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Active: 1710 users

Hatching an Idea (a SC2 Zerg proposition)

Blogs > FakeDouble
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FakeDouble
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia676 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-04 00:14:24
June 04 2013 00:03 GMT
#1
I just had a random thought about hatcheries that I thought I'd put to metaphorical paper. I don't expect it to be taken seriously, but wouldn't mind it if people gave feedback on it. I thought I'd make it a blog rather than a SC2 general post, probably not enough substance.

Race disclaimer: I used to race-pick Terran, but now I play random.

Anyway looking at the mechanics available to the three races to defend distant expansions:
Terran has PFs, and can use bunkers walled off by depots to fend off small zergling runbys. But making a PF comes at the cost of mules and not being able to lift off. It also cannot deal with a dedicated attack, however, and Terran must bring their army to face the other army.

In HOTS, Protoss gets the nexus cannon and recall. This is a bit limited in that only 1 MsC is allowed, since even a max energy MsC can recall once and cannon once, but it is better than nothing. Maybe it would be nice to allow 2 MsCs once P has a fleet beacon? An issue for another day perhaps.

The zerg hatchery is however boring as hell. Its a hatchery. You inject it and build spines/spores around it. Apart from the one in your main which you upgrade to a hive, all the others will remain hatcheries until your opponent uses drops, warp-ins or run-bys to kill it.

Shouldn't Zerg get an alternate form or a modifiable form of a hatchery? Something more suited as an out-lying expansion but with some drawbacks. Here's what I came up with in 5 minutes (don't take it too seriously):

Zerg can now choose to morph a hatchery (cost 150/100?) into something that has more health and/or more health regen (Health between lair and hive? 3x normal regen? subject to balance). It cannot be morphed into a lair or hive later on. Added hp and regen seems more zerg-like than a PF which is added hp and armor. This new hatchery however is not injectable (similar to no mules from PF), and spreads 50% reduced creep radius (it retracts creep from normal hatchery form, needs creep tumors/overlords around it otherwise buildings built on creep when it was a hatchery will slowly die). A more drastic option is no creep apart from the 5x5 under it. Also, this new hatch acts as a 1-way nydus worm (exit no entry, ground units only of course) that links up with any existing nydus networks. If you have a nydus network in your main, you can teleport your army to defend your 3rd, but if you send your whole army through it, and there is a drop in the main, you now have to walk back the slow way. If you want to teleport back, you need a proper nydus network exit near the 3rd. This doesn't negate the need for a nydus network, rather it promotes both defensive and offensive nydus play, which I think needs more love. This morph should be available following evo chamber? so that you can morph it at your 3rd or 4th before your nydus network is complete (i.e. the nydus network should not be a pre-requisite to gain the benefit of added hp and regen).

Why? hatcheries surrounded by spines and spores in the late-game are boring, and some zerg compositions have trouble defending multiple bases. If you have a nydus network and if you still have a small amount of ground units e.g. roach/hydra and a few infestors that you are willing to split off from your slower broodlord/swarmhosts, you have more options to defend bases instead of relying on fast units like muta-ling. More options are better. Things that split up armies are also better. It doesn't make Zerg defense hole-proof because if they mindlessly offload their whole ground force in one place, they can no longer defend another area quickly (due to 1-way nature). So in order to use it properly, they need to offload only as much unit they think they will need to defend a base from e.g. a drop.

TL;DR:
I propose a new hatchery morph (conceptually it is a Zerg PF that uses units to defend instead of a cannon):
Pros:
More health and health regen
Acts as a 1-way nydus exit for ground units
Does not negate nydus play,
instead promotes it since you need a nydus network anyway
Cons:
Not injectable
Reduced/no creep radius.
Need other forms of creep in order to build spines/spores.
Terminal evolution (Cannot morph into lair or hive).
Requires a nydus network to use nydus exit functionality
Requires evolution chamber for morph

Please post any constructive criticism you have. I didn't think it through too much. Is it absolutely OP (concept wise)? Or do you think it is valid, and can be balanced by tweaking the numbers (cost, health, regen, build time, max unit unload speed)? Or is it too complex?

*
Formerly known as carbonaceous
HataZStriker
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
United States72 Posts
June 04 2013 01:04 GMT
#2
0/5 sorry
http://www.teamliquid.net/blog/goodreads
Antylamon
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1981 Posts
June 04 2013 01:15 GMT
#3
Simply put, this defies asymmetrical balance completely. :/
EatThePath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3943 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-04 01:43:48
June 04 2013 01:40 GMT
#4
The general concept isn't a bad idea to explore, but this particular set of ideas aren't really that great, and in general the idea of a new kind of hatchery doesn't seem like a good design area for zerg from any kind of design framework you'd care to choose. For example, especially in SC2, zerg is about creep spread and the unfolding coverage of the zerg swarm that eats up a map. In BW zergs took far away 3rds a lot of the time that might seem like they are counterexample to this, but I think they actually fit this theme perfectly. The zerg has the mobility and swarminess to "send out spores" to take seed in far flung areas, and they dare you to do something to stop them. But if you can isolate those nascent colonies then it's hard for the zerg to go in and save them. UNTIL they get a nydus network set up, which saw some use in BW games once it got to the later stages. In SC2, creep spread has kind of moved in to dominate this dynamic so connectedness is much more forefront. The way timings have shaken out in SC2 there isn't really a good timing or use for connecting with nyduses, even though on paper it could be a great addition. The APM and reaction time cost of using them doesn't really help that much compared to the sheer DPS of drops and the relative effectiveness of some static defense and a squad of zerglings for drop denial duty. Having a special defensive hatchery just says "don't bother doing the things you're supposed to emphasize, use this crutch instead." It's antithetical to the zerg feel.

OR - from a broader gameplay design standpoint, do we really want another way for people to defend? I think a better direction right now is to make it so winning depends on how well you can throw punches that the opponent can't stop, not give everybody more pads and body armor.

OR - from a balance standpoint, is this even needed, and how much time would we have to spend tweaking numbers to get it balanced, and how much would it change / restrict map design. Possibly it could open up options too, but this is one of those things where change is kind of dangerous. Best opportunity would be when adding other new things in a fresh metagame reset, aka LotV.
Comprehensive strategic intention: DNE
tl2212
Profile Joined April 2013
Belize731 Posts
June 04 2013 02:08 GMT
#5
if you want a better hatchery, just morph it into a lair for more health. pros: still injectable
economy over everything
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
June 04 2013 03:16 GMT
#6
Are you related to Atlas[Mech]?
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
FakeDouble
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia676 Posts
June 04 2013 07:07 GMT
#7
On June 04 2013 12:16 ninazerg wrote:
Are you related to Atlas[Mech]?


No idea who that is, sorry. Have they come up with a similar idea before?
Formerly known as carbonaceous
ninazerg
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States7291 Posts
June 05 2013 00:38 GMT
#8
On June 04 2013 16:07 FakeDouble wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 04 2013 12:16 ninazerg wrote:
Are you related to Atlas[Mech]?


No idea who that is, sorry. Have they come up with a similar idea before?


He came up with some really cool ideas that would radically alter StarCraft forever. Truly a man ahead of his time.
"If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky
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