• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 18:41
CEST 00:41
KST 07:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244
Community News
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon40Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?158Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism SC4ALL: II Winner will earn a spot at HSC 30!
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 KSL Week #92 IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly 2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? Broodwar Prediction Market Practice Partners (Official) [D] Brainstorming a balance patch for Brood war
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group A [ASL22] Ro16 Group B Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
EVE Corporation Diablo IV Nintendo Switch Thread [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Diablo Animated Series on Netflix Movie Discussion!
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6820 users

How Tournaments can strengthen the NA scene

Blogs > Arcane86
Post a Reply
Arcane86
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States68 Posts
October 21 2013 13:59 GMT
#1
Summary:
Tournaments that use NA Ladder ranking instead of qualifiers will raise the level of competition on the NA ladder, and improve the overall training environment for NA players.

Full post:

The Problem
American players aren’t good enough.

Let’s get real here. This is the problem. American players aren’t good enough to beat the best of the best. American players need to get better, and it’s not as simple as as “practice harder.” We have plenty of dedicated, talented and hardworking players. This isn’t enough.

The Challenge
American (and European) do not have access to an ideal training environment. That is what needs to change, and region-locking improves investment and performance incentives, but that only fixes part of it. Ladder access is still key, and is still not good enough.

Non-Korean players cannot have ideal access to the Korean server, even if they live in Korea.

Playing on the Korean ladder from the US/EU with lag is obviously non-ideal. You are playing with lag. A foreign player living in Korea and playing on the Korean Ladder is STILL non-ideal. S/he will deal with culture shock, and severe limitations in the ability to communicate with other players and coaches, all of which is a distraction from playing and improving. Contrast this to Korean players in Korea. There is both unfettered access to the Korean Ladder and (obviously) no culture shock.

Thus, the most important factor being overlooked is the ladder itself. Because of how much training happens on ladder, the NA ladder needs to be made more competitive.

Impossible, you say? We have reason to think otherwise.

The Solution
Let us think back to Shoutcraft America. In a long-past SoTG, Col.QXC mentioned how Shoutcraft’s ladder-based qualifications turn the NA ladder into a highly competitive place (35:19-.36:40). This serves as a model for how to make the ladder more competitive.



We need tournaments that run qualification based on ladder position, that are restricted to a specific ladder. They can be, do not need to be, residence locked.

WCS America could, instead of having “challenger league qualifiers” simply take the top 20 GM on NA at a specified date. Imagine if IEM-NYC had simply used an open-residence NA-ladder qualifier. Dreamhack and HSC’s NA qualifiers could do the same with different dates, and Red Bull could take GM top4 to seed their 4-player live qualifier.

This year had 8 non-WCS events awarding WCS points. Imagine if all 8 of these events and WCS challenger league qualifiers used ladder-based seeding. Ladder rank would be competitively important 11 times per year, dramatically improving the value of playing at your best on ladder consistently.

The Implications of no residence-lock
What happens if we do this and it isn’t residence-locked? Koreans begin playing on the NA ladder. Now the players on the NA ladder have a more competitive training environment, but it’s the Koreans playing with lag. Moreover, the tournament organizer doesn’t have to sacrifice the opportunity to have Koreans attend the tournament because Koreans can play on the NA ladder.

If tournaments regularly use ladder position to qualify players, the ladders will inherently become and stay more competitive.


How Blizzard can help.
It seems that Blizzard has already required that tournaments use some form of an “open qualification” system as a condition of awarding WCS points. They could require that such tournaments use ladder ranking to fill qualifier slots. This puts upward pressure on the skill level on the ladders..

We would see a livelier ladder now, and the NA scene would reap the rewards.


***
There is no Cow Level
TrippSC2
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States209 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-21 15:38:03
October 21 2013 15:35 GMT
#2
I agree that this will help and fully support this, not only for the players, but for the fans. It kicked so much ass to watch the NA ladder leading up to Shoutcraft America for qualification. Whether that was just for the novelty of the concept or not, I'd like to see how that would work if it were more widespread.

The only thing that I feel is really worth mentioning is the lack of an ideal training environment is only part of the challenge for NA players to catch up. The fact that you have to be in a situation where you have outside support already to be able to practice enough to compete is a bigger issue imo.

