EPTI'm going to gradually add thoughts and edit them. If something really sucks, I'll probably take it out or put it in spoiler section, designated as a garbage bin. If something really, really sucks, I'll just delete it so that it doesn't make anyone's eyes bleed. If something turns out to be awesome, I might give that thing its own blog or make a guide for it. This page will give me a good starting point.
Feel free to comment...but realize that this is literally a page to store my works-in-progress. That means that stuff here isn't really supposed to work, yet. I'm OK with constructive criticisms and even some debate, but keep in mind that a lot of this page is theoretical. There is a distinct reason that this this a blog, and not something in the strategy section of the forum.
For what it's worth, I'm a mid-masters Protoss. I'm trying to break into the tournament scene soon, but first I want to refine the more structured aspects of my play--build orders, midgame transitions, army composition, macro techniques, positional theory, etc.
WINGS OF LIBERTY
+ Show Spoiler [PvZ] +
Build Orders:
1Stalker FE--My standard preference:
9 pylon (by mineral line in main base)
10, 12 boost nexus
13 gate-->scout with probe. (check towers for vision of 6-8pool lings coming across map; also checking towers helps for overlord hunting/hiding buildings from potential overlord scouts)
14 rally nexus to assimilator
15 gas, rally nexus to 2nd pylon location in main base
16 pylon, boost (pretty sure this is when 3rd boost is available)
17 put 3 guys on gas (could go 2 guys for a faster nexus, I think--2 guys means 100 gas when core finishes, and plenty to keep building stalkers. Or maybe I go 2 guys on gas initially, then put the third on after I get 2 probes per patch.
18 Core (still building stuff in main base)
-If- no early pool, boost probes (4th boost? or is this 3rd? Gotta double check). If it is, check deviations below.
Go to 21 probes and build a Stalker/start WG tech, and boost stalker. Should have 16 on minerals, 3 on gas, 1 scout probe hiding on the map, 1 builder probe rallied to natural. Cut probes for a bit.
23 Nexus, queue second stalker
25 Pylon at low ground to start wall-off, 2nd Gas in main, resume probes
27+ Add on 1-3 gates, 0-1 SG, 0-1 Forge, 0-1 Twilight Council. After first 2 stalkers, build a sentry (if so inclined), and then cut units for a while to power up. Standard follow-up should be 2 more gates (so 3 total) and a SG, which is safest in case the zerg does some kind of stupid 2-base cheese.
Deviations/variations:
-If an early pool is scouted, the best response is to cut one probe, get a zealot and boost it, get another zealot if necessary, get that stalker out, and then add a second gate and 3rd pylon. Then rally across the map and keep making units, and pile on the pressure.
-If gas/pool, I think going Stalker-Nexus is still fine, but maybe I should be thinking about being more careful because gas/pool often means 6 initial lings. So perhaps I should get that zealot against that opening. I do think that powering up gates for a wall is the best way to handle speedling timings and busts, but it's just a matter of what specifics I should do to get there. Note to self: test that more.
-I think Hatch first into pool+gas is probably the zerg's proper response to seeing no FFE, and I also think that it's fine from the toss perspective of the opening game. The whole point is that the drone count is low for a while, and they still have to build that gas and mine from it with 3 drones for almost a minute, which means usually a later third hatch. My goal from there should be to follow up with some sort of pressure that can kill queens
-If the zerg sends 6 lings across the map instead of 4 with pool first, a zealot is necessary. So I need to be checking the ling count as they leave the z's base, not hiding the probe/checking the third. Whether or not he takes a third is irrelevant for that moment--I can check that with my probe after seeing the lings, or later with a stalker.
Midgame:
My tech transition should go like this:
-SG-->about 6 phoenixes in total; more than that is overkill
-Go up to 3 gases and add a Forge
-Take third base behind SG pressure (and potential warp-in pressure)
-Add on 2 Robos with the third and take 4th gas in natural
-Add second Forge and TC to time with 1/1 being done; get charge and 2/2
-Add 3 more gates to total 6 and power out 2 immortals at a time and a bunch of zealots
-Add on 3 additional gates beyond that, to go up to 9 in total (3 per base).
