• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 06:59
CET 12:59
KST 20:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT28Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0243LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2
StarCraft 2
General
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament How do the "codes" work in GSL?
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare Mutation # 512 Overclocked
Brood War
General
CasterMuse Youtube BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02 TvZ is the most complete match up A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [LIVE] [S:21] ASL Season Open Day 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Beyond All Reason Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread New broswer game : STG-World
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Mexico's Drug War Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Ask and answer stupid questions here!
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Inside the Communication of …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1122 users

Did everyone get better or did I get a lot worse?

Blogs > Esoterikk
Post a Reply
Esoterikk
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1256 Posts
August 14 2013 08:25 GMT
#1
When I first started Sc2 after launch and even mostly through WoL the mantra was always macro will get you to masters. This has been my focus lately and it seems to be costing me games. I have 3 bases saturated usually by minimum 11 minutes as protoss in gold league but my opponents consistently outmacro me and are usually much better than me.

I am Protoss

My main focus right now is make probes until I have 3 bases with 15 on minerals and 6 in gas, build gates with extra minerals and make units, PvZ I go Gate expand into 4 gate stargate, PvT I go 1 gate expo into robo into gates + robo bay stopping at 3 collosi and getting storm, PvP I go 2 gate 3 stalker robo expand.

So Is macro still good enough to get you to diamond? Am I maybe over thinking things and I should just focus even harder on making probes and pylons? any general tips for someone struggling in Gold (i've made it to high plat last season but people seem to be improving and gold seems harder).

*
DazedPvtParts
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
United Kingdom18 Posts
August 14 2013 08:57 GMT
#2
I'm obviously not a pro, but I'll give you my insight as I'm masters 2v2 with my buddy.

In my experience, macro needs to be perfect but it doesn't win you games and neither do your build orders. What wins games is your ability to be able to read your opponents play and react to it accordingly. If you don't like doing that, then make your opponent react to your play, with a build order or some type of aggression, and always keep scouting as unexpected play is a killer.

Cheese is often another way to win a lot of games, whether it be economical cheese or aggressive cheese it doesn't matter but don't get too caught up in either as if it's not working you need to switch out of it into something different.

If you're struggling against certain match ups go watch some VODs of a pro player like Hero and copy what he does to start getting used to a feel of a build what wins.

This is just what I think which obviously won't be the mass census but I love talking Starcraft 2 so if you ever fancy talking about something hit me up and I'll try and give my read on it.
I love da video gamez
MysteryMeat1
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States3292 Posts
August 14 2013 09:03 GMT
#3
Ya having a solid macro backbone is of absolute importance. However small modifications should be made. If you see the toss going dts, you shouldn't be like w/e ima go sg. Making/guessing reads and adjusting is also important. However I would post a replay. There's a difference in macro between a gold player and a masters level player. Honestly you probably aren't "macroing" correctly.
"Cause ya know, Style before victory." -The greatest mafia player alive
aleun
Profile Joined November 2009
United States27 Posts
August 14 2013 11:57 GMT
#4
I can actually sympathize with this. I was mid-masters a year ago in WoL and then moved to league for a while. I was placed in gold in HotS and I thought I would steamroll my way to at least diamond but I'm actually dropping games here and there due to my opponents having superior macro and decision-making. The general skill level has definitely improved, I think.
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
August 14 2013 12:25 GMT
#5
On August 14 2013 17:57 DazedPvtParts wrote:
I'm obviously not a pro, but I'll give you my insight as I'm masters 2v2 with my buddy.


Not the best way to get across your skill level.

OT: Macro is what you build on to make higher leagues, also whilst you may be thinking you're doing well on the macro front you might also not be doing as well as you might think, I know I felt like I was a king in gold when actually I was terrible.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Tufas
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Austria2259 Posts
August 14 2013 12:39 GMT
#6
I did not play for a whole year and the only games I win are micro battles, everyone seems to have better macro than me ...

I feel you bro
Where is my ACE flair
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12683 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-14 13:28:22
August 14 2013 13:27 GMT
#7
I didn't play SC2 for around 3 months and I falls from all race diamond to my main zerg race barely beating gold lol
I think it's due to my bad attention though, I kept doing things that aren't so important like creep spreading when I should be injecting or spreading lings around
ZvT especially is horrible, there are some very nice tank spot that just makes it super hard to engage. Or one well placed mine kills like 20 lings into lose
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Heat_023
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada160 Posts
August 14 2013 13:59 GMT
#8
On August 14 2013 17:25 Esoterikk wrote:
When I first started Sc2 after launch and even mostly through WoL the mantra was always macro will get you to masters. This has been my focus lately and it seems to be costing me games. I have 3 bases saturated usually by minimum 11 minutes as protoss in gold league but my opponents consistently outmacro me and are usually much better than me.

I am Protoss

My main focus right now is make probes until I have 3 bases with 15 on minerals and 6 in gas, build gates with extra minerals and make units, PvZ I go Gate expand into 4 gate stargate, PvT I go 1 gate expo into robo into gates + robo bay stopping at 3 collosi and getting storm, PvP I go 2 gate 3 stalker robo expand.

So Is macro still good enough to get you to diamond? Am I maybe over thinking things and I should just focus even harder on making probes and pylons? any general tips for someone struggling in Gold (i've made it to high plat last season but people seem to be improving and gold seems harder).


