• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:17
CEST 21:17
KST 04:17
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall9HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy6
Community News
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL63Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form?13FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event22Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster16Weekly Cups (June 16-22): Clem strikes back1
StarCraft 2
General
Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Statistics for vetoed/disliked maps Weekly Cups (June 23-29): Reynor in world title form? PiG Sty Festival #5: Playoffs Preview + Groups Recap
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays Korean Starcraft League Week 77
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion Player “Jedi” cheat on CSL SC uni coach streams logging into betting site Practice Partners (Official)
Tourneys
The Casual Games of the Week Thread CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Grand Finals - Sunday 20:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Blogs
Culture Clash in Video Games…
TrAiDoS
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
Blog #2
tankgirl
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 619 users

Dumb AI

Blogs > Hesmyrr
Post a Reply
Hesmyrr
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada5776 Posts
September 13 2013 16:17 GMT
#1
Usually, when we speak of the dumb AI around here, it's to mock their poor performance against human players. With exception of purely calculable games such as Chess and Checkers, AI has always been a punching bag in the gaming community, rapidly losing their value as viable opponent the instant you find any sort of the gamer that knows what they are doing.

Sure - they might dominate FPS & fighting games or have crazy mutalisk micro, but everyone knows they fall pathetically flat when it comes to actual intelligence. Even as our technology evolve in amazing rate, poor AI keeps returning to damper our enjoyment in innumerable titles.


[image loading]
Me versus alliance of seven computers? I'll actually win a game of Brood War for once!
image shamelessly pilfered from random youtube VOD


Still, I must admit that when thinking of artificial intelligence, it had often been limited to what was on front of my monitor. They do have important applications in real life such as in airliner industry, but it's difficult to imagine kind of impact they would have in one's lifestyle.

Or so it had been. For I had underestimated capability of bad AI to ruin one's day.

      OH YES THIS IS A civilized RANT BLOG.


There is one computerized machinery prevalent on everyday life whose efficiency is heavily AI-dependent. Even worse, though it waste minutes of my time every day, it's extremely inconvenient to avoid using it. What is that you may ask:

+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
These jerks.


There are three elevators on the 20-floor apartment I live in. It wasn't too bad at first. However, upon undergoing some kind of upgrade past month, these contraptions has caught the idiot virus. Maybe it's some efficiency measure but if so they are utterly incomprehensible to me.

When you press the button on the main floor, often only one elevator moves up and down while other elevators stay still (on basement, 7th, 15th floor etc.), even when it is being used for a long time. So if somebody's holding elevator for awhile moving stuff on basement or something, we are forced to wait even if there are another elevator available like six floors above us.
Sometimes the elevator goes fully down to the basement before coming back up. At least that I could understand if the building had single elevator, but why not send one elevator to the basement and another to the main floor since more than one aren't being used? And last straw on the back happened today, where elevator went down to pick someone up in the basement, and simply skipped the main floor on it's ascent to the destination.

What in the flying sandwiches?

No, seriously, does anyone who are knowledgeable about the elevator AI know what's going on? I used them for a month yet I'm still clueless about the 'logic' behind them (it doesn't help that the main floor is the only floor which reveal the location of every elevators). My uttermost hope is that I can find some way to exploit the system in place.

"If watching the MSL finals makes you a progamer, then anyone in Korea can do it." - Ha Tae Ki
Roe
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada6002 Posts
September 13 2013 17:06 GMT
#2
That reminds me I should play Sim Tower when I go home for my birthday :p
hp.Shell
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2527 Posts
September 13 2013 19:03 GMT
#3
My best guess at an exploit would be, instead of attempting entry on the main floor, which I assume is L/0, is to simply go to B1 and call from there. You said the elevator went down to pick someone up in the basement, bypassing L, your usual entry. Take the stairs to B1 and see how you fare there. If not, there is certainly some button-code being pressed by someone in the know.

Barring that, take some time and go to different floors and call the elevator at different states (moving, not moving, above, below, etc). Write down what happens in each circumstance. For example, would the ele on 7th come to 1 (L+1) if you called? What is the lowest floor that 7 will come to? 3? How many basement levels are there and what are the idling floors for the other 2 elevators?

I assume it works something like this:
Ele A: idles on L, moves between B(9?) and (3?)
Ele B: idles on 7, moves between 3 and 14
Ele C: idles on 15, moves between 14 and 20

If you figured out how many floors each elevator is travelling between, or even ALLOWED to travel between, then maybe you could figure that it is split evenly, or the top elevator is handling more floors as there is less load up there. It sounds like a system where you will have to hop between elevators to get to the 20th.