-Go bash the zerg up with this army, while he's on lair tech.
When third base gets saturated fully, this leads to the
Lategame:
-As third finishes being saturated (mineral patches), take 5th and 6th gases and start +1 air weapons.
-Obviously start 3/3 for ground when 2/2 finishes
-When the 6 geyser income kicks in, add fleet beacon and 2 SGs. Get +2 and range, then start pumping out phoenixes 3 at a time.
-Go hit a timing or at least do some heavy harassment, since he probably has a bunch of spines but very few spores.
-Take a 4th behind this, and start Carrier production. Carrier timings are usually at 3 carriers and +2 air weapons, or 6 carriers and +3 air weapons (and probably +1 shields, too).
-As 4th finishes and going up to 8 gases, obviously want to go up to 12-15 gates now, and then add on a 3rd Robo and go up to 5-6 stargates. This way, can remax with the right army--not just a bunch of shitty gateway units
-Take a 5th before natural dries out. Keep the money rolling in.
Other thoughts:
-Probably a good idea to gtfo with phoenixes before infestors start hatching. The exception to this is if I can kill like 8 overlords and there's just no way they can build the infestors because their supply is in the red. There is also the option to go up to a high gate count and hit a timing based upon trading phoenixes for the majority of the infestors' energy, then following it up with a big attack while the zerg has very little mana left over.
-I think that the most natural AoE to tech first is Archons, since they're fast enough to keep up with the chargelots/phoenixes, and I honestly don't need any AoE in the midgame, with that composition. I think the second-best is Storm, especially coming out of a (speed?!) prism.
-Colossi are kind of bad, though, because the zerg is inclined to mass corruptors anyways...and unlike the phoenixes, they can't just flee the scene against corruptors. And Archons/Storm can both at least help shoot down corruptors, whereas Colossi just make my Carriers safer against infested terrans only...and Colossi are really supply-intensive, on top of all of this. Seems like I can (should?!) leave the heat rays at home, with this style.
-I don't really understand why players will go for a hive timing with a mass of stalkers. I mean, I get the idea that it's a giant-ass blink all-in, but...the zerg's composition is primarily spine crawler-infestor. Stalkers suck against that. At least with Colossi, they make some sense because they're a siege unit that hits from range. Personally, I think the best unit for pushing into spine/infestor is the immortal. Immortals are designed to kill armored units and structures. That's part of why I go double robo off of 3 base; it forces the zerg to have more than just spines for defense. All I really need, beyond that, is zealot (and maybe some phoenix) support to deal with the infested terrans...but at this point., that's getting way easier because I'm already a double forge guy.
1Stalker FE--My standard preference:
9 pylon (by mineral line in main base)
10, 12 boost nexus
13 gate-->scout with probe. (check towers for vision of 6-8pool lings coming across map; also checking towers helps for overlord hunting/hiding buildings from potential overlord scouts)
14 rally nexus to assimilator
15 gas, rally nexus to 2nd pylon location in main base
16 pylon, boost (pretty sure this is when 3rd boost is available)
17 put 3 guys on gas (could go 2 guys for a faster nexus, I think--2 guys means 100 gas when core finishes, and plenty to keep building stalkers. Or maybe I go 2 guys on gas initially, then put the third on after I get 2 probes per patch.
18 Core (still building stuff in main base)
-If- no early pool, boost probes (4th boost? or is this 3rd? Gotta double check). If it is, check deviations below.
Go to 21 probes and build a Stalker/start WG tech, and boost stalker. Should have 16 on minerals, 3 on gas, 1 scout probe hiding on the map, 1 builder probe rallied to natural. Cut probes for a bit.
23 Nexus, queue second stalker
25 Pylon at low ground to start wall-off, 2nd Gas in main, resume probes
27+ Add on 1-3 gates, 0-1 SG, 0-1 Forge, 0-1 Twilight Council. After first 2 stalkers, build a sentry (if so inclined), and then cut units for a while to power up. Standard follow-up should be 2 more gates (so 3 total) and a SG, which is safest in case the zerg does some kind of stupid 2-base cheese.
