• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 14:32
CEST 20:32
KST 03:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL63Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?13FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster16Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1
StarCraft 2
General
Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? PiG Sty Festival #5: Playoffs Preview + Groups Recap
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL SC uni coach streams logging into betting site Practice Partners (Official)
Tourneys
The Casual Games of the Week Thread CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 591 users

Developments in Development

Blogs > packrat386
Post a Reply
packrat386
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States5077 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-22 16:20:03
January 22 2014 08:10 GMT
#1
Developments in Development

About about the most recent exploits fo a young CS major. As usual the blog is in 2 parts.



Part 1: Motor City Mayhem

This weekend I had the pleasure of attending Mhacks III, a 36 hour hackathon in Detroit. Although this is our "home" hackathon at U of M, our campus is 45 minutes away from Detroit, so the event started for me and my friends with a bus ride on Friday afternoon into the center of Detroit. While the city is relatively close to the campus (a bus runs there on the weekends), none of us had really ever been there before, so it was pretty interesting to see the modern core of the city. The city had a really strange feel to it as one had to reconcile beautiful new glass high-rise offices with storefronts next door that are ALL for lease.

We entered one of the new glass buildings to find a really awesome office where we everyone was set up to get hacking. I don't know if any of you have attended a hackathon before, but the feeling of excitement that comes with sitting in a gigantic room filled with your fellow nerds is hard to beat. After a few opening ceremonies the event kicked off at nine and the hubbub of planning, diagramming, talking, downloading, and, above all, coding began.

I was working with a couple of my friends hoping to build a website to rank professional DotA 2 teams based on information that we would pull from liquipedia. I had experience parsing wikicode before so I took point on turning our massive dump of LP pages into usable data. We had a math major on the team who begrudgingly agreed to work on implementing the Elo ranking system in Lisp, and another friend of mine who had been working on web server frameworks (I don't really know what to call it tbh) for Common Lisp. So we split off and began our various tasks with vim emacs and vigor.

Hackathons are some of the most fun places to do work because although you're surrounded by your friends, and can turn to them fora tip or a joke at any time, its pretty easy to stay focused on the task at hand since everyone else is doing the same. Hours tend to roll by and you might not realize that you just spent 4 hours uninterrupted writing awful awful perl. Anyway, about 20 hours in we had all completed our initial tasks. A web server was up and running. Data was getting put into a massive .csv file. The Elo algorithm was chugging along. The remaining challenge was for us to combine all of our parts and get the whole thing working.

This proved to be quite the challenge indeed. For starters a few retools of my parsing algorithm were necessary for my data to be usable by the Elo ranking system that our math guy had implemented. Because the neither the data nor my coding skills are perfect, a few workarounds were required on both sides to really get things going. After that things seemed to be going well, our webpage was starting to take form, but we kept getting errors as we tried to populate the database. At this point my usefulness was dwindling as my knowledge of Lisp is approximately 0, but as the errors persisted I started brainstorming what might be causing them.

Eventually the seemingly small issue because the sole focus of our work. With only a few hours to go, every other part of the project was at least presentable, but we our Elo algorithm would still get stuck just a little way through. Finally our resident Common Lisp guru decided to run the code on his own computer instead of on the server, and realized that we were allocating all the available memory, or in the words of the SBCL terminal, game over.

We had decided to store our database as a list within the program itself, but didn't realize that our data wold actually take up all the available RAM because of how much we wanted to store. We tried a couple of workarounds, but at 7AM on sunday, with 2 hours until the deadline we determined that it wasn't going to get done. We closed up shop, and everyone on the team took a brief nap.

Going to the hackathon was an amazing experience anyway. I got to meet people from all kinds of different companies and schools and even got input from some of them on our project. The demo of the completed projects was also pretty great, as we got to witness some really cutting edge technology getting implemented. Lastly it was great to spend time with my friends in what became essentially a 36 hour hangout session. All of those benefits notwithstanding, it still left a bitter taste in my mouth to be so close to getting our project up and running, but not quite being able to accomplish our goal. I'm hoping to work with my teammates to be able to put out something (maybe even by this weekend) so that the project can have some sort of conclusion. We'll see.



