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Right now I'm gold 5, and was silver for S2 up until about ~2 months ago. I've been fluctuating between gold 5 and gold 4, with insane win streaks and loss streaks. It's really hard to get steady improvement, which is one thing I'm really not used to since I was a SC2 player. In SC2, I started out in bronze. I liked the game and wanted to get better, so I just played more and more and eventually I got up into masters league. In League it's different. I got on a winstreak, and lucked into gold league. Now I can't get any higher than gold 4/gold 5. I don't feel like I'm any better then I was when I was silver. It feels like there's no real way to track progress in LoL compared to SC2. In SC2, I'd know "oh with this build order I should have ~100 supply @ 10 minutes optimally" and then I could practice that over and over until I could get that. When I was in bronze, I couldn't get close to the number, but gradually I worked up to it and could do the build perfectly. Same thing with APM or micro. I could SEE actual improvement happening.
In LoL, you get a lot of games that end before 20 mins for either team. Sometimes bot + mid feed really hard, and you're down 0-10 in kills and 2 dragons before 15 minutes. As a top laner, what are you supposed to do when their mid, adc and jungle are all fed and you're up there going even with their top lane? You just lose. Other times the same thing happens but you're on the winning side. It feels like, in solo queue at least, a great deal of the game is tied up in luck. Are your teammates going to play well and dominate their lane? Yeah, sometimes. Are your teammates going to feed hard and be useless from that point on? Also, yeah, sometimes. Now, I always hear from pros that the one thing you can be sure of, is yourself. And I agree with that. If I'm playing a champ I'm comfortable with, I can usually come out of lane ahead of the other guy. But since it's a team game, does it matter much? In the long run, the 30 cs or 1 kill I'm ahead of their mid laner isn't really going to impact the game much, is it? So in theory, I beat him in mid lane because I'm up in farm + a kill. But you have to look at the whole game in general too. Let's say my adc goes 0-3 to theirs in lane. Now that mid lane advantage is a lot less, right? What if since my bot lane lost so hard, the enemy jungler camps top lane and snowballs their top too. Now we have 2 lanes that lost, and even though I "won" my lane, I practically have zero advantage over their mid. That's just something I'm not used to I guess, since I came from a 1v1 game. Advantages in SC2 are huge. If I snipe his 3rd base and have mine up, I know that I'm way ahead. If I get more farm in lane on LoL, I'm ahead, but not by enough that it matters, you know?
One last thing I'll talk about is mechanics in general. I guess it's good for the game's popularity, and RIOT, but it feels like there's not enough of a mechanical gap between players. Or at least that's what I prefer, I guess. In SC2, if I have 250 apm and the guy I'm playing with has only 150, I can use that to my advantage by out-multitasking him. There's no such thing like that in LoL. All the pros themselves have pretty much even mechanics. They all can farm about the same level, they can't really do anything that really outplays the opponent hard, and so they're basically on the same playing field. The same thing happens in FPS games, too. Think about Counter Strike vs. CoD. In CS, an experienced player will completely and utterly destroy a new player because he has way better aim. In CoD, the new player will be a lot closer to the experienced player's level of skill, and the score in a 1v1 would be a lot closer. This is why CS has been a way better competitive game than Call of Duty. In League of Legends, is there really a big difference between a silver player and a gold player? Nah not really. You only really see huge divisions in player skill when you compare like bronze to plat, or silver to diamond.
So where am I going with all this? Well it feels like I've stagnated as a player for those reasons above. I feel like I'm not able to get a higher rank because of teammates (yes I know, dunning kruger, everyone feels the same way blah blah blah...), because of not being able to outplay my opponent enough, and because of no real way of tracking improvement. If there are some high level LoL players here that would give me tips, or just comment on what I think about the game, that would be really cool. Thanks.
 
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The main difference between sc2 and LoL is that sc2 is 1v1, LoL is 5v5. By thinking of the game as a solo game, you will always be stuck at a certain level, because the truth is you need to progress as a team and not as an individual. 5 highly skill players with no coordination will almost always loose to less skilled players with excellent team play.
TBH I think your best shot is to look for a team/ clan, and learn to play with them, and progress as a team.
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United States15536 Posts
One thing I haven't noticed in your explanation is a lack of replays. Have you tried LoLRecorder? I'm finding that I'm learning a ton every time I watch myself play.
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As a (very bad) silver support main player I can tell you that people don't know how to play when they are a little bit behind. Some of them are too defensive and allow to opponent to farm without any harassment (and thus they increase their lead) or are very aggressive, in order to reclaim the lost advantage.
I think LoL is mostly about vision control and knowing how and when to land your abilities. In my case I usually play Thresh (when he is not banned), Sona, Nami or Janna. I found that picking supports that can get your team away from bad situations (all of the previous champs' ultimates) is the best thing to have aas a low level support.
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On June 20 2013 21:49 Douillos wrote:
The main difference between sc2 and LoL is that sc2 is 1v1, LoL is 5v5. By thinking of the game as a solo game, you will always be stuck at a certain level, because the truth is you need to progress as a team and not as an individual. 5 highly skill players with no coordination will almost always loose to less skilled players with excellent team play.
TBH I think your best shot is to look for a team/ clan, and learn to play with them, and progress as a team.
That's not really true. Take any really good LoL player and give them a new account, they will be top of the ladder in no-time.
