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Modern Art

Blogs > fatfail
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fatfail
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States386 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-09 17:49:14
February 09 2013 17:46 GMT
#1
Yesterday, I went to listen to a violin recital at the San Francisco Symphony. This program was as follows.

Program
Bach
Partita No. 3 in E major for Solo Violin

Avner Dorman
Nigunim (Violin Sonata No. 3)

William Bolcom
Suite No. 2 for Solo Violin (Music Accord Commission)

Beethoven
Violin Sonata No. 9 in A major, Kreutzer

Although I greatly enjoyed the Beethoven and Bach, the two contemporary pieces sounded like trash. I could not hear a single bit of melody, grace, or inspiration. The composers merely tried to appear unique by introducing various ugly avant-garde techniques such as pressing the bow excessively hard to create a "sqeaking" sound or slamming the fingers onto the soundbox to make some percussion noises. Is this music?

MERRIAM WEBSTER

Music:
1. a : the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity
b : vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony

Now we know what music is, we can confidently say that contemporary music isn't music. In both art and music, things went from bad to worse in the early to mid 20th century. We had composers such as Stravinsky and Prokofiev whose music was not very harmonious, but the melody and intention was still recognizable and palatable. Then, a musical vacuum came into existence; nothing good musically has been produced ever since. Similarly in art, we had stupid assholes create bullshit. Why is "Fountain" a piece of art? Its trash; it takes no skill to create such a work.

[image loading]
Hey asshole, you call this art?

And Jackson Pollock; what the fuck? I might as well piss on a paper and sell it for a million dollars.

So the conclusion of this blog is fuck you. I payed 60 dollars to listen to a concert yesterday and wasted half of the money. Its because of people like you who think you are so nouveau and hip by pretending to see some meaning in modern art that is created merely out of a lack of inspiration and a lack of talent. If you guys could get your heads out of your asses and tell these people that their work is shit, to their face, they might try and create something worth looking at or worth listening to.

*
Kong fan... <3 Stork <3 Jangbi <3 Yellow <3 Fantasy
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18876 Posts
February 09 2013 17:55 GMT
#2
Well, in the spirit of your blog, I've decided to pull my head out of my ass and tell you, to your face, that your blog is shit. Maybe you ought to try and create something worth looking at?
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Kaeru
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Sweden552 Posts
February 09 2013 18:00 GMT
#3
--- Nuked ---
Kaeru
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Sweden552 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-09 18:05:47
February 09 2013 18:05 GMT
#4
--- Nuked ---
Frits
Profile Joined March 2003
11782 Posts
February 09 2013 18:24 GMT
#5
Ugh that mandolin concert is just so random it annoys the hell out of me. I wish modern classical composers would focus a little more on harmony and melody, even dubstep manages to do this...
TheAmazombie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States3714 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-09 18:36:10
February 09 2013 18:31 GMT
#6
I used to agree, but part of the Modern Art movement, which it seems you are lashing out against, which were the abstract impressionist, was just fields and lines of color. There were many things going on in art and after the turn of the 20th century, art got strange and out there with Picasso, Duchamp, Dali, and others. The point of people like Rothko and Pollack, and the other abstract impressionists that just did splatters or fields of color were to reduce art back down to its basic elements, color on a medium. They were asking the questions of "What is art?" and to them the answer was simple: color and lines on a canvas or other medium. For someone like Pollack, also, it was about the style, the creation process, the spontaneity, and that was what made it interesting.

While they may or may not have been talented, which is up for debate for certain, their art was meaningful, as most art is, because of its station and place in time. Outside of that context, quite often they don't make much sense. I mean, look at something like the Mona Lisa. Before it was stolen from the Louvre, it was not considered that important of a painting. Interest in it grew because of that event. Outside of that, what is it but a picture of a woman smiling?

I am not disagreeing that there are a lot of modern art that is just junk and people thinking that they can put anything on a canvas or weld any random bits together and call it art is just wrong, as most people think they can write poetry just by mixing metaphors to sound pathetically deep. I just say that some art, in order to understand or appreciate it or why it is famous, you have to know or study some of the background, the time frame, or the artist to enjoy.