Okay I think I got this one. Perfect macro doesn't guarantee a win in the first 8 minutes of a game anymore (yes, it absolutely did change), even in platinum (I can't talk for gold), because it is easier and most players have tighten up. Perfect execution (macrowise) of a 2 gate expand, for example, can end up in a loss if zerg goes for an all-in. Also, perfect execution (macrowise) of 1 base blink doesn't necessarily give you a win instantly if toss goes for robo or zerg for mass speedlings.

But still, macro still wins in gold, platinum and diamond after 8 minutes. But not macro alone : macro while harassing, macro while defending, while scouting etc. No matter how well you spend your ressources, you can always end up losing 16 probes to a drop if you don't pay attention.

Op, if you're still reading this, I would tell you, as a diamond zerg and platinum protoss, that your next step may consist in learning one build for each matchup, preferably a build that's safe up until around the 8 min mark, so that it allows you to differentiate yourself from your opponent by still having solid macro in the mid-game.
twitch.tv/heat023
adwodon
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom592 Posts
August 14 2013 15:01 GMT
#9
The problem with 'macro' is that people in lower leagues just see it as what you do before attacks start flying.

When someone says macro will get you into masters, what they actually mean is that if you can constantly attack, deal with any attack and still be macroing really well (perfect is obv impossible) then you can get to masters without really needing to over think your strategy. It's not hard to macro undisturbed, try practicing on 'multitask' maps where you keep moving stuff around whilst macroing and dealing with attacks etc

Suddenly your macro goes to crap but thats OK, practice makes perfect. Frankly I think if you're mechanically that good you're already in masters, so for most people on the progression curve probably won't get into masters will macro alone, they'll do it with decent mechanics and decent strategy rather than brilliant mechanics and subpar strategy but some pro with brilliant mechanics could probably break masters will no real strategy.

Also yes people have been getting better.
Japhybaby
Profile Blog Joined February 2013
Canada301 Posts
August 14 2013 16:55 GMT
#10
The way i see it is that there are general trends of play and sometimes there are players who do not have the most well rounded play but are able to copy a good strategy and win because of the strategy. I think right now there are some strong plays going around.

I don't think good macro will win you games. Knowing what to focus on when is a much better skill that knowing how to be super duper efficient with your economy in myopinion. What i mean is that i think the game should be looked at as a whole and not some thing to be divided. Good play is good play overall.
hold on! i'm callin' you back to the pool, and we'll dazzle them all!
Tobberoth
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden6375 Posts
August 14 2013 17:12 GMT
#11
Pure macro is not really enough in SC2 (it is in BW though), there's too many "hard counters" and shit that just kills you. Macro is still the most important aspect of good play, but scouting and reacting is key, having a ton of units won't help if your opponent is going for an aggressive style with a composition which counters yours.
Ovni
Profile Joined March 2013
89 Posts
August 14 2013 18:22 GMT
#12
having strong macro is still enough to cruise into diamond league, people just really over-complicate things. just practice your macro (building units constantly, no supply blocks, probes constantly) and ignore whether you win or lose and you'll see huge improvements. once you've gotten to the point where you can "macro well" without thinking, you can focus on the strategic things like when to switch from colossus to storm PvT, etc.

i almost never offrace when i feel like playing T i can play it a master league level just because having solid macro (pressing 5 and 6, building SCVs and units) is so ingrained in my fingers.

to answer your question - YES, keep focusing on probes and pylons. Day9 is right.
Esoterikk
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1256 Posts
August 15 2013 08:04 GMT
#13
Yea it's strange, I remember silver in WoL was like 1 base shenanigans but I just got done on my silver account on EU and people were literally pulling off pro builds within the meta like zealot/archon/immo PvP and Roach/Hydra/Pully flying snake into ultra.

It's pretty crazy, being in silver and not winning every game is pretty god damn demoralizing.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12683 Posts
August 15 2013 10:42 GMT
#14
^ forgot to say, I think now people can get placed into diamond/master anymore (not sure if diamond is included), so a lot of the silver players are in fact not silver.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 225
Lowko151
Rex 62
TKL 30
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 34138
Calm 8286
Sea 4948
Rain 2223
Horang2 1583
Flash 844
Bisu 767
BeSt 313
firebathero 256
Hyuk 178
[ Show more ]
Last 165
Dewaltoss 149
hero 129
EffOrt 115
Mong 107
Light 76
Rush 66
Soulkey 65
ToSsGirL 59
Hm[arnc] 30
Barracks 27
Yoon 24
sorry 18
910 16
Terrorterran 15
scan(afreeca) 14
Free 13
Icarus 5
Dota 2
XcaliburYe64
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1834
x6flipin382
allub347
kRYSTAL_36
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes277
Other Games
singsing2189
Liquid`RaSZi981
B2W.Neo683
Fuzer 204
XaKoH 204
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick755
StarCraft 2
WardiTV70
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 77
• 3DClanTV 4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2017
• Stunt530
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Winter Champion…
1m
Rex62
TKL 30
OSC
12h 1m
The PondCast
22h 1m
Replay Cast
1d 12h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
SC Evo Complete
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-22
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS5
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
WardiTV Winter 2026
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.