Anyway, it could be a fun puzzle if you provided more data about the elevator behaviors.
Please PM me with any songs you like that you think I haven't heard before!
MarlieChurphy
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
United States2063 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-13 19:51:21
September 13 2013 19:06 GMT
#4
lol that screenshot is from my video from years ago. So many haters in the comments.

SC2 AI is pretty fucking annoying, arguably more so than in bw. For example; when using lings early game to surround stuff or attack specific targets, they tend to not fit as many as they can, or they attack some other target too quickly, or they just sit there running around back and forth attacking nothing (when they can attack something). They also tend to double back or fuck up just due to the nature of 3d terrain. It's pretty wack.
RIP SPOR 11/24/11 NEVAR FORGET
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
September 13 2013 23:45 GMT
#5
The only reason artificial "Intelligence" can win at fighting games, is because the computer can sense what button you are pressing, react inhumanly fast, and counter it. If you take that away from them, they have nothing, because then they have to actually think. And we all know they can't do that very well yet.
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
Hesmyrr
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada5776 Posts
September 14 2013 00:17 GMT
#6
      @ hp.Shell
Fortunately the elevators aren't that crazy

Your statement probably has grain of a truth though, where other elevators are on standby for those coming down on higher floors regardless of how much traffic there may be below. It's pretty bad when a (part of) troll theory is what's actually happening in RL!

There are four stories below the main floor by the way, if you're still curious. The fact that you can only track the movement of elevator on the main floor makes it surprisngly annoying to puzzlify things.

      @ MarlieChurphy
I would say small world, but this is TeamLiquid so... :p

Surprising you figured out that from looking at just one frame. It might not be yours since 1v7 BGH is pretty common; at least I hope so because background music on that video was really really bad.

I didn't know SC2 AI had their pathing - attacking? - issues as well! I only played a bit of WoL before quitting, so most of what I know is unfortunately just unfounded stereotypes. The idea that SC2 AI is more annoying than that of SC1 pathing is certainly quite novel.
"If watching the MSL finals makes you a progamer, then anyone in Korea can do it." - Ha Tae Ki
MarlieChurphy
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
United States2063 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-09-14 02:16:28
September 14 2013 02:14 GMT
#7
Even though I have a watermark in the unit portrait, that's not what tipped me off. I remember that game very well because it is a popular video on YT. You can actually watch me abuse the 4pool rushing zergling AI to buy me time until my sunkens and shit finish. Necro is still better than Kpop and all the other shit sc players listen to lol
RIP SPOR 11/24/11 NEVAR FORGET
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12384 Posts
September 14 2013 04:54 GMT
#8
I am pretty sure it's not AI (as in they constantly readjust like the SC BW AI), there is a defined pattern that it follows based upon someone's logistic formula.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
KillerSOS
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States4207 Posts
September 14 2013 05:13 GMT
#9
Elevators are awful.

My law school is in a 40 story building... in between classes is a nightmare. I usually just take 10 flights of stairs rather than wait 20 mins while a completely full elevator stops at our floor every time.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL: ProLeague
18:00
Grand Finals - bo9
Dewalt vs Bonyth
ZZZero.O359
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 777
BRAT_OK 145
StarCraft: Brood War
Mini 529
EffOrt 509
ZZZero.O 359
Soma 154
Aegong 31
Terrorterran 29
LuMiX 9
Stormgate
BeoMulf173
NightEnD9
Dota 2
qojqva3020
League of Legends
Grubby3803
Dendi1794
Counter-Strike
fl0m1740
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King171
Chillindude43
Westballz37
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor731
Liquid`Hasu531
Other Games
FrodaN3038
Gorgc2882
B2W.Neo1052
mouzStarbuck244
elazer89
Pyrionflax67
Sick55
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick42609
EGCTV1615
StarCraft 2
angryscii 28
Other Games
BasetradeTV5
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 39
• Adnapsc2 25
• maralekos21
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler185
League of Legends
• masondota2630
Other Games
• imaqtpie2314
• Shiphtur579
• WagamamaTV337
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
15h 43m
Monday Night Weeklies
20h 43m
Replay Cast
1d 4h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 14h
WardiTV European League
1d 20h
MaNa vs sebesdes
Mixu vs Fjant
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
ShoWTimE vs goblin
Gerald vs Babymarine
Krystianer vs YoungYakov
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV European League
2 days
Jumy vs NightPhoenix
Percival vs Nicoract
ArT vs HiGhDrA
MaxPax vs Harstem
Scarlett vs Shameless
SKillous vs uThermal
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Clem vs Reynor
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Classic vs Cure
FEL
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
FEL
5 days
FEL
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
FEL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 2v2 Season 3
HSC XXVII
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025

Upcoming

2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSL Xiamen Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.