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On January 27 2013 18:40 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2013 18:14 Ianuus wrote:
I don't think you should turn down opportunities vaguely related to your field just because you "don't like" that subfield. I mean, sure, if you're busy finishing your novel then that's understandable, but if you have the time to spare, why not learn how to non-fiction with your brother? Swallow your pride of being handed things, and of the superiority of your chosen genre, and work on something which will give you a different perspective on how to write.
Also, I have the same thing with (Asian) parents too. I guess it comes about as a part of Confusian culture where parents think they are inherently superior to their children (and are entitled to decide their life for them) just because they're the parents. Just ignore the haters and keep on truckin'. It's not about superiority of one genre over the other. It's about liking what you write. If you don't like what you write -- which is 100% going to be the case if you're writing a genre you don't care about -- then why will anyone else like your writing? This is why most published authors say that you should always write what you enjoy. Doing otherwise will feel like pulling teeth, and novel-writing's already a taxing enough trial of endurance. No need to make it even more soul-draining.
Hm, as a reader, I've always been able to enjoy beautiful writing no matter what genre it was. Good writing is good writing, and I assumed that a writer should be able to enjoy writing well outside the confines of genre. Maybe it doesn't work that way? I've never really tried the writing thing.
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So the real question the rest of us asians need to know is if you had to play the violin or piano. I got stuck with violin, my brother piano. My sister had it the worst: she had to play both. >_<
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On January 27 2013 18:40 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2013 18:14 Ianuus wrote:
I don't think you should turn down opportunities vaguely related to your field just because you "don't like" that subfield. I mean, sure, if you're busy finishing your novel then that's understandable, but if you have the time to spare, why not learn how to non-fiction with your brother? Swallow your pride of being handed things, and of the superiority of your chosen genre, and work on something which will give you a different perspective on how to write.
Also, I have the same thing with (Asian) parents too. I guess it comes about as a part of Confusian culture where parents think they are inherently superior to their children (and are entitled to decide their life for them) just because they're the parents. Just ignore the haters and keep on truckin'. It's not about superiority of one genre over the other. It's about liking what you write. If you don't like what you write -- which is 100% going to be the case if you're writing a genre you don't care about -- then why will anyone else like your writing? This is why most published authors say that you should always write what you enjoy. Doing otherwise will feel like pulling teeth, and novel-writing's already a taxing enough trial of endurance. No need to make it even more soul-draining.
Yes! babylon has it exactly. Good fiction needs to be genuine, The writer has to really love what they're writing, the world, the characters, etc. If they don't, you end up with pulpy generic crap. And yes, it is immensely soul-draining. I tried to write a novel idea once that I wasn't in love with but my agent thought was great and it turned out to be one of the most horrible train wrecks ever.
Also, writing is not like blacksmithing or baking or other sorts of mechanical crafts. It doesn't operate in quite the same way because writing comes from an intensely personal place. Now you CAN be a very mechanical, volume-driven writer and that's what they call a hack, but it won't do you or your craft any good.
The reason for that is probably because there's no one right way to write, so practicing nonfiction to "learn" how to do it is useless because everyone has their own style of doing non-fic anyway. Plus, I'm already well aware of how to write in the nonfic genre and have a few pieces published in literary journals. It's just not what I want to do right now. When I first started as a writer, say the first 2-3 years in college, I experimented in a ton of different genres and mediums and yes it definitely did help my writing. In fact, my first publication was a non-fic memoir short story, but again, it's just not what I want to do.
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On January 27 2013 19:34 Burrfoot wrote:
So the real question the rest of us asians need to know is if you had to play the violin or piano. I got stuck with violin, my brother piano. My sister had it the worst: she had to play both. >_<
Lol, my mom was kind of a nutjob... I had to play piano, violin, competitive swimming, high diving, ice skating, kung fu, Kumon, basketball, and tennis. As kids, she was super worried me and my brothers would end up nerdy, weak Asian kids, so she put us into a ridiculous amount of sports. We literally got up to go to school at 4:30-5 AM each morning and wouldn't get home until 9 or sometimes 10PM at night. Then we'd eat dinner in the car on the way back from our last activity -__-.