As for how to do it, I agree it's pretty hard to track in LoL, there's less individual impact than Dota for example. However, the same basics apply: If you are better than you opponents, you should win your lane. The problem most players have is that they are satisfied with this and then blame the other lanes. That's NOT how you rise in rank. What you need to do is take it to the next step: Take your advantage to the other lanes. This is why mid is considered a good position to rise in rank: it's easier to gank from mid.
Basically, win your lane with great farm, then immediately turn around the other lanes. If bot is feeding, you WILL lose the game eventually if the opponents are decent, so you have to go down there and kill the opponents... over and over, until they are the ones feeding you + your bot.
There's a limit to how much impact you can make, especially in Lol, and it depends on the game... but rising in rank is all about the long run. If you win your lane every game, you might still lose more than 50% of all games, but if you always make a huge impact in other lanes, you will win more than 50% since teams are balanced. Your team might be shit compared to the opponents next game, but in a hundred games, chances are your team will be the OP team just as often as the opposing team, and most of the time, the teams will probably be quite equal.
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Chat is the most powerful tool available in LoL. Learn how to work with your team. All you really need to do is to plant a seed of motivation and coordination, and if you're successful the rest will hopefully follow. Also remember that you will and should not always be the one calling/making the plays.
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After having played ~500 games of LOL in 2011 (before dota2 was released) i felt the exact same thing you did, my rating flucturated between 2050 and 1750 constantly.
Without trying to flame LOL i dont know how to answer it, but imho the impact of one player is far less than in dota/hon and the room to outplay your opponent is also smaller.
edit: oh you already said something like that, so i guess i can simply agree 
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On June 20 2013 22:42 gaymon wrote:
Without trying to flame LOL i dont know how to answer it, but imho the impact of one player is far less than in dota/hon and the room to outplay your opponent is also smaller.
Think of it the other way round: it's much harder for a single person to make an impact/outplay the opponent. You just have to be that much closer to perfection.
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Im only gold I but by watching streams i realized how people in gold dont value enough objectives like dragon and tower and over value the baron buff. When i was starting playing LoL I asked some questions on this forum. One of the answer I got was "lol is all about experience and decisions" and its very true. Also I feel like (in my league at least) people dont communicate enough. Im most of the time the most active in chat (maybe because I play mostly jungle ;d ). All lanes can influence the state of other lanes. If u win top u already did something for the team because U are stronger then other top laner however u should try to gank mid / get mid tower or try dragon. The same with mid lane and bottom. When im playing support and we crushed our opponents i try to gank mid or get wards farther away to help the team.
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Gold 1 fwiw.
Objectives and solid teamfights win games, winning lane means little if you fail to convert it into any meaningful objectives.
Eg you go 2/0 top, but you fail to push the turret afterwards and you dont contribute towards winning mid or the jungle by pressuring reds/blues. You don't walk down for dragons before the respawn timer is up.
What did you actually do to help the team win? Nothing.
Someone who goes 0/2 but kills the enemy turret and walked down for the dragon fight > pushing mid over, did a shitload more.
Converting your lead into map pressure and objectives wins games. Waving your dick around killing the same guy for diminishing returns of gold and little map pressure achieves nothing.
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Baa?21248 Posts
always kill never not kill
always not die never not not die
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On June 21 2013 03:50 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
always kill never not kill
always not die never not not die
You could probably equate this to a build order equivalent! 10 minutes = have X items and be 10-0 with 100 cs. 20 minutes, 20-0 200cs etc.
Then every loss is just "oh I messed up my build"
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you get above gold by staring at the minimap and playing your best role
true story
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On June 20 2013 22:02 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2013 21:49 Douillos wrote:
The main difference between sc2 and LoL is that sc2 is 1v1, LoL is 5v5. By thinking of the game as a solo game, you will always be stuck at a certain level, because the truth is you need to progress as a team and not as an individual. 5 highly skill players with no coordination will almost always loose to less skilled players with excellent team play.
TBH I think your best shot is to look for a team/ clan, and learn to play with them, and progress as a team. That's not really true. Take any really good LoL player and give them a new account, they will be top of the ladder in no-time. As for how to do it, I agree it's pretty hard to track in LoL, there's less individual impact than Dota for example. However, the same basics apply: If you are better than you opponents, you should win your lane. The problem most players have is that they are satisfied with this and then blame the other lanes. That's NOT how you rise in rank. What you need to do is take it to the next step: Take your advantage to the other lanes. This is why mid is considered a good position to rise in rank: it's easier to gank from mid. Basically, win your lane with great farm, then immediately turn around the other lanes. If bot is feeding, you WILL lose the game eventually if the opponents are decent, so you have to go down there and kill the opponents... over and over, until they are the ones feeding you + your bot. There's a limit to how much impact you can make, especially in Lol, and it depends on the game... but rising in rank is all about the long run. If you win your lane every game, you might still lose more than 50% of all games, but if you always make a huge impact in other lanes, you will win more than 50% since teams are balanced. Your team might be shit compared to the opponents next game, but in a hundred games, chances are your team will be the OP team just as often as the opposing team, and most of the time, the teams will probably be quite equal.
At a certain point people can carry really hard, but for most its best to learn how to carry as a team, rather than to try to 1 man it. Even those best players don't attempt to 1 man it when they are down, they play as a team. I see what you are saying though.
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EPT
