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On December 14 2013 13:01 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 13:00 GTPGlitch wrote:On December 14 2013 12:31 Dodgin wrote:On December 14 2013 11:52 GTPGlitch wrote:On December 14 2013 11:06 Dodgin wrote:
complete bullshit, IM had a player in the top 4 of the season finals twice, in s1 and s2, and a top 8 in the s3 finals. Byul took 2nd in WCS AM s3 then top 8 in the season 3 finals, First took top 5 in WCS KR S2 then top 4 in the season 2 finals. In season 1 Mvp took 1st in WCS EU then top 4 in the season finals. IM has had a player do well in every WCS season, how is that not consistency?
GSTL isn't small talk unless you're an elitist prick, the season they won was fairly competitive. you originally said MVP is better, better how? MVP lost to IM in GSTL and none of their current players performed well this year at all. Most of their players' best finish was the ro32 of WCS. Dream and DRG took 2nd in WOL tournaments at the beginning of the year and haven't done much of anything since then.
Regarding the actual roster, you can never discount Yonghwa in a team league, Squirtle carried them in GSTL and he might be able to do it again. First is a god. Trap and Hero are obviously great for PL with their experience and past records. Mvp and Yoda won tournaments in HotS so they have potential to do well, and Byul is straight up solid and good. The team will likely be carried by the Protoss side but that works out just fine in the PL format. Also can't forget Ruin who showed potential to be good earlier this year.
tl;dr you're either incredibly biased or don't actually follow this scene closely Whoa there, cowboy. I'm not starstruck but i'll address some of this because I feel pretty much the same way he does - IM has a chance to do good, but it's gonna be a bit rough for them. Having three different players perform well in three different seasons isn't consistency, it's streakiness. MVP has been on a downward slope since his WCS EU win, First is still being dragged down by PvZ. Can't really say anything bad about ByuL except that his ZvP looks a little suspect looking at his recent games, but the only real standout loss is 0-2 to Arthur. Besides that, IM is suffering from the same problem that EGTL had, except worse IMO. They are hugely limited in the players that they can/will actually field. Hero, ByuL, Trap, First, Squirtle, Yonghwa, Yoda, and maybe MVP are play-worthy at this point in time. That problem is compounded by the fact that of those eight, five are protoss. While PvProleague will be a solid environment for First at least, it makes it almost ridiculously easy to tell your lineup to practice exclusively vP, since odds are there will be enough protoss played to either win or take it to ace in IM's standard lineup. Also, I'm curious how you think IM's GSTL win really means much of anything when you compare it to proleague. They came up short against MVP, AxA, and Startale in the group stage and barely beat a supernova-less Azubu, while beating NSHoseo, FXO (who has done great since the HoTS switch /s), and Prime before Maru was a god. They got A-K's from Yoda and Yonghwa to advance to the finals against MVP, who you call out as having a pretty bad year and then beat, and assume that means they'll do godly in PL.... IM is a team that has a number of players that go on hotstreaks and then cool down, and said hotstreaks never seem to coordinate very well. This is not a very good way to ensure you'll win proleague (shocker) I'm not going to waste my time replying to this entire post, but you really don't think having 8 players that are good enough to send it enough for a bo5 format? come on now. There are tons of PL teams that could never field a solid 5 player team where you didn't look at one player and thought they were a weak link. Uh, you mean the Bo6+ace format? Where IM will have to max out on protoss players or end up with a weaker-than-possible lineup? c'mon, someone might think you're incredibly biased or don't pay enough attention to the scene. Besides that my point is that it's really just 8 players that are even playable in PL, six who have put up strong recent results and two (MVP, Yoda), who are looking a little bit sketchy. You're clearly not paying enough attention, as it was announced the format is bo5 with no ace match for this season.
That is all very true and it was just announced today.
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On December 14 2013 13:01 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 13:00 GTPGlitch wrote:On December 14 2013 12:31 Dodgin wrote:On December 14 2013 11:52 GTPGlitch wrote:On December 14 2013 11:06 Dodgin wrote:
complete bullshit, IM had a player in the top 4 of the season finals twice, in s1 and s2, and a top 8 in the s3 finals. Byul took 2nd in WCS AM s3 then top 8 in the season 3 finals, First took top 5 in WCS KR S2 then top 4 in the season 2 finals. In season 1 Mvp took 1st in WCS EU then top 4 in the season finals. IM has had a player do well in every WCS season, how is that not consistency?