EDIT: One last thing I want to point out. Koreans with lag regularly qualify over NA players in WCS online qualifiers. I don't think this would prevent them from qualifying or allow more NA players to qualify without an actual region lock.
Arcane86
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States68 Posts
October 21 2013 16:47 GMT
#3
The only thing that I feel is really worth mentioning is the lack of an ideal training environment is only part of the challenge for NA players to catch up. The fact that you have to be in a situation where you have outside support already to be able to practice enough to compete is a bigger issue imo.


It is a relevant issue that has already been widely discussed. As as such, I chose not to address it here.

One last thing I want to point out. Koreans with lag regularly qualify over NA players in WCS online qualifiers. I don't think this would prevent them from qualifying or allow more NA players to qualify without an actual region lock.


I do not disagree. However, my post is not about what creates tournament spots now. It is about what creates an environment in which NA players no longer need special treatment just to have a tournament spot.
There is no Cow Level
DusTerr
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
2520 Posts
October 21 2013 17:04 GMT
#4
I would really like to see ladder rank implemented more...

This may require (or promote) less barcode accounts and ultimately cheating is also a concern.
feardragon
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States973 Posts
October 21 2013 17:30 GMT
#5
I think it'd be great to see more involvement on the ladder as Shoutcraft did. One important note about how they handled it was telling players they had to verify themselves as eligible for the rules of the tournament(residing in a North/South American country, etc.).

The other concern I have is that (unless they've changed it), once you get into GM it's fairly easy to stay in. This could cause some problems since players that don't get in via the initial wave could find themselves out of luck, while players who do get in can drop their actual mmr while staying in GM. This makes it easier for them to build up points, and reach the top of the ladder. I'd love to know if blizzard changed the way GM functions though if this is no longer the case.
Ok Starcraft 2 Commentator
ffadicted
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3545 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-10-21 17:43:42
October 21 2013 17:41 GMT
#6
Not to be a stick in the mud, but do you realize the implications of investing and rewarding hundreds of thousands of dollars into anonymous Bo1's with no referees and their own connection/computers? The entire ladder system would have to change, not to mention possible hacking and cheating.

It's a silly pipedream imo. Most pros agree ladder doesn't mean much
SooYoung-Noona!
Psychonian
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2322 Posts
October 22 2013 01:24 GMT
#7
5/5, would love to see this happen
Trans Rights
UmberBane
Profile Joined March 2013
Germany5450 Posts
October 22 2013 13:14 GMT
#8
The problem with ladder importance has always been hacking, win trading or other shenanigans.
ObviousOne
Profile Joined April 2012
United States3704 Posts
October 22 2013 21:44 GMT
#9
Ask not what your tournaments can do for you, but what you can do for your tournaments.
Fear is the only darkness. ~Destiny Fan Club operator~
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
20:30
Masters Cup #151
davetesta52
Liquipedia
AI Arena Tournament
17:00
Swiss - Round 1
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 430
Nina 100
ViBE92
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 13859
Artosis 532
NaDa 25
Dota 2
monkeys_forever273
canceldota49
LuMiX1
League of Legends
Doublelift5216
JimRising 482
Counter-Strike
fl0m3227
Coldzera 1399
minikerr42
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0258
Chillindude13
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu1028
Other Games
summit1g8849
Grubby6587
B2W.Neo870
RotterdaM400
XaKoH 176
Trikslyr64
Organizations
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm3062
StarCraft 2
StarCraft915
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 515
Other Games
BasetradeTV278
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 103
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21178
Other Games
• imaqtpie854
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
11h 19m
WardiTV Invitational
12h 19m
ByuN vs Percival
Cure vs Classic
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
16h 19m
Spirit vs Mixu
Clem vs TBD
RSL Revival
17h 19m
Serral vs Rogue
BlizzCon
19h 49m
IdrA vs MC
Replay Cast
1d 1h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 11h
Light vs JyJ
Soulkey vs hero
WardiTV Weekly
1d 12h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 17h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Snow vs Shinee
Shine vs EffOrt
[ Show More ]
GSL
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - TRS
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.