• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:29
CEST 05:29
KST 12:29
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy9[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple2BSL Season 237Weekly Cups (Sep 7-12): SHIN, ByuN, MaxPax double down1StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon101Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Weekly Cups (Sep 13-20): herO scores triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? The Death of Cheese: From a Professional Cheeser
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 GSTL Announcement RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 544 Double Trouble The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 543 Enhanced Defenses Mutation # 542 The Ascended
Brood War
General
Bot on ladder PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague BSL Season 23 BW General Discussion NaDa's Body
Tourneys
PLAYzone Challenge - open offline tour in Prague [ASL22] Ro8 Day 2 [ASL22] Ro16 Group D [ASL22] Ro8 Day 1
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25! Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine All you football fans (soccer)!
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Gaming Intensity, Problemati…
TrAiDoS
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
[meme] I finally understa…
LUCKY_NOOB
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6781 users

Did everyone get better or did I get a lot worse?

Blogs > Esoterikk
Post a Reply
Esoterikk
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1256 Posts
August 14 2013 08:25 GMT
#1
When I first started Sc2 after launch and even mostly through WoL the mantra was always macro will get you to masters. This has been my focus lately and it seems to be costing me games. I have 3 bases saturated usually by minimum 11 minutes as protoss in gold league but my opponents consistently outmacro me and are usually much better than me.

I am Protoss

My main focus right now is make probes until I have 3 bases with 15 on minerals and 6 in gas, build gates with extra minerals and make units, PvZ I go Gate expand into 4 gate stargate, PvT I go 1 gate expo into robo into gates + robo bay stopping at 3 collosi and getting storm, PvP I go 2 gate 3 stalker robo expand.

So Is macro still good enough to get you to diamond? Am I maybe over thinking things and I should just focus even harder on making probes and pylons? any general tips for someone struggling in Gold (i've made it to high plat last season but people seem to be improving and gold seems harder).

*
DazedPvtParts
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
United Kingdom18 Posts
August 14 2013 08:57 GMT
#2
I'm obviously not a pro, but I'll give you my insight as I'm masters 2v2 with my buddy.

In my experience, macro needs to be perfect but it doesn't win you games and neither do your build orders. What wins games is your ability to be able to read your opponents play and react to it accordingly. If you don't like doing that, then make your opponent react to your play, with a build order or some type of aggression, and always keep scouting as unexpected play is a killer.

Cheese is often another way to win a lot of games, whether it be economical cheese or aggressive cheese it doesn't matter but don't get too caught up in either as if it's not working you need to switch out of it into something different.

If you're struggling against certain match ups go watch some VODs of a pro player like Hero and copy what he does to start getting used to a feel of a build what wins.

This is just what I think which obviously won't be the mass census but I love talking Starcraft 2 so if you ever fancy talking about something hit me up and I'll try and give my read on it.
I love da video gamez
MysteryMeat1
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States3292 Posts
August 14 2013 09:03 GMT
#3
Ya having a solid macro backbone is of absolute importance. However small modifications should be made. If you see the toss going dts, you shouldn't be like w/e ima go sg. Making/guessing reads and adjusting is also important. However I would post a replay. There's a difference in macro between a gold player and a masters level player. Honestly you probably aren't "macroing" correctly.
"Cause ya know, Style before victory." -The greatest mafia player alive
aleun
Profile Joined November 2009
United States27 Posts
August 14 2013 11:57 GMT
#4
I can actually sympathize with this. I was mid-masters a year ago in WoL and then moved to league for a while. I was placed in gold in HotS and I thought I would steamroll my way to at least diamond but I'm actually dropping games here and there due to my opponents having superior macro and decision-making. The general skill level has definitely improved, I think.
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
August 14 2013 12:25 GMT
#5
On August 14 2013 17:57 DazedPvtParts wrote:
I'm obviously not a pro, but I'll give you my insight as I'm masters 2v2 with my buddy.


Not the best way to get across your skill level.

OT: Macro is what you build on to make higher leagues, also whilst you may be thinking you're doing well on the macro front you might also not be doing as well as you might think, I know I felt like I was a king in gold when actually I was terrible.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Tufas
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Austria2259 Posts
August 14 2013 12:39 GMT
#6
I did not play for a whole year and the only games I win are micro battles, everyone seems to have better macro than me ...

I feel you bro
Where is my ACE flair
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12887 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-14 13:28:22
August 14 2013 13:27 GMT
#7
I didn't play SC2 for around 3 months and I falls from all race diamond to my main zerg race barely beating gold lol
I think it's due to my bad attention though, I kept doing things that aren't so important like creep spreading when I should be injecting or spreading lings around
ZvT especially is horrible, there are some very nice tank spot that just makes it super hard to engage. Or one well placed mine kills like 20 lings into lose
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Heat_023
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada160 Posts
August 14 2013 13:59 GMT
#8
On August 14 2013 17:25 Esoterikk wrote:
When I first started Sc2 after launch and even mostly through WoL the mantra was always macro will get you to masters. This has been my focus lately and it seems to be costing me games. I have 3 bases saturated usually by minimum 11 minutes as protoss in gold league but my opponents consistently outmacro me and are usually much better than me.