GSTL isn't small talk unless you're an elitist prick, the season they won was fairly competitive. you originally said MVP is better, better how? MVP lost to IM in GSTL and none of their current players performed well this year at all. Most of their players' best finish was the ro32 of WCS. Dream and DRG took 2nd in WOL tournaments at the beginning of the year and haven't done much of anything since then.
Regarding the actual roster, you can never discount Yonghwa in a team league, Squirtle carried them in GSTL and he might be able to do it again. First is a god. Trap and Hero are obviously great for PL with their experience and past records. Mvp and Yoda won tournaments in HotS so they have potential to do well, and Byul is straight up solid and good. The team will likely be carried by the Protoss side but that works out just fine in the PL format. Also can't forget Ruin who showed potential to be good earlier this year.
tl;dr you're either incredibly biased or don't actually follow this scene closely Whoa there, cowboy. I'm not starstruck but i'll address some of this because I feel pretty much the same way he does - IM has a chance to do good, but it's gonna be a bit rough for them. Having three different players perform well in three different seasons isn't consistency, it's streakiness. MVP has been on a downward slope since his WCS EU win, First is still being dragged down by PvZ. Can't really say anything bad about ByuL except that his ZvP looks a little suspect looking at his recent games, but the only real standout loss is 0-2 to Arthur. Besides that, IM is suffering from the same problem that EGTL had, except worse IMO. They are hugely limited in the players that they can/will actually field. Hero, ByuL, Trap, First, Squirtle, Yonghwa, Yoda, and maybe MVP are play-worthy at this point in time. That problem is compounded by the fact that of those eight, five are protoss. While PvProleague will be a solid environment for First at least, it makes it almost ridiculously easy to tell your lineup to practice exclusively vP, since odds are there will be enough protoss played to either win or take it to ace in IM's standard lineup. Also, I'm curious how you think IM's GSTL win really means much of anything when you compare it to proleague. They came up short against MVP, AxA, and Startale in the group stage and barely beat a supernova-less Azubu, while beating NSHoseo, FXO (who has done great since the HoTS switch /s), and Prime before Maru was a god. They got A-K's from Yoda and Yonghwa to advance to the finals against MVP, who you call out as having a pretty bad year and then beat, and assume that means they'll do godly in PL.... IM is a team that has a number of players that go on hotstreaks and then cool down, and said hotstreaks never seem to coordinate very well. This is not a very good way to ensure you'll win proleague (shocker) I'm not going to waste my time replying to this entire post, but you really don't think having 8 players that are good enough to send it enough for a bo5 format? come on now. There are tons of PL teams that could never field a solid 5 player team where you didn't look at one player and thought they were a weak link. Uh, you mean the Bo6+ace format? Where IM will have to max out on protoss players or end up with a weaker-than-possible lineup? c'mon, someone might think you're incredibly biased or don't pay enough attention to the scene. Besides that my point is that it's really just 8 players that are even playable in PL, six who have put up strong recent results and two (MVP, Yoda), who are looking a little bit sketchy. You're clearly not paying enough attention, as it was announced the format is bo5 with no ace match for this season.
Ah, my mistake then. I guess I retract all my previous statements - they went back to the dumb format from before the hybrid league.
*cries*
on the other hand, CJ will be even better now because they can just play HESH+1
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On December 14 2013 13:08 GTPGlitch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 13:01 Dodgin wrote:On December 14 2013 13:00 GTPGlitch wrote:On December 14 2013 12:31 Dodgin wrote:On December 14 2013 11:52 GTPGlitch wrote:On December 14 2013 11:06 Dodgin wrote:
complete bullshit, IM had a player in the top 4 of the season finals twice, in s1 and s2, and a top 8 in the s3 finals. Byul took 2nd in WCS AM s3 then top 8 in the season 3 finals, First took top 5 in WCS KR S2 then top 4 in the season 2 finals. In season 1 Mvp took 1st in WCS EU then top 4 in the season finals. IM has had a player do well in every WCS season, how is that not consistency?
GSTL isn't small talk unless you're an elitist prick, the season they won was fairly competitive. you originally said MVP is better, better how? MVP lost to IM in GSTL and none of their current players performed well this year at all. Most of their players' best finish was the ro32 of WCS. Dream and DRG took 2nd in WOL tournaments at the beginning of the year and haven't done much of anything since then.
