today. I had a absolutely terrible music taste until my early 20's.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
February 11 2014 05:36 GMT
#62
On February 10 2014 13:15 sluggaslamoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2014 12:46 Bigtony wrote:
You're basically saying "opinions cant be wrong" - which isn't true. There are objective measures of whether something is quality music and his isn't. Popularity is not a reflection of quality.

Lots of people critique art and literature. You can't wipe away entire fields of study by saying "this is subjective."

Whether or not I like it is subjective. Whether or not it's good? Not (completely) subjective.


I think you missed this part

Show nested quote +
On February 10 2014 12:35 sluggaslamoo wrote:
You have a series of arbitrary metrics in which you define what is "good" and what is "bad.


Lots of people critique art and literature but only an asshole would say a particular work from a professional is actually bad.

In competitions there are a series of metrics which are defined before the competition so the artists know what they are going for. The judges award scores based on this metric. In pop music, the entire world is your judge, in this case, Justin Bieber is the clear winner here compared to any minority band or pop group.

Addressing this quote for instance,

Show nested quote +
On February 10 2014 12:22 Bigtony wrote:
His music is lyrically weak, uninteresting, and juvenile. Everything else about it is uninteresting and shows little to no musical prowess (and he isn't the one doing any of that besides).

In comparison to a wide swath of artists it's uninspired and uninteresting. This doesn't have anything to do with it being pop or mainstream. There are talented, interesting artists in pop. He's just not very good.


I don't like lyrics, I think they pollute the music, so when you say his lyrics are weak its not even a concern for me. All of the music I listen to (Cut Chemist, the Herbaliser, anything acid jazz), a lot of the time don't have lyrics at all, its just all highly technical abstract instrumental music.

I value technical beats/rhythms, originality, and very alternative chord progressions, so anything with that is good in my books. I could tell you that all music with lyrics in it is bad but I don't go telling people that. Good lyrics is an arbitrary metric which defines your subjective taste in music.

Bieber's lyrics resonate with his audience, that's whats important. Lyrics that you define are good, resonate with you, because you can't relate to his lyrics, you therefore do not like them, and thus refer to them as "bad".

As a musician, when it comes to scoring on musical talent I could probably tell you that most of the music you enjoy is "bad". Maybe you like prog-rock, etc, pink floyd or phil collins, compared to acid jazz this music sounds like the pop music that many people tell everyone they hate. There were many amazing unknown guitarists that could have replaced Dave Gilmour and who knows they might have done even better (Sacrilege I know, I love these guys just playing the devils advocate here).

It annoys me when I get referred to a bunch of guitarists who can "shred like crazy", and I'd really like to tell them that there are guitarists out there that can play the percussion, bass and melody of Toto's Africa all at once by themselves with just an acoustic guitar.

Again its just arbitrary metrics and pure subjectivity, you're no better judge of music than some preppy teen Belieber girl.

very well written. I agree with the majority of your point. As I've mentioned before, I've only listened to a song or two of his and I didn't think they were that bad. Infact, at one point, I was singing along to one of his songs on the radio before realizing that it was even his. If I enjoy singing with a song, to me, that means it's good enough to listen to.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-02-11 07:55:40
February 11 2014 07:54 GMT
#63
On February 10 2014 12:22 Bigtony wrote:
Show nested quote +

Quotes like this to me make no sense. WTF is "bad music"?

If millions of people around the world enjoy listening to his music, then obviously the music has some merit, its just not to your taste. If it was bad music, no one would wanna listen to it.


Quotes like this make no sense to me. If millions emotionally vulnerable, inexperienced, and weak minded teenagers do something, that doesn't give it merit.

His music is lyrically weak, uninteresting, and juvenile. Everything else about it is uninteresting and shows little to no musical prowess (and he isn't the one doing any of that besides).

In comparison to a wide swath of artists it's uninspired and uninteresting. This doesn't have anything to do with it being pop or mainstream. There are talented, interesting artists in pop. He's just not very good.

What you're basically saying, is that the people who write music/lyrics for bieber are bad at their jobs, so the music is bad. Well, let's put that to the test: Go do it yourself. No? Of course not, because you would fail at it immediately. You might not like the music, and you might think the lyrics are juvenile... but this shit sells, this shit can be played on the radio constantly. It's catchy, the songs get stuck in your head. That's the whole point of pop, and the reason he is selling so well is actually not the fact that he's cute, it's the fact that the people producing him are doing a great job.

You might be of the opinion that the lyrics are shit and the music is uninteresting, but you can't deny that the people behind Bieber are doing a great job. And they are the ones doing the music, so if you're going to comment on his music being "bad", you're commenting on them, not on bieber himself.

It's like me, I think Lol is a simplistic casual game. However, I would never deny that Riot is doing an amazing job, there's a reason so many people play it even though it's uninteresting.
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