Deviations/variations:
-If an early pool is scouted, the best response is to cut one probe, get a zealot and boost it, get another zealot if necessary, get that stalker out, and then add a second gate and 3rd pylon. Then rally across the map and keep making units, and pile on the pressure.
-If gas/pool, I think going Stalker-Nexus is still fine, but maybe I should be thinking about being more careful because gas/pool often means 6 initial lings. So perhaps I should get that zealot against that opening. I do think that powering up gates for a wall is the best way to handle speedling timings and busts, but it's just a matter of what specifics I should do to get there. Note to self: test that more.
-I think Hatch first into pool+gas is probably the zerg's proper response to seeing no FFE, and I also think that it's fine from the toss perspective of the opening game. The whole point is that the drone count is low for a while, and they still have to build that gas and mine from it with 3 drones for almost a minute, which means usually a later third hatch. My goal from there should be to follow up with some sort of pressure that can kill queens
-If the zerg sends 6 lings across the map instead of 4 with pool first, a zealot is necessary. So I need to be checking the ling count as they leave the z's base, not hiding the probe/checking the third. Whether or not he takes a third is irrelevant for that moment--I can check that with my probe after seeing the lings, or later with a stalker.
Midgame:
My tech transition should go like this:
-SG-->about 6 phoenixes in total; more than that is overkill
-Go up to 3 gases and add a Forge
-Take third base behind SG pressure (and potential warp-in pressure)
-Add on 2 Robos with the third and take 4th gas in natural
-Add second Forge and TC to time with 1/1 being done; get charge and 2/2
-Add 3 more gates to total 6 and power out 2 immortals at a time and a bunch of zealots
-Add on 3 additional gates beyond that, to go up to 9 in total (3 per base).
-Go bash the zerg up with this army, while he's on lair tech.
When third base gets saturated fully, this leads to the
Lategame:
-As third finishes being saturated (mineral patches), take 5th and 6th gases and start +1 air weapons.
-Obviously start 3/3 for ground when 2/2 finishes
-When the 6 geyser income kicks in, add fleet beacon and 2 SGs. Get +2 and range, then start pumping out phoenixes 3 at a time.
-Go hit a timing or at least do some heavy harassment, since he probably has a bunch of spines but very few spores.
-Take a 4th behind this, and start Carrier production. Carrier timings are usually at 3 carriers and +2 air weapons, or 6 carriers and +3 air weapons (and probably +1 shields, too).
-As 4th finishes and going up to 8 gases, obviously want to go up to 12-15 gates now, and then add on a 3rd Robo and go up to 5-6 stargates. This way, can remax with the right army--not just a bunch of shitty gateway units
-Take a 5th before natural dries out. Keep the money rolling in.
Other thoughts:
-Probably a good idea to gtfo with phoenixes before infestors start hatching. The exception to this is if I can kill like 8 overlords and there's just no way they can build the infestors because their supply is in the red. There is also the option to go up to a high gate count and hit a timing based upon trading phoenixes for the majority of the infestors' energy, then following it up with a big attack while the zerg has very little mana left over.
-I think that the most natural AoE to tech first is Archons, since they're fast enough to keep up with the chargelots/phoenixes, and I honestly don't need any AoE in the midgame, with that composition. I think the second-best is Storm, especially coming out of a (speed?!) prism.
-Colossi are kind of bad, though, because the zerg is inclined to mass corruptors anyways...and unlike the phoenixes, they can't just flee the scene against corruptors. And Archons/Storm can both at least help shoot down corruptors, whereas Colossi just make my Carriers safer against infested terrans only...and Colossi are really supply-intensive, on top of all of this. Seems like I can (should?!) leave the heat rays at home, with this style.