I am Protoss

My main focus right now is make probes until I have 3 bases with 15 on minerals and 6 in gas, build gates with extra minerals and make units, PvZ I go Gate expand into 4 gate stargate, PvT I go 1 gate expo into robo into gates + robo bay stopping at 3 collosi and getting storm, PvP I go 2 gate 3 stalker robo expand.

So Is macro still good enough to get you to diamond? Am I maybe over thinking things and I should just focus even harder on making probes and pylons? any general tips for someone struggling in Gold (i've made it to high plat last season but people seem to be improving and gold seems harder).


Okay I think I got this one. Perfect macro doesn't guarantee a win in the first 8 minutes of a game anymore (yes, it absolutely did change), even in platinum (I can't talk for gold), because it is easier and most players have tighten up. Perfect execution (macrowise) of a 2 gate expand, for example, can end up in a loss if zerg goes for an all-in. Also, perfect execution (macrowise) of 1 base blink doesn't necessarily give you a win instantly if toss goes for robo or zerg for mass speedlings.

But still, macro still wins in gold, platinum and diamond after 8 minutes. But not macro alone : macro while harassing, macro while defending, while scouting etc. No matter how well you spend your ressources, you can always end up losing 16 probes to a drop if you don't pay attention.

Op, if you're still reading this, I would tell you, as a diamond zerg and platinum protoss, that your next step may consist in learning one build for each matchup, preferably a build that's safe up until around the 8 min mark, so that it allows you to differentiate yourself from your opponent by still having solid macro in the mid-game.
twitch.tv/heat023
adwodon
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom592 Posts
August 14 2013 15:01 GMT
#9
The problem with 'macro' is that people in lower leagues just see it as what you do before attacks start flying.

When someone says macro will get you into masters, what they actually mean is that if you can constantly attack, deal with any attack and still be macroing really well (perfect is obv impossible) then you can get to masters without really needing to over think your strategy. It's not hard to macro undisturbed, try practicing on 'multitask' maps where you keep moving stuff around whilst macroing and dealing with attacks etc

Suddenly your macro goes to crap but thats OK, practice makes perfect. Frankly I think if you're mechanically that good you're already in masters, so for most people on the progression curve probably won't get into masters will macro alone, they'll do it with decent mechanics and decent strategy rather than brilliant mechanics and subpar strategy but some pro with brilliant mechanics could probably break masters will no real strategy.

Also yes people have been getting better.
Japhybaby
Profile Blog Joined February 2013
Canada301 Posts
August 14 2013 16:55 GMT
#10
The way i see it is that there are general trends of play and sometimes there are players who do not have the most well rounded play but are able to copy a good strategy and win because of the strategy. I think right now there are some strong plays going around.

I don't think good macro will win you games. Knowing what to focus on when is a much better skill that knowing how to be super duper efficient with your economy in myopinion. What i mean is that i think the game should be looked at as a whole and not some thing to be divided. Good play is good play overall.
hold on! i'm callin' you back to the pool, and we'll dazzle them all!
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
August 14 2013 17:12 GMT
#11
Pure macro is not really enough in SC2 (it is in BW though), there's too many "hard counters" and shit that just kills you. Macro is still the most important aspect of good play, but scouting and reacting is key, having a ton of units won't help if your opponent is going for an aggressive style with a composition which counters yours.
Ovni
Profile Joined March 2013
89 Posts
August 14 2013 18:22 GMT
#12
having strong macro is still enough to cruise into diamond league, people just really over-complicate things. just practice your macro (building units constantly, no supply blocks, probes constantly) and ignore whether you win or lose and you'll see huge improvements. once you've gotten to the point where you can "macro well" without thinking, you can focus on the strategic things like when to switch from colossus to storm PvT, etc.

i almost never offrace when i feel like playing T i can play it a master league level just because having solid macro (pressing 5 and 6, building SCVs and units) is so ingrained in my fingers.

to answer your question - YES, keep focusing on probes and pylons. Day9 is right.
Esoterikk
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1256 Posts
August 15 2013 08:04 GMT
#13
Yea it's strange, I remember silver in WoL was like 1 base shenanigans but I just got done on my silver account on EU and people were literally pulling off pro builds within the meta like zealot/archon/immo PvP and Roach/Hydra/Pully flying snake into ultra.

It's pretty crazy, being in silver and not winning every game is pretty god damn demoralizing.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12887 Posts
August 15 2013 10:42 GMT
#14
^ forgot to say, I think now people can get placed into diamond/master anymore (not sure if diamond is included), so a lot of the silver players are in fact not silver.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 31m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 237
Nina 71
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 8385
Terrorterran 5
Dota 2
monkeys_forever959
NeuroSwarm197
febbydoto54
League of Legends
JimRising 701
Counter-Strike
taco 586
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox600
Other Games
summit1g10959
WinterStarcraft381
C9.Mang0336
PiGStarcraft250
ViBE162
Maynarde160
UpATreeSC54
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1248
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 423
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 109
• mYiSmile111
• practicex 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki8
• Pr0nogo 5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo814
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
6h 31m
Replay Cast
20h 31m
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
GSL
3 days
Yamato Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Soma vs Jaedong
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Leta vs Soulkey
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Super Anchor Qualifying S3
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

ASL Season 22
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Calamity Invitational
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Custodian Cup
Copium Cup
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.