Regarding the actual roster, you can never discount Yonghwa in a team league, Squirtle carried them in GSTL and he might be able to do it again. First is a god. Trap and Hero are obviously great for PL with their experience and past records. Mvp and Yoda won tournaments in HotS so they have potential to do well, and Byul is straight up solid and good. The team will likely be carried by the Protoss side but that works out just fine in the PL format. Also can't forget Ruin who showed potential to be good earlier this year.
tl;dr you're either incredibly biased or don't actually follow this scene closely Whoa there, cowboy. I'm not starstruck but i'll address some of this because I feel pretty much the same way he does - IM has a chance to do good, but it's gonna be a bit rough for them. Having three different players perform well in three different seasons isn't consistency, it's streakiness. MVP has been on a downward slope since his WCS EU win, First is still being dragged down by PvZ. Can't really say anything bad about ByuL except that his ZvP looks a little suspect looking at his recent games, but the only real standout loss is 0-2 to Arthur. Besides that, IM is suffering from the same problem that EGTL had, except worse IMO. They are hugely limited in the players that they can/will actually field. Hero, ByuL, Trap, First, Squirtle, Yonghwa, Yoda, and maybe MVP are play-worthy at this point in time. That problem is compounded by the fact that of those eight, five are protoss. While PvProleague will be a solid environment for First at least, it makes it almost ridiculously easy to tell your lineup to practice exclusively vP, since odds are there will be enough protoss played to either win or take it to ace in IM's standard lineup. Also, I'm curious how you think IM's GSTL win really means much of anything when you compare it to proleague. They came up short against MVP, AxA, and Startale in the group stage and barely beat a supernova-less Azubu, while beating NSHoseo, FXO (who has done great since the HoTS switch /s), and Prime before Maru was a god. They got A-K's from Yoda and Yonghwa to advance to the finals against MVP, who you call out as having a pretty bad year and then beat, and assume that means they'll do godly in PL.... IM is a team that has a number of players that go on hotstreaks and then cool down, and said hotstreaks never seem to coordinate very well. This is not a very good way to ensure you'll win proleague (shocker) I'm not going to waste my time replying to this entire post, but you really don't think having 8 players that are good enough to send it enough for a bo5 format? come on now. There are tons of PL teams that could never field a solid 5 player team where you didn't look at one player and thought they were a weak link. Uh, you mean the Bo6+ace format? Where IM will have to max out on protoss players or end up with a weaker-than-possible lineup? c'mon, someone might think you're incredibly biased or don't pay enough attention to the scene. Besides that my point is that it's really just 8 players that are even playable in PL, six who have put up strong recent results and two (MVP, Yoda), who are looking a little bit sketchy. You're clearly not paying enough attention, as it was announced the format is bo5 with no ace match for this season. Ah, my mistake then. I guess I retract all my previous statements - they went back to the dumb format from before the hybrid league. *cries* on the other hand, CJ will be even better now because they can just play HESH+1
ha ha ha. Yeah, it's a little better for teams that are a little thin and it's only four rounds, meh. Not much you can do about it. It will be hard for the middle of the pack regardless.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37044 Posts
How dare you forget about CoCa... >: (
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On December 14 2013 13:00 GTPGlitch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 12:31 Dodgin wrote:On December 14 2013 11:52 GTPGlitch wrote:On December 14 2013 11:06 Dodgin wrote:
complete bullshit, IM had a player in the top 4 of the season finals twice, in s1 and s2, and a top 8 in the s3 finals. Byul took 2nd in WCS AM s3 then top 8 in the season 3 finals, First took top 5 in WCS KR S2 then top 4 in the season 2 finals. In season 1 Mvp took 1st in WCS EU then top 4 in the season finals. IM has had a player do well in every WCS season, how is that not consistency?
GSTL isn't small talk unless you're an elitist prick, the season they won was fairly competitive. you originally said MVP is better, better how? MVP lost to IM in GSTL and none of their current players performed well this year at all. Most of their players' best finish was the ro32 of WCS. Dream and DRG took 2nd in WOL tournaments at the beginning of the year and haven't done much of anything since then.
Regarding the actual roster, you can never discount Yonghwa in a team league, Squirtle carried them in GSTL and he might be able to do it again. First is a god. Trap and Hero are obviously great for PL with their experience and past records. Mvp and Yoda won tournaments in HotS so they have potential to do well, and Byul is straight up solid and good. The team will likely be carried by the Protoss side but that works out just fine in the PL format. Also can't forget Ruin who showed potential to be good earlier this year.