Some art is amazing just by looking at it, like The Pieta by Michelangelo. It is so perfect in its creation, you don't need to understand anything else about it. Other art, like Rothko's #14, make sense for the time...the statement that was behind them, the artist's view on the state of art or whatever, and without that information they are just shit.
We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery, we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. -Charlie Chaplin
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-10 03:09:02
February 09 2013 18:47 GMT
#7
Administrator
slowbacontron
Profile Joined October 2012
United States7722 Posts
February 09 2013 19:36 GMT
#8
I don't pretend to understand modern music and art, and I've done some hating of my own on them, but look at these composers you're talking about. Avner Dorman has a Doctorate from Juilliard and his works have been performed by several prestigious orchestras. Similar things can be said about William Bolcom. Whatever they are doing with their music, one thing you can be sure of is that they are not some random weirdos whacking together a bunch of notes. I agree with you on the point that music is running out of harmonious and melodious phrases to compose, so composers are turning to weirder and less explored aspects of music to make their art. But really, this is what has been happening for at least the last century, if not the entire history of music. The story of The Rite of Spring's debut is a very well known one; what is now considered one of Stravinsky's greatest works was greeted by a riot and all-around derision. Basically, I think that each era of music brings with it a new element that often can be difficult for its contemporaries to understand

But I still have my doubts about 4:33. What is up with that being a professional work??
jjakji fan
jrkirby
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1511 Posts
February 09 2013 21:32 GMT
#9
My opinion on modern art: Sure it's art, but it's not any art I care about.

You can liken it to builds in starcraft. As terran, you could choose to build 20 supply depots before building your barracks or another command center. Is this a build order? Absolutely. Would anyone really care to use this build order? I hope not.
radscorpion9
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada2252 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-09 23:38:55
February 09 2013 23:35 GMT
#10
Edit: Well the brown square isn't that bad. I mean at the time I guess people would find it shocking and invigorating to say "WHOA. He didn't paint a picture, or a scene, he went back to the basics and painted a square! REVOLUTION IN ART!!". It sounds kind of silly in retrospect, but I can somewhat understand their position.

But that's okay, just have to stay away from that, lower my blood pressure, and appreciate the truly inspiring and interesting art that is out there in many galleries. I sympathize with your situation. I guess some people enjoy those orchestras though; I mean its hard to believe that they're *all* trying hard to like avant-garde things that they normally wouldn't listen to just to look good in front of their peers, right?
Meadowlark
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States349 Posts
February 10 2013 00:01 GMT
#11
Wasn't the goal of pieces like "Fountain" and "4:33" to provoke discussion over what art or music was? Given that you had such a strong reaction, I feel like that makes them successes. That being said, I legitimately enjoyed the Bolcolm suite as a piece of music. Different strokes.
''Three bottles of Monster in a day; I'm pumped as fuck." -Stephano
TheAmazombie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States3714 Posts
February 10 2013 00:07 GMT
#12
On February 10 2013 09:01 Meadowlark wrote:
Wasn't the goal of pieces like "Fountain" and "4:33" to provoke discussion over what art or music was? Given that you had such a strong reaction, I feel like that makes them successes. That being said, I legitimately enjoyed the Bolcolm suite as a piece of music. Different strokes.


Yeah, that was often part of the point of modern art and music pieces. I always like to add pieces like "Vexations" by Erik Satie to this group...it was early days of post-romantic music into the modernist stuff.
We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery, we need humanity. More than cleverness, we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost. -Charlie Chaplin
Loser777
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
1931 Posts
February 10 2013 02:15 GMT
#13
Here are some tracks that I enjoy, in increasing distance from your dictionary definition of music. Where do you draw the line between music and bullshit?


6581
fatfail
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States386 Posts
February 10 2013 02:35 GMT
#14
Maybe I'm extreme in my response and wo1fwood is correct when he says I am uneducated. Is this modern art something I should try and appreciate?
Kong fan... <3 Stork <3 Jangbi <3 Yellow <3 Fantasy
Suichoy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada397 Posts
February 10 2013 02:36 GMT
#15
On February 10 2013 02:46 fatfail wrote:Now we know what music is, we can confidently say that contemporary music isn't music.


Mm I don't think so but I get where you're coming from. Clearly, these pieces aren't doing it for you right now but if you look hard enough, I'm sure you'll find some modern music that you do like, even if it is just 1 piece. That's what did it for me. I found some pieces that I liked and started exploring from there and that was enough to justify the genre for me.
Fighter
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1531 Posts
February 10 2013 03:37 GMT
#16
On February 10 2013 11:35 fatfail wrote:
Maybe I'm extreme in my response and wo1fwood is correct when he says I am uneducated. Is this modern art something I should try and appreciate?


Only if you actually care, and you really want to understand the cultural and theoretical developments of the last century.