Oh and then because I was half-insane from all these compulsory activities when all I really wanted to do was read fantasy and game, I would go home and stay up till 1 or 2 AM reading/playing Star Control or Escape from Monkey Island. I had perpetual raccoon eyes as a kid lol and I constantly slept in class. And this was like elementary school I would be sleeping in class or playing hooky to sleep on a bench.
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On January 27 2013 15:24 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2013 15:23 Jerubaal wrote:
I was struck by the contradictions in the first part of that review. It portrayed your brother as having a life filled with rap music, rebellion and petty crime. Oh by the way, he got into law school too. I'm pretty sure none of those things got him into law school, but the studying, homework and paying attention in class wasn't so sexy I guess. three cheers for postmodernity t.t
Yes... I'm not a fan of the MSM and it's "literary" sphere... Sure sells a lot of books but IMO it's selling to people I have no desire to communicate with. The way I feel about modern society, its love of soundbites, its obsession with cult of personality, and its famous because you're famous phenomena is that "the only winning move is not to play."
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On January 27 2013 12:32 c0ldfusion wrote:
Good read. Good luck with your writing dude. I've passed by your brother's restaurant - will have to give it a try one of these days.
Let me know what you think if you do go c0ld! I'll pass the word along 
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On January 27 2013 22:26 SamsungStar wrote:"the only winning move is not to play."
Huizi said to Zhuangzi, "This old tree is so crooked and rough that it is useless for lumber. In the same way, your teachings have no practical use."
Zhuangzi replied, "This tree may be useless as lumber, but you could rest in the gentle shade of its big branches or admire its rustic character. It only seems useless to you because you want to turn it into something else and don't know how to appreciate it for what it is. My teachings are like this."
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On January 28 2013 05:01 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2013 22:26 SamsungStar wrote:"the only winning move is not to play." Show nested quote +
Huizi said to Zhuangzi, "This old tree is so crooked and rough that it is useless for lumber. In the same way, your teachings have no practical use."
Zhuangzi replied, "This tree may be useless as lumber, but you could rest in the gentle shade of its big branches or admire its rustic character. It only seems useless to you because you want to turn it into something else and don't know how to appreciate it for what it is. My teachings are like this."
...That's not a very good analogy. I appreciate it for what it is. That's why I'm staying the hell away from it.
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You posted a story about not rejecting things and learning to use them in different ways in response to a post I wrote about not wanting to deal with the MSM and its marketing gimmicks. I responded by saying I am aware that there is more than one way of dealing with the MSM but none of them are worth a damn. That's why I stay the hell away from it. I don't really like the story you posted because it's flawed in how generic it is.
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Are you calling zhuangzi generic? Fighting words. zhuangzi is the original.
what is the msm though?
you are interpreting this not how i meant, however (or how zhuangzi meant). The point is that zhuangzi advocates the virtues of uselessness and non-participation in the trivial chaos of secular affairs. He would agree with you (and the computer in that movie) that "the only winning move is not to play."
edit: that is, "wanting to turn it into something else" is, apropos our conversation, the desire to turn literature into commodity.
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>sam!zdat: MSM = mainstream media, I believe.
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On January 28 2013 07:17 sam!zdat wrote:
Are you calling zhuangzi generic? Fighting words. zhuangzi is the original.
what is the msm though?
you are interpreting this not how i meant, however (or how zhuangzi meant). The point is that zhuangzi advocates the virtues of uselessness and non-participation in the trivial chaos of secular affairs. He would agree with you that "the only winning move is not to play."
Yeah, I like Zhuangzi quite a lot too . MSM = mainstream media. And yeah, that's exactly it. The trivial chaos of secular affairs is what I can't stand. Well, more the trivial lies and image-based garbage secular affairs like to concern themselves with.
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Obviously MSM = men who have sex with men. Jeez, how do you guys not know this????
On January 27 2013 22:26 SamsungStar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2013 15:24 sam!zdat wrote:On January 27 2013 15:23 Jerubaal wrote:
I was struck by the contradictions in the first part of that review. It portrayed your brother as having a life filled with rap music, rebellion and petty crime. Oh by the way, he got into law school too. I'm pretty sure none of those things got him into law school, but the studying, homework and paying attention in class wasn't so sexy I guess.