Part 2: Meanwhile, Back at the Ranch...

For most of this year I have been trying to find some ways to start building a career for myself. I'm hoping to get a job in Computer Science of some sort when I graduate, and in order to do that it would be really helpful to start accumulating experience now. However until now I had had relatively little success in this field. I was beginning to feel a bit down on myself until recently because of how little I had been able to achieve in this theater.

Personally I think the internship system for Computer Science is a little weird. It seems to be really hard to get an internship without some kind of experience in a particular field, yet the fields they are looking for aren't really the academic sort of stuff. In our classes so far we basically just do a bunch of C/C++ to roughly simulate some real life processes. This is really educational stuff since its been built to teach you important general concepts in programming, but there aren't really any companies looking to program a command line euchre game, so it doesn't mean a whole lot to them until you hit a critical mass of classes after which they've deemed you "ready".

A way that I've been trying to get around this is through stuff like hackathons and side projects that I can show off to companies at career fairs. Unfortunately for me, I'm not the best at teaching my stuff, and its hard to build large in depth projects in one's free time because of the classes I'm taking. I managed to get an interview at the fall career fair, but it led to nothing, so armed with a smile, my latest project, and a fresh stack of resumes, I headed off to the startup career fair the day before MHacks.

I handed out 24 resumes. When you add to that number the amount of companies that I talked to and got shot down before the "do you have a resume?" stage, I talked to a shit ton of recruiters. I've got my spiel down to a pretty good pattern by now, so I can basically only hope that something I did manages to catch their eye and hopefully engage them in a conversation. I ended up having 4 or 5 good people I'm hoping to contact for some kind of work or something over the summer, but the height of the fair was that I was asked to come for an interview with a local startup about an internship starting this semester.

I had also been looking for some kind of respectable work with which I could make a few bucks while here. I'm glad to have the financial backing of my parents, but I feel like I ought to try and contribute in some way to my financial independence. So I applied for the job of a grader for a lower level programming class when I saw that some positions were available.

Yesterday I interviewed with the startup. Today I interviewed with the CS department. Later on today I learned that I got both jobs. Its a start.

**
dreaming of a sunny day
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
January 22 2014 08:34 GMT
#2
What does shpeel mean?
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50114 Posts
January 22 2014 10:07 GMT
#3
On January 22 2014 17:34 Azera wrote:
What does shpeel mean?

bullshit
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18824 Posts
January 22 2014 14:56 GMT
#4
It's spiel.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
dravernor
Profile Blog Joined May 2013
Netherlands6181 Posts
January 22 2014 15:20 GMT
#5
it means a long pointless/boring lecture in most contexts.

also congrats on the positions packrat
<3
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
January 22 2014 16:10 GMT
#6
a spiel can be like a promotional speech
packrat386
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States5077 Posts
January 22 2014 16:21 GMT
#7
Thanks for the correction. I always figured spiel was a made up word (never seen it written before)
dreaming of a sunny day
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
January 22 2014 16:45 GMT
#8
lol its so funny to me that we both go to school 45 minutes away from our homes. maybe wel get a chance to meet up sometime :0
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
packrat386
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States5077 Posts
January 22 2014 16:53 GMT
#9
On January 23 2014 01:45 PassiveAce wrote:
lol its so funny to me that we both go to school 45 minutes away from our homes. maybe wel get a chance to meet up sometime :0

I don't live 45 minutes from here. Not even a 45 minute flight
:p
dreaming of a sunny day
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-22 16:57:11
January 22 2014 16:56 GMT
#10
I go to school in amherst MA, and live in Detroit. you live in Connecticut right?
we talked about this in TLdotairc
u asked me to buy u booze lol
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Takkara
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2503 Posts
January 22 2014 21:23 GMT
#11
It's commonly understood that people, companies, etc. look for people that can "finish" projects. Generally this means that you have the patience and character to see a need, devise a solution, and then implement that solution. It turns out that this is really important for another reason: leaving talent footprints. You can be the most talented person in the world, but if you've left no footprints, then there is no way to prove your talent to others.