It takes a lot of education to get to the point where you can appreciate and actually understand what such artists are doing though. No offense, but I think you're a little far from that. Suffice to say though, what most people refer to as "modern art" isn't just the bullshit that a lot of people think it is. Whether or not it's actually aesthetically pleasing is certainly still an open question though
For Aiur???
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-10 03:50:37
February 10 2013 03:48 GMT
#17
On February 10 2013 11:35 fatfail wrote:
Maybe I'm extreme in my response and wo1fwood is correct when he says I am uneducated. Is this modern art something I should try and appreciate?


I wouldn't bother, if you don't care already. you should however spend some time considering why such a thing exists, and why THEN.
shikata ga nai
fatfail
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States386 Posts
February 10 2013 04:03 GMT
#18
On February 10 2013 12:37 Fighter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2013 11:35 fatfail wrote:
Maybe I'm extreme in my response and wo1fwood is correct when he says I am uneducated. Is this modern art something I should try and appreciate?


Only if you actually care, and you really want to understand the cultural and theoretical developments of the last century.

It takes a lot of education to get to the point where you can appreciate and actually understand what such artists are doing though. No offense, but I think you're a little far from that. Suffice to say though, what most people refer to as "modern art" isn't just the bullshit that a lot of people think it is. Whether or not it's actually aesthetically pleasing is certainly still an open question though

By that interpretation of modern art, anything can be construed as art simply by fabricating a cultural context. Yet again, you are using modern art in the ordinary fashion, which is to feign erudition and superiority by pretending to see what you can't. I'm not completely uneducated trash like you might think; I've been classically trained in violin and piano for 12 years, and I have studied art history through travel, documentary series, and books. What value does "art" hold if it cannot stand alone and holds onto popular culture as its crutch?
Kong fan... <3 Stork <3 Jangbi <3 Yellow <3 Fantasy
I_Love_Katheryn
Profile Blog Joined February 2013
United States41 Posts
February 10 2013 04:17 GMT
#19
I don't believe that any old thing can be called art. There must be some objective criteria to consider it as such.
You've been here in the dark for way too long, do you remember how it felt in the sunlight? You're still smiling through the pain you're hiding in, but everyone can see that something's just not right.
Deleted User 135096
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3624 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-10 05:13:46
February 10 2013 05:05 GMT
#20
I hope you understand that you hit a nerve (because I am a composer) and that also I was trying not to be derogatory (though it seems unsuccessfully). Let me explain a little better, the primary reason that modern music is so difficult to parse, even for the musically trained, is usually due to the fact that they aren't familiar with the syntax or grammar of these ideas around the theory and presentation of a work.

99.99% of people know and understand functional harmony because that's what the popular genres do on a daily basis, but when a composer develops their own system (Messiaen and Carter come to mind, though there a plethora of others), or diverges from that system further and further, it becomes harder to understand that music on the most basic of levels. Is this something that we are constantly considering and asking of ourselves? Short answer, yes.

As a rather obvious though effective example, did you ever study post-tonal analysis, deal with matricies, tone rows, hexachordal combinatoriality, klangfarbenmelodie, total serialism, or any other technique developed around this school of thought? If you didn't, how can you then fully understand that music and appreciate it? It took me more than 3 years after steeping myself in that theoretical world before I actually started to properly hear the relationships in real time and derive enjoyment from that genre. Some of it is still incredibly dense, and some I would consider poorly written, but once you understand how the thematic material, motives, and gestural ideas work in that setting, you can begin to understand whats going on. Again, this will take years to develop, and you need to actually try to do some kind of application here or it won't sink in. If it's not your cup of tea then fine, but you cannot simply discredit what incredibly brilliant people have done just because its not common practice functional harmony and easy to digest.

Another more modern example would be Spectralist techniques. I find them to be beautiful and provocative processes, and yes I like this music quite a bit, both from a theoretical and an aesthetic standpoint, but its basic principles are founded on formant analysis and natural harmonic spectra which require at least a certain level of knowledge before you can actually hear those relationships. Is it difficult to hear, depends on how estute your ears are. Is it still, at least in a micro sense, organized and treated the way Beethoven or Bach is organized? You bet (though its hard to hear). The overall principles are the same, even if the language is different.

tldr, the difficulty that people have with modern music is their unfamiliarity with its language and its underlying processes, and why many people do not grasp it or think that it is music. Art music isn't supposed to be mindless music after all, that's why we call it art in the first place.

Edit: Not all modern music is the same either. I would suggest you look in to composers such as Nico Muhly, Michael Torke, Steve Reich, John Adams, John Corigliano, and Arvo Pärt as they are all very approachable composers (some of these guys I'm sure you know already).
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