tl;dr you're either incredibly biased or don't actually follow this scene closely Whoa there, cowboy. I'm not starstruck but i'll address some of this because I feel pretty much the same way he does - IM has a chance to do good, but it's gonna be a bit rough for them. Having three different players perform well in three different seasons isn't consistency, it's streakiness. MVP has been on a downward slope since his WCS EU win, First is still being dragged down by PvZ. Can't really say anything bad about ByuL except that his ZvP looks a little suspect looking at his recent games, but the only real standout loss is 0-2 to Arthur. Besides that, IM is suffering from the same problem that EGTL had, except worse IMO. They are hugely limited in the players that they can/will actually field. Hero, ByuL, Trap, First, Squirtle, Yonghwa, Yoda, and maybe MVP are play-worthy at this point in time. That problem is compounded by the fact that of those eight, five are protoss. While PvProleague will be a solid environment for First at least, it makes it almost ridiculously easy to tell your lineup to practice exclusively vP, since odds are there will be enough protoss played to either win or take it to ace in IM's standard lineup. Also, I'm curious how you think IM's GSTL win really means much of anything when you compare it to proleague. They came up short against MVP, AxA, and Startale in the group stage and barely beat a supernova-less Azubu, while beating NSHoseo, FXO (who has done great since the HoTS switch /s), and Prime before Maru was a god. They got A-K's from Yoda and Yonghwa to advance to the finals against MVP, who you call out as having a pretty bad year and then beat, and assume that means they'll do godly in PL.... IM is a team that has a number of players that go on hotstreaks and then cool down, and said hotstreaks never seem to coordinate very well. This is not a very good way to ensure you'll win proleague (shocker) I'm not going to waste my time replying to this entire post, but you really don't think having 8 players that are good enough to send it enough for a bo5 format? come on now. There are tons of PL teams that could never field a solid 5 player team where you didn't look at one player and thought they were a weak link. Uh, you mean the Bo6+ace format? Where IM will have to max out on protoss players or end up with a weaker-than-possible lineup? c'mon, someone might think you're incredibly biased or don't pay enough attention to the scene. Besides that my point is that it's really just 8 players that are even playable in PL, six who have put up strong recent results and two (MVP, Yoda), who are looking a little bit sketchy.
You say "just 8 players" as if any other team has 8 reliable players to play. 8 players is plenty when the format is Bo5. Shit, teams would be happy to have 8 go-to-guys in a Bo7 format.
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Samsung not in last place for having RorO? I'm shocked Zealously.
MVP should totally be higher.
Gaining Trap should bump IM back to #3
On December 14 2013 12:35 BisuDagger wrote:
IM is a bunch of overrated old people. Why is there arguing? If anything #4 seed was too generous.
pfft, by season's end your pitiful SKT kingdom will look worse than Bisu's play.
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Last season I thought STX was underrated and they won, now it's time for CJ Entus! BTW isn't CoCa in Jin Air?
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Prime have gone from kind of fucked to completely screwed
hahaha i love this line.
and about CJ being #1 and SKT following them. Here it is
"Zealously you're drunk, go home!". Obligatory you are drunk statement.
Nice writeup as always.
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I'm not sure how much room there really is to be overrated in 4th place. :p On paper the team is easily better than the ones in 5-8th place, having both individual and teamleague results that are better than those teams. Their only real problem is never having participated in proleague before. You can argue about the results of IM all you want, maybe the players are inconsistent, and relying on hot streaks, but at least they've done things unlike everyone below them.
But it's all moot anyways, this is still IM in a teamleague. They'll find a way to mess up. Weird lineups and wrong ace calls incoming!
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GOGO SAMSUNG MILKY WAY.
I'm really stoked to see iloveoov's head coaching ability though. :O
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The Bo5 format means that CJ will receive a huge boost this season, regardless of other factors. The fact that they have 3 roughly equally-great players synergizes spectacularly well with Bo5.
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I'd say CJ on #2, SKT#1 and MVP somewhat higher. Would you really bet money on this? I mean SKT < CJ? Mehhhh.
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Top 4 in this ranking is top 4 in pre-season tournament. Dat Zealously advantage.
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heh, I didn't even notice there is almost the same blog already out there before I've written mine.
Shortly:
SKT>CJ>JAGWings>KT>IM>MVP>KHAN>Prime
Reasoning can be found in my blog, it's too long :>
Anyway, now a question:
On December 14 2013 13:01 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2013 13:00 GTPGlitch wrote:On December 14 2013 12:31 Dodgin wrote:On December 14 2013 11:52 GTPGlitch wrote:On December 14 2013 11:06 Dodgin wrote:
complete bullshit, IM had a player in the top 4 of the season finals twice, in s1 and s2, and a top 8 in the s3 finals. Byul took 2nd in WCS AM s3 then top 8 in the season 3 finals, First took top 5 in WCS KR S2 then top 4 in the season 2 finals. In season 1 Mvp took 1st in WCS EU then top 4 in the season finals. IM has had a player do well in every WCS season, how is that not consistency?