Open source project contributions, hackathons, TopCoder, mods to video games, World of Warcraft addons, SC2 map editor custom maps, a personal website, an active social network profile, a blog. Don't do these things just to "add a line to the resume," but think about how you may be able to adapt the things you're already doing for fun to leave a footprint. Bonus points if you can get user feedback and actually maintain software based on that feedback.

I think many companies that are looking for interns and entry-level employees, understand that students generally have less practical experience. Some have the track record and applicant pool to be more selective, but many more can't afford to be that picky and have to "draft someone on promise". Computer Science is interesting, because we so seldom learn skills in our degree programs that translate directly to our role at a job fresh out of college. However, the degree is still invaluable, because it will help you evolve faster and more fully than others that are just slinging code mechanically. Further analysis here: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2008/01/how-should-we-teach-computer-science.html

You sound like you have your head on straight and are pro-actively looking for ways to differentiate from your fellow students. You're ahead of where I was at that time and you'll be all the better for your hard work!

The best advice I ever received was that people will show their talents and passions by what they do in their free time. If you want the best companies to hire you (and that's not a necessity to be happy and successful in life), then you need to show talent and passion for development, so you need to show that in your life (in ways that left footprints).
Gee gee gee gee baby baby baby
FakePseudo
Profile Joined January 2012
Belgium716 Posts
January 23 2014 00:03 GMT
#12
Didn't know you had a blog, congratulations on everything! Cya on irc after my finals some time
I am the 0.0007% /forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17208334|| Big Black Women Vocals Is Like Porn to my Ears ||San Antonio Spurs|Boston Celtics||#1EZToss Hater;
MysteryMeat1
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States3291 Posts
January 23 2014 00:28 GMT
#13
On January 23 2014 01:56 PassiveAce wrote:
I go to school in amherst MA, and live in Detroit. you live in Connecticut right?
we talked about this in TLdotairc
u asked me to buy u booze lol


u buyin? we should have a tl thread were people over the age of 21 by booze for people under. We can call it TL-Tap-shoulder
"Cause ya know, Style before victory." -The greatest mafia player alive
harodihg
Profile Blog Joined November 2013
Japan1344 Posts
January 23 2014 01:13 GMT
#14
Hey packrat wanna become official best coding buddies and partake in a project together?
Agh's ult sniper: Sniper locks eyes with target unit, immobilizing them in horror as he turns the gun on himself. Channeled, lasts 5 seconds.
Dubzex
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6994 Posts
January 23 2014 04:14 GMT
#15
Neat stuff.
"DONT UNDERESTIMATE MY CARRY OR YOU WILL BE CARRIED INTO THE ABYSS OF SUFFERING" - Tyler 'TC' Cook
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL: ProLeague
18:00
Grand Finals - bo9
Dewalt vs Bonyth
ZZZero.O284
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 758
BRAT_OK 130
MindelVK 36
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 900
EffOrt 425
Mini 307
ZZZero.O 284
Soma 258
Hyuk 176
TY 114
ToSsGirL 69
Terrorterran 15
HiyA 13
[ Show more ]
LuMiX 5
Stormgate
BeoMulf171
NightEnD11
Dota 2
qojqva2993
League of Legends
Grubby2996
Dendi2110
Counter-Strike
fl0m1627
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King140
Chillindude43
Westballz26
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor867
Liquid`Hasu520
Other Games
Gorgc3091
FrodaN2805
B2W.Neo730
mouzStarbuck297
KnowMe115
elazer88
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick41245
EGCTV1698
StarCraft 2
angryscii 21
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 30
• Adnapsc2 26
• maralekos13
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4274
• Ler159
League of Legends
• masondota2559
Other Games
• imaqtpie2047
• Shiphtur676
• WagamamaTV378
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
16h 29m
Monday Night Weeklies
21h 29m
Replay Cast
1d 5h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 15h
WardiTV European League
1d 21h
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
FEL
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 2v2 Season 3
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.