-I don't really understand why players will go for a hive timing with a mass of stalkers. I mean, I get the idea that it's a giant-ass blink all-in, but...the zerg's composition is primarily spine crawler-infestor. Stalkers suck against that. At least with Colossi, they make some sense because they're a siege unit that hits from range. Personally, I think the best unit for pushing into spine/infestor is the immortal. Immortals are designed to kill armored units and structures. That's part of why I go double robo off of 3 base; it forces the zerg to have more than just spines for defense. All I really need, beyond that, is zealot (and maybe some phoenix) support to deal with the infested terrans...but at this point., that's getting way easier because I'm already a double forge guy.
+ Show Spoiler [PvT] +
Build Orders:
I don't like the MC expand. I think going Zealot+Stalker into expand is too slow/conservative for the match-up. I could go just Stalker into Expo, but then I have issues with potential EBay blocks. I know that the MC expand is considered the standard because it's safe, but it's also even with a rax expand and it can be even with a CC first with the right reaction. But I just don't like that I have to build 4 food of expensive units, when the terran gets to open 1 marine into CC and then drop his bunker for defense. If terran can get away with that, I shouldn't have to build a Zealot AND a shitty stalker before my Nexus. I don't like this middle-of-road approach.
So, what else could I do? This is the spectrum of PvT openers:
Nexus First
13 Gate 17 Nexus-->Scout (Parting/Naniwa Opening)
Gate-Core-Nexus with or without units (MC Expand and variations); what I'm trying to avoid
Gate-2x Gas-Core-Nexus with 2 guys on each gas (a la Naniwa in GSL); threatens tech
1 Gate double gas into tech--->expand late, but kill workers and have serious map control to make up for this
+ Show Spoiler [Nexus First] +
The standard for this is to 9 scout and cut probes at 15-17, go Nexus, Gate, Gas, Pylon, and then resume probes. I don't really see the point of Nexus first if you're going to cut probes that early. I guess 17 makes sense, since it's 2 workers per patch...but if we're going to play like zergs, why stop the drone production in the first place?
So my thought process is to open like this:
9 pylon-->scout, Chrono probes constantly from 10 on
When I get into the Terran main, if it's normal gasless FE play, I build a second pylon at 15-16 supply and continuously pump probes out
18 Nexus, without cutting workers. Use the probe that builds the Nexus to patrol my natural/follow the scouting SCV so I can deal with a potential bunker rush
20 Gate
21 Double Gas
22 Forge
25(ish) Core and Zealot; Nexus is done.
Maynard a bunch of workers to natural, so there are a bunch of them to fight together if necessary
26 +1 Armor
Pylon
Stalker? or Sentry. WG research, obviously
So against a gasless FE, I have +1 armor by the 7 minute mark or earlier, I have a lot of scouting intel, I have a big worker count and fast expansion, and the only thing that's really delayed is my earlier units.
Deviations/variations:
If I scout gas with the 9 scout, I don't go Nexus first. Instead, my goal should be to drop a gate reactively, get 2 gases, and then do some kind of 2gate tech build. But what tech is best? For dealing with a 2rax, all I really need is forcefields while I power out a good unit count. Against the 1-1-1, I need a robo eventually, but I really want a Stargate...phoenixes are the best answer to banshee play, they can punish hellion play (especially drops), and they can let me scout what's going on. So I want to go 2gate SG into a delayed Nexus, PvP style? Seems reasonable. I can put 1 or 2 of them on patrol over drop pathway(s), then send the 2nd or 3rd to the terran base to scout. Ideally, I build a Robo as a response to seeing tech lab on a starport, but maybe I should just build a Robo anyways...I will have to test this.
So the build order for that would be:
14-15 Gate
15 Gas
16 Pylon
17 Gas
18 Core
So what do I produce from the gate, when do I get my Stargate, and when do I get my second gate? Ideally, I just get the SG right when the core finishes and build a couple zealots. Or maybe I get a gas before the first Gate, pushing it to 15-16 supply? Then I have gas stockpiling, gas/pool style, and I can time the SG earlier. Reminds me of the old gas-before-gate that can produce a fast DT rush through a gas steal in PvP or PvZ.
I think I should probably have 2 Zealots and a Sentry to guard my ramp, and then just add phoenixes and 1-2 extra gates, timed to pop with WG tech.