His memoir is calculated to make ripples in the busy food blogosphere.
three cheers for postmodernity t.t Yes... I'm not a fan of the MSM and it's "literary" sphere... Sure sells a lot of books but IMO it's selling to people I have no desire to communicate with. The way I feel about modern society, its love of soundbites, its obsession with cult of personality, and its famous because you're famous phenomena is that "the only winning move is not to play."
It is a little bit funny, because most people would say that the fantasy/SF genre is no better than MSM and its literature given how well fantasy/SF can be adapted into MSM to make the big bucks. (In fact, one might even say that the "dream" of a lot of writers is to see their books get adapted for the big screen ....)
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On January 28 2013 07:26 babylon wrote:Obviously MSM = men who have sex with men. Jeez, how do you guys not know this???? Show nested quote +On January 27 2013 22:26 SamsungStar wrote:On January 27 2013 15:24 sam!zdat wrote:On January 27 2013 15:23 Jerubaal wrote:
I was struck by the contradictions in the first part of that review. It portrayed your brother as having a life filled with rap music, rebellion and petty crime. Oh by the way, he got into law school too. I'm pretty sure none of those things got him into law school, but the studying, homework and paying attention in class wasn't so sexy I guess.
His memoir is calculated to make ripples in the busy food blogosphere.
three cheers for postmodernity t.t Yes... I'm not a fan of the MSM and it's "literary" sphere... Sure sells a lot of books but IMO it's selling to people I have no desire to communicate with. The way I feel about modern society, its love of soundbites, its obsession with cult of personality, and its famous because you're famous phenomena is that "the only winning move is not to play." It is a little bit funny, because most people would say that the fantasy/SF genre is no better than MSM and its literature given how well fantasy/SF can be adapted into MSM to make the big bucks. (In fact, one might even say that the "dream" of a lot of writers is to see their books get adapted for the big screen ....)
Yeah, but here's the thing, F/SF is honest in what it's selling. A lot of mainstream media books are not. Like Sarah Palin's memoir. That is not an honest book. Or some drug addict's story of redemption, when he was never a drug addict. They're shitty books that get peddled around the MSM circuit and become an overnight sensation for their supposed merits, which don't actually exist. But because everyone else starts chiming in that it's true, everyone rushes out to buy a copy. Just because a writer's book turns into a movie doesn't mean it bought into or relied on the MSM and its hype machine. Most times, it's the total opposite. Some movie director/writer reads a novel they really like, calls up the writer's agent, and asks to reserve the rights etc. That's why you see some less popular/obscure books get made into movies now and then.
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Yeah, I understand what you're saying. Just pointing out that it's often the case that people think in such a way, especially when you have, mm, books like Eragon and Twilight hitting the market. Though even those are, I suppose, honest in their own ways.
At some point though, I imagine that you (and any other published writer, I suppose) will have to deal with the fact that the books you put out may not be books you want to put out. It is not quite "selling out," but depending on the amount of external pressure people put on you, your writing may not in fact be as "honest" as it is when you first publish. I know a writer who's still trying to reconcile the fact that what she wants to write about is not what most readers are interested in reading and that she will probably need to "violate" the integrity of her story if she actually wants to get it published. But this is common in all forms of writing, except maybe academic writing (which is both some of the most deceitful and some of the most truthful writing you'll ever find out there).
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On January 28 2013 07:47 babylon wrote:
except maybe academic writing
Academic writing has a different problem, which is "publish or perish." Whereas fiction has the problem of "changing the writing to fit the needs of publishing", academic writing has the problem of "you just need to publish stuff, so who cares if it's nothing but mediocre obscurantism"
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Yeah, I mean, each writer has their own personal struggle. Sometimes they're lucky and their personal taste cleaves closer to what most people enjoy. Sometimes, they have very alternative tastes and they run into the problems your friend is facing. But most times, the way I feel is if people don't like my story, I'm just not writing it well enough. I won't change the message or theme of it, but I might completely change the way I went about telling the story.
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My philosophy is that you don't change your story so that people like it, you change people so that they like your story 
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Haha I've long ago given up on trying to change people. Lived with a gf for 2 years. Learned that lesson the hard way  . And I told her stories all the time...
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EPT