GSTL isn't small talk unless you're an elitist prick, the season they won was fairly competitive. you originally said MVP is better, better how? MVP lost to IM in GSTL and none of their current players performed well this year at all. Most of their players' best finish was the ro32 of WCS. Dream and DRG took 2nd in WOL tournaments at the beginning of the year and haven't done much of anything since then.
Regarding the actual roster, you can never discount Yonghwa in a team league, Squirtle carried them in GSTL and he might be able to do it again. First is a god. Trap and Hero are obviously great for PL with their experience and past records. Mvp and Yoda won tournaments in HotS so they have potential to do well, and Byul is straight up solid and good. The team will likely be carried by the Protoss side but that works out just fine in the PL format. Also can't forget Ruin who showed potential to be good earlier this year.
tl;dr you're either incredibly biased or don't actually follow this scene closely Whoa there, cowboy. I'm not starstruck but i'll address some of this because I feel pretty much the same way he does - IM has a chance to do good, but it's gonna be a bit rough for them. Having three different players perform well in three different seasons isn't consistency, it's streakiness. MVP has been on a downward slope since his WCS EU win, First is still being dragged down by PvZ. Can't really say anything bad about ByuL except that his ZvP looks a little suspect looking at his recent games, but the only real standout loss is 0-2 to Arthur. Besides that, IM is suffering from the same problem that EGTL had, except worse IMO. They are hugely limited in the players that they can/will actually field. Hero, ByuL, Trap, First, Squirtle, Yonghwa, Yoda, and maybe MVP are play-worthy at this point in time. That problem is compounded by the fact that of those eight, five are protoss. While PvProleague will be a solid environment for First at least, it makes it almost ridiculously easy to tell your lineup to practice exclusively vP, since odds are there will be enough protoss played to either win or take it to ace in IM's standard lineup. Also, I'm curious how you think IM's GSTL win really means much of anything when you compare it to proleague. They came up short against MVP, AxA, and Startale in the group stage and barely beat a supernova-less Azubu, while beating NSHoseo, FXO (who has done great since the HoTS switch /s), and Prime before Maru was a god. They got A-K's from Yoda and Yonghwa to advance to the finals against MVP, who you call out as having a pretty bad year and then beat, and assume that means they'll do godly in PL.... IM is a team that has a number of players that go on hotstreaks and then cool down, and said hotstreaks never seem to coordinate very well. This is not a very good way to ensure you'll win proleague (shocker) I'm not going to waste my time replying to this entire post, but you really don't think having 8 players that are good enough to send it enough for a bo5 format? come on now. There are tons of PL teams that could never field a solid 5 player team where you didn't look at one player and thought they were a weak link. Uh, you mean the Bo6+ace format? Where IM will have to max out on protoss players or end up with a weaker-than-possible lineup? c'mon, someone might think you're incredibly biased or don't pay enough attention to the scene. Besides that my point is that it's really just 8 players that are even playable in PL, six who have put up strong recent results and two (MVP, Yoda), who are looking a little bit sketchy. You're clearly not paying enough attention, as it was announced the format is bo5 with no ace match for this season.
Is the 'no ace' part confirmed? Because in the TL Post it says
matches being Bo5 in Proleague style.
which I understand as the same as last year, just Bo5 instead of Bo7 (meaning predetermined 4v4 with 5th game being ace match if needed).
I tried asking in the announcement thread, but nobody knew/the ones who knew didn't notice. Hope it's not the case, cause without the ace match a) less hype b) my Power Rank would suck :D
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
There will be an ace match.
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Bold and interesting ranking. Lets hope Sora's the next bonjwa.
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I agree with the ranking, though I know KT will finish top-3. I wish they wouldn´t, but they will, probably leaving Jin Air behind.
Let the PvProleague begin!
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
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United States23455 Posts
On December 16 2013 21:59 Zealously wrote:
Pre-season 2 ez
Jin Air and SKT should've been flipped. Joke power rank.
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I just think, that SKT will be stronger in the play offs after every round. If there would be ONLY the standard Bo5 format, CJ could be kinda stronger then SKT. But in the Bo7 all kill format, that will be there after every round, the deepness of SKT (and IM to a lesser extent) will probably reign supreme. And considering the teams will only get points for rankings AFTER the playoffs.... Well, we will see soon 
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EPT