So my thought process is to open like this:
9 pylon-->scout, Chrono probes constantly from 10 on
When I get into the Terran main, if it's normal gasless FE play, I build a second pylon at 15-16 supply and continuously pump probes out
18 Nexus, without cutting workers. Use the probe that builds the Nexus to patrol my natural/follow the scouting SCV so I can deal with a potential bunker rush
20 Gate
21 Double Gas
22 Forge
25(ish) Core and Zealot; Nexus is done.
Maynard a bunch of workers to natural, so there are a bunch of them to fight together if necessary
26 +1 Armor
Pylon
Stalker? or Sentry. WG research, obviously
So against a gasless FE, I have +1 armor by the 7 minute mark or earlier, I have a lot of scouting intel, I have a big worker count and fast expansion, and the only thing that's really delayed is my earlier units.
Deviations/variations:
If I scout gas with the 9 scout, I don't go Nexus first. Instead, my goal should be to drop a gate reactively, get 2 gases, and then do some kind of 2gate tech build. But what tech is best? For dealing with a 2rax, all I really need is forcefields while I power out a good unit count. Against the 1-1-1, I need a robo eventually, but I really want a Stargate...phoenixes are the best answer to banshee play, they can punish hellion play (especially drops), and they can let me scout what's going on. So I want to go 2gate SG into a delayed Nexus, PvP style? Seems reasonable. I can put 1 or 2 of them on patrol over drop pathway(s), then send the 2nd or 3rd to the terran base to scout. Ideally, I build a Robo as a response to seeing tech lab on a starport, but maybe I should just build a Robo anyways...I will have to test this.
So the build order for that would be:
14-15 Gate
15 Gas
16 Pylon
17 Gas
18 Core
So what do I produce from the gate, when do I get my Stargate, and when do I get my second gate? Ideally, I just get the SG right when the core finishes and build a couple zealots. Or maybe I get a gas before the first Gate, pushing it to 15-16 supply? Then I have gas stockpiling, gas/pool style, and I can time the SG earlier. Reminds me of the old gas-before-gate that can produce a fast DT rush through a gas steal in PvP or PvZ.
I think I should probably have 2 Zealots and a Sentry to guard my ramp, and then just add phoenixes and 1-2 extra gates, timed to pop with WG tech.
+ Show Spoiler [SG Opening] +
I will definitely need to work on this, but I think a good place to start is the HerO 2gate SG PvP build, which is:
9 Pylon
13 Gateway
15 Two Assimilators (Only Mine With Two Probes)
17 Pylon
17 Cybernetics Core (Slight Probe Cut)
18 Zealot (One Probe More In Each Gas, For a Total of Three)
22 Warpgate Research (Two Chronoboosts)
22 Sentry
25 Pylon
27 Zealot
29 Stargate
30 Gateway
31 Sentry
32 Pylon
34 Phoenix (Chronoboost)
36 Robotics Facility (Second Phoenix Immediately After)
I will start with this, and then see about changes I could make to accommodate for playing against Terran instead of against Protoss. My goal should be to build the minimum number of gateway units and the minimum number of gateways, and just go for enough to hold:
-Proxy barracks play
-2Rax aggro/early bio move-outs
-Hellions, both dropped and reactored to the front door
My instinct is that a zealot or 2 and a sentry should be enough to hold a 2rax, then I get phoenixes (or a void?!) and hunt those shitty bio units down on the map. A void seems better for holding scv train allins. Either way, I want to get phoenixes out, then expand. If there's banshee play, I want a Robo. Maybe if it's a banshee build, I could do a followup allin instead of expanding, if terran loses a couple banshees and has a shitty army? Hmm.
9 Pylon
13 Gateway
15 Two Assimilators (Only Mine With Two Probes)
17 Pylon
17 Cybernetics Core (Slight Probe Cut)
18 Zealot (One Probe More In Each Gas, For a Total of Three)
22 Warpgate Research (Two Chronoboosts)
22 Sentry
25 Pylon
27 Zealot
29 Stargate
30 Gateway
31 Sentry
32 Pylon
34 Phoenix (Chronoboost)
36 Robotics Facility (Second Phoenix Immediately After)
I will start with this, and then see about changes I could make to accommodate for playing against Terran instead of against Protoss. My goal should be to build the minimum number of gateway units and the minimum number of gateways, and just go for enough to hold:
-Proxy barracks play
-2Rax aggro/early bio move-outs
-Hellions, both dropped and reactored to the front door
My instinct is that a zealot or 2 and a sentry should be enough to hold a 2rax, then I get phoenixes (or a void?!) and hunt those shitty bio units down on the map. A void seems better for holding scv train allins. Either way, I want to get phoenixes out, then expand. If there's banshee play, I want a Robo. Maybe if it's a banshee build, I could do a followup allin instead of expanding, if terran loses a couple banshees and has a shitty army? Hmm.
Deviations/variations:
Midgame:
Lategame:
Other thoughts:
-I like Phoenixes for punishing banshees, hellions, drop play, and any other kind of small-squadron aggression. My goal is to figure out how to open Phoenix to handle the 1-1-1, to see if I can successfully make Phoenixes work against 2rax openings, and then to see how and when I can time SG tech to be good against standard bio play. I used to go FE-->Robo and some gates-->Colossus-->Phoenix+Colossus. However, I'm starting to feel comfortable enough to just cut the Colossus plan and work on using Phoenixes and upgraded chargelots to hunt armies down around the map--which literally translates to map control. The robo would only be for detection, prism, and maybe a number of immortals. I have to really make sure I'm active on the map, though...I need to engage in the open from multiple directions, just like speedlings would do against bio pushes in ZvT.
-Ultimately, I really do want to just play the match-up like it's ZvT in the opening--Nexus first, defend the bunker rush with probes, and then keep droning and powering until I need to build an army to shut down something moving across the map.
+ Show Spoiler [PvP] +
Build Orders:
I really hate the 3 stalker rush. It's not my style, at all. I don't like getting shoehorned into building a bunch of stalkers in the early game. I would rather find a way to make zealot/sentry and tech work, instead.
Deviations/variations:
Midgame:
Lategame:
Other thoughts:
-I really like DTs in the early game because they can punish greedy SG openers, they can shut down WG rushes, and then they also are great against phoenixes because I can turn them into archons...and phoenix builds are all about zealots on the ground. So, maybe what I should be doing is just going directly into HTs instead, which means I can cut to the source and have cheaper archons. My questions are: Does feedback work on Phoenixes? Can I also make storm work for big battles, since I'm naturally too gas-starved for Colossi? And, how does this work against blink stalkers on blink-favored maps? Maybe I go counter-blink, instead, if charge isn't good enough to deal with blink on whatever particular map it is.
-To reiterate and to remind myself, storm is a very good ability and it's less mineral-intensive than Colossi w/range, so I should look into a technique for getting storm on 2base in this match-up. It might not kill much of anything outright, but it still does clean half the total health+shields off a stalker/zealot. Perhaps as a zoning tool.... I gotta look into this, more.
-I also wonder about storm dropping workers, in a midgame where I'm in HT tech and my opponent is in Robo without Stargate, so I can feasibly get that prism to a mineral line and do massive damage before being noticed. Then I get all-inned because I'm up 20 workers, and I find a way to beat that with a big flank, concaves, and some storm(s) on the middle of the deathball. That seems like a good plan, to start.
-----------------
+ Show Spoiler [Update Log] +
1/15/2013--Clarified that this was WoL; clarified my ladder rank at the time.
1/17/2013--Added a note to PvZ thoughts section; added a bunch of thoughts to the PvT Build Order section. Not really sure what my preference is for PvT openings, yet, but at least I'm putting some detailed thoughts on the table.
+ Show Spoiler [Credit/Thanks] +
AFKing--reminded me to clarify WoL
sputnic--reminded me to clarify my ladder rank.
sputnic--reminded me to clarify my ladder rank.
+ Show Spoiler [Trash] +
This is where I plan to keep crappy ideas that aren't so egregiously shitty that they must be